# Ask the (atheist) Hindu **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071 "2005-06-13T13:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/21 "2005-06-13T18:40:55Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Depends where you are and who you are, to my understanding. In some areas like Kerala, Karantaka and Gujarat, Hindus, mostly but not exclusively Dalits ( but almost never high-caste Brahmins ), do more or less commonly eat beef. > > - Tamerlane But there’s a big difference between eating beef and being allowed to eat beef, right? Or are you saying the Hinduism they follow doesn’t forbid it? I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised, Hindusim comes in as many colors as the rainbow. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/22 "2005-06-13T18:44:16Z")
> [@litost](#): > > **Anaamika** : interestingly enough, the words Dharma and Karma have multiple meanings. While you are right in talking of Karma as a “reap what you sow” concept, it’s also talked about as one path to salvation. Karma, in that context, refers to selfless work not focused on results. > > As for Dharma, while “duty” is one interpretation, I have actually seen it used more often in the context of righteousness. Dharm vs. Adharm - battle of right vs. wrong, morality vs. immorality etc. Right at the beginning of the Bhagavad-Gita, Arjuna is confused about the Dharma of fighting his own brothers. Don’t be worried about confusing the issue. You are right about the multiple definitions of dharm. It’s not easy to translate. It is also Arjun’s dharm & duty to fight his cousins because it’s the right and moral thing to be doing. However, I can’t believe karm is the path to salvation (moksh) simply I don’t believe in moksha. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/23 "2005-06-13T18:47:16Z")
In the US, our current president and several congressional leaders make government decisions according to their Christian beliefs. If these folks were Hindu instead, how would the government be different? For example: Our AIDS-in-Africa program has gone from condom distribution to abstinence education. Our policy on gay marriage is based on Christian morality. Our leaders would prefer to outlaw abortion, and some of them want to restrict contraception. Some of our military leaders seem to see the Iraq war as Christianity vs. Islam. How would these things be done if these guys were Hindu? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/24 "2005-06-13T18:50:58Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > **Noone Special & andros** , > > The definition of Brahman that I quoted should answer your concerns. Think of the Brahman as the essence on which all existence is predicated. The Supreme Being does not have to be a personal, corporeal spirit. > > Instead of religion as “a system of behavior stemming from the belief in a Supreme Being that has mandated this behavior”, think of it as “a system of behavior stemming from the discovery of a cosmic order”, which leaves the questions of “_why this cosmic order?_” and “_from where?_” open. But then this still begs my previous question, “why is Hinduism a **religion** rather than a **philosophy**?” I realize that the boundary between the two is fuzzy with much overlap, but I still tend to associate “Religion” with “Belief in a Supreme Being” I have a feeling that there is a semantic divide here. We just aren’t using the same words in the same way. **Anaamika** , when you say that you are “culturally Hindu”, how much of this cultural identification is actually with _Hinduism_ as a philosophy/religion and how much of it is with _India_ as a place and a culture? I know that as a (cultural, ethnic) Jew and an Israeli I often find myself hard-pressed to tell the difference between the two! Dani ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/25 "2005-06-13T18:52:08Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > In the US, our current president and several congressional leaders make government decisions according to their Christian beliefs. If these folks were Hindu instead, how would the government be different? > > For example: Our AIDS-in-Africa program has gone from condom distribution to abstinence education. Our policy on gay marriage is based on Christian morality. Our leaders would prefer to outlaw abortion, and some of them want to restrict contraception. Some of our military leaders seem to see the Iraq war as Christianity vs. Islam. > > How would these things be done if these guys were Hindu? I don’t know the answer to this question, although it’s a good one. And the reason I don’t know it, is it would be easy for me to answer from a neutral “This is Hinduism” standpoint, but from what I gather, the government in India intreprets it fairly strictly. I’d have to ask someone who lives in India and has a feel for the government there to answer how these questions have been addressed there, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/26 "2005-06-13T18:53:13Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > BTW, Hindus are supposed to be complete vegetarians. (Not vegans). Lots of people eat chicken, and fish is HUGE in the port cities, but they get very upset if you eat beef. My cousins were horrified. Where did you hear this? Hindus are not supposed to eat beef, that’s it. Brahmins are the ones who take vegetarian vows, and that’s a tiny % of Hindus. In addition, some Brahmins in Northern India, North-East, and in Kashmir eat meat. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/27 "2005-06-13T18:59:50Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > But then this still begs my previous question, “why is Hinduism a **religion** rather than a **philosophy**?” I realize that the boundary between the two is fuzzy with much overlap, but I still tend to associate “Religion” with “Belief in a Supreme Being” > > I have a feeling that there is a semantic divide here. We just aren’t using the same words in the same way. > > **Anaamika** , when you say that you are “culturally Hindu”, how much of this cultural identification is actually with _Hinduism_ as a philosophy/religion and how much of it is with _India_ as a place and a culture? I know that as a (cultural, ethnic) Jew and an Israeli I often find myself hard-pressed to tell the difference between the two! It is a philosophy because you can follow the tenets _without ever believing in a god_. I don’t know how much clearer I can make it than that, really. What’s still confusing about it? Take a look at Buddhism. It has certain tenets but no god. I take Hinduism in the same way. I don’t know how to make it clearer. When I say I am culturally Hindu, I guess I mean several things. I identify more strongly with my home country than many other Indians. I also still identify with my religion strongly…this part has been growing in strength more and more in the past few years. As I go back to my books and re-study my religion, I find answers to ways of living, even though I’m not looking for a god. I find explanations of politics, motives, etc. So mostly I think of my country, but the other side is growing, too. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/28 "2005-06-13T19:01:02Z")
> [@litost](#): > > Where did you hear this? Hindus are not supposed to eat beef, that’s it. Brahmins are the ones who take vegetarian vows, and that’s a tiny % of Hindus. In addition, some Brahmins in Northern India, North-East, and in Kashmir eat meat. Very well then. I heard it from no less than several priests, my own family, and my mom. However these are all anecdotal and I have no evidence to back it up, so I’ll retract my statement. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/29 "2005-06-13T19:08:29Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Then why so dogmatic, **Gyan**? Where? > [@Noone Special](#): > > I still tend to associate “Religion” with “Belief in a Supreme Being” Replace ‘Supreme Being’ with ‘Higher Order’ and both styles can be accomodated. All religions are philosophies. The axioms may be different. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/30 "2005-06-13T19:11:05Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Where? Yeah. I didn’t really see where you were being dogmatic, either. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/31 "2005-06-13T19:12:37Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Neuroscientist V. S. Ramachandran states better than I can what I was getting at with my question:Make any sense to you? Ramachandran seems to be tackling the concept of bodily Self, not Self as the owner of consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/32 "2005-06-13T19:17:47Z")
Do you drink alcohol? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/33 "2005-06-13T19:19:22Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > But then this still begs my previous question, “why is Hinduism a **religion** rather than a **philosophy**?” I realize that the boundary between the two is fuzzy with much overlap, but I still tend to associate “Religion” with “Belief in a Supreme Being” > > I have a feeling that there is a semantic divide here. We just aren’t using the same words in the same way. How many people do you know who would find the sentences “Hinduism is a religion.” or “Buddhism is a religion.” to be semantically problematic? Words just mean what people think they mean. Obviously, the English word “religion” is broad enough to encompass these “philosophies”. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/34 "2005-06-13T19:21:34Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > Do you drink alcohol? Yes I do, and it’s not forbidden either, as far as I know. Not supposed to drink to _excess_, but I have never heard it was forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![hawkeyejo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@hawkeyejo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawkeyejo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/35 "2005-06-13T19:32:02Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > No. > > From [The Principal Upanisads](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573925489): > > Atman is essence of individual. Brahman is essence of the Total. Actually, these are gnostically-derived concepts, so defining them rigorously, is unwise. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Atma is the manifestation of the Brahman within the individual. All threads of Hinduism aim at attaining the ultimate goal of uniting the Atma with the Brahman. One may spend one’s lifetime following rituals and worshipping idols, or may indulge in the deeper study of the philosophy of existence, the ultimate goal remains the same. ---
**Author:** ![hawkeyejo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@hawkeyejo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawkeyejo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/36 "2005-06-13T19:37:34Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Depends where you are and who you are, to my understanding. In some areas like Kerala, Karantaka and Gujarat, Hindus, mostly but not exclusively Dalits ( but almost never high-caste Brahmins ), do more or less commonly eat beef. > > - Tamerlane That seems a dubious claim. Eating beef is anathema to anyone who follows the ritualistc tenets of Hinduism, and I haven’t heard of any sects that indulge only in the philosophical aspects of it. The Rg Ved prohibits killing of cows and the Vishnu Puran says eating beef will send one to hell (someone might verify this). I will try to look up the verses myself. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/37 "2005-06-13T19:47:22Z")
> [@hawkeyejo](#): > > Correct me if I am wrong, but the Atma is the manifestation of the Brahman within the individual. Correct. They are not _identical_ concepts. ---
**Author:** ![hawkeyejo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@hawkeyejo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawkeyejo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/38 "2005-06-13T19:54:46Z")
For those people who identify following a religion with believing in a higher being, I might be able to provide some explanation. Being a good Hindu does not entail that you believe in any of the philosophies of Hinduism. It says (in my interpretation) that you should perform your duties and be a good citizen, whatever that may entail for a person in your situation. Whether you believe in a Supreme Being is immaterial. Personally speaking, I do not believe in God. I am scientifially trained and hence consider all doctrinal and ritualistic religions (which are pretty much all religions, including Hinduism) a complete waste of time. On the other hand I do not believe that what we see and hear is all there is to this universe. Hinduism gives me a way to define the intangible aspects of the cosmos and the urge to further understand the essence of life. It enables me to investigate avenues of finding those other planes. I know this sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but it is not. Unfortunately, it is hard to find words to describe these thoughts. Nonetheless, the point I am trying to make is that it is possible to be spritual in Hinduism without resorting to the tired cliche of Spiritualism = belief in some form of God. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/39 "2005-06-13T20:00:04Z")
What’s the general view on the spread of Hindu symbols and figures? Gwen Stefani gave up the bindi a few years back, but I still see shops selling finger puppets of Siva, Kali, G’nesha, and Garuda as well as Krisna lunchboxes. Apu still has his little shrine to G’nesha on the counter. How are other religions/philosophies viewed? Can you recommend a translation of the Mahabharata? I’m looking for something that doesn’t censor or change things, but hasn’t been rendered into dry and boring english. About how many flavors, sects, or what ever the correct term is are there? ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/40 "2005-06-13T20:08:14Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Where? Here > [@II Gyan II](#): > > No. > [@II Gyan II](#): > > Ramachandran seems to be tackling the concept of bodily Self, not Self as the owner of consciousness. Oh? > [@](#): > > The notion of a private self that inhabits your brain That’s not how I read it. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071.md?page=3)