# Ask the atheist psychologist who did ayuahasca yesterday. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2016, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794 "2016-08-24T09:26:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/81 "2019-08-24T20:41:42Z")
You really didnt read this thread, did you, Machinaforce? ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/82 "2019-08-24T21:15:34Z")
So, **Maastricht** , three years to the day after the OP are you still feeling benefits? Have you taken ayuahasca, regularly or not, since? Is there anything else you notice after all this time? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/83 "2019-08-25T03:16:49Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > You really didnt read this thread, did you, Machinaforce? I did, doesn’t change my response. I read what Alan Watts said, but it’s not true what he describes reality as, even if that is what it felt like to him. As for the trans formative experience, merely people getting caught up and projecting onto life. All is not well or well, it simply is. There is no purpose or grand design, it simply is. Everything else after that is just imaginative nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/84 "2019-08-25T03:21:12Z")
Also all matter is not just “energy”. I thought that hippie stuff died in the 60’s and 70’s. The bit about opposites doesn’t say anything worthwhile but the obvious, though if you want to get technical there are no opposites, just what humans decide are such things. But things do have an essence and chemical make up that makes them different from others so Watts is wrong in a sense. There was that one book he wrote where he tried to use science to show how we are the universe but ended up showing how little he understands it and second ended up showing the opposite. There is no universal consciousness being experienced subjectively, just independent ones coming from the brain. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/85 "2019-08-25T10:16:11Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > So, **Maastricht** , three years to the day after the OP are you still feeling benefits? Have you taken ayuahasca, regularly or not, since? Is there anything else you notice after all this time? Thank you for asking! The short answer is “Yes”. But I will take time to formulate a more elaborate answer and come back to you. I can tell you that I’ve gone to an ayahuasca ceremony four more times, but I chickened out at the last moment two of those times. When you know what you’re going into, it’s really not a small thing. But I had a full ceremony two more times in those three years. After the first ceremony, things improved with my husband very much. When stress hit again and I wondered if I should go to another ceremony over Christmas, my husbands response was “Yes please, do, it did us all a world of good last time”. But I chickened out of that ceremony at the last moment - like I said, when you know what you’re going in to, it is not a small thing. [There are a lot of similarities with a near death experience. My husband was disappointed I hadn’t taken ayahuasca.](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2176721-why-taking-ayahuasca-is-like-having-a-near-death-experience/) So that ceremony didn’t happen, and stress built, and there was no easy moment to plan another ceremony - and in March, I asked my husband for a divorce. I asked differently, this time, apparently, because he finally said yes and started planning to move out. Weirdly enough, once he decided to move out, all our fights stopped and we haven’t had a fight since, and it’s been two years. He stayed untill he found and bought a house he would be happy in, ( signed the papers in August) We divorced quickly, cheaply and without a hitch (we shared an on-line lawyer and spoke with the guy sitting together behind our webcam, heads pressed together, the whole thing took six weeks). Kiddo has settled in and is happy, now (ex) husband found another lady love, everything is well. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/86 "2019-08-25T20:16:21Z")
Just another case of the human imagination at work. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/87 "2019-08-25T21:48:16Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Yup. I saw God. If you seen God again in a police line-up, would you recognize him? Or did he actually have any physical human attributes? Did he wear clothes, was he even a he? _Ayuahasca:_ Never heard of such a drug before, thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/88 "2019-08-25T21:52:22Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > And being an atheist psychologist doesn’t mean much of anything when it comes to the truth of what you are trying to claim. What if she was a Buddhist? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/89 "2019-08-25T23:03:55Z")
> [@Razncain](#): > > If you seen God again in a police line-up, would you recognize him? Or did he actually have any physical human attributes? Did he wear clothes, was he even a he. IMHO, not a he. Check out post 21? Again IMHE, God is properly, in anyone in the line-up, in the observers, the space and time and acts connecting them all, and yet the part you can talk to is the part you’re most easily connected with, so, you. :: ducks and runs:: ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/90 "2019-08-25T23:34:23Z")
^^^ Okay, unless it’s a bit more esoteric, let me see if I get part of it, I could still not be following you correctly. Besides this post, I went back over post 21 you mentioned, I didn’t specifically find anything about what God looked like, but you spent time on a feeling, which I guess was God and can manifest itself in others? Like maybe the Alanis Morissette song goes, what would God be like, would he be a slob like one of us, a stranger like one of us, so are you possibly seeing his presence in all of us? Is that what you have in mind, or I’m I still a lost soul? 🙂 When you lost your atheism, did all of the arguments you had in its favor also get tossed out the window due to this experience, none of these are valid to you now? I’ve heard from many a former believer who gave up their faith due to the problem of evil, was you able to reconcile that? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/91 "2019-08-25T23:36:57Z")
The TV host, Josh Gates, did a ceremony in Brazil for one of his shows. _Destination Unknown_, I think. He barfed a lot and was physically uncomfortable, but he said it wasn’t a horrible experience, just not something that affected him in a positive way. It’s nice that for some people it’s really positive, but is there really any way of knowing with any certainty how it would affect any one individual? I barf easily, and after suffering through food poisoning a few times I think I’d pass. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/92 "2019-08-25T23:38:23Z")
> [@Razncain](#): > > ^^^ > > Okay, unless it’s a bit more esoteric, let me see if I get part of it, I could still not be following you correctly. Besides this post, I went back over post 21 you mentioned, I didn’t specifically find anything about what God looked like, but you spent time on a feeling, which I guess was God and can manifest itself in others? Like maybe the **Alanis Morissette** song goes, what would God be like, would he be a slob like one of us, a stranger like one of us, so are you possibly seeing his presence in all of us? Is that what you have in mind, or I’m I still a lost soul? 🙂 > > When you lost your atheism, did all of the arguments you had in its favor also get tossed out the window due to this experience, none of these are valid to you now? I’ve heard from many a former believer who gave up their faith due to the problem of evil, was you able to reconcile that? [nitpick] Joan Osborne [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/93 "2019-08-25T23:50:58Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > [nitpick] Joan Osborne [/nitpick] I bet you’re right, thought I heard her sing it too though, sure a lot of people giving Morissette credit for it, including on You-Tube, and also the lyrics, because I just went to get them, and found by Alanis Morissette. When does the Internet lie or ever get it wrong? 😉 > **[Alanis Morissette - What If God Was One Of Us lyrics | LyricsFreak](https://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/alanis+morissette/what+if+god+was+one+of+us_20683913.html)** > > Read or print original What If God Was One Of Us lyrics 2024 updated! If God had a name what would it be? / And would you call it to his Somebody on that site also tried to correct and give Joan the proper credit, as do others, so thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/94 "2019-08-26T00:02:58Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > The TV host, Josh Gates, did a ceremony in Brazil for one of his shows. _Destination Unknown_, I think. He barfed a lot and was physically uncomfortable, but he said it wasn’t a horrible experience, just not something that affected him in a positive way. It’s nice that for some people it’s really positive, but is there really any way of knowing with any certainty how it would affect any one individual? I barf easily, and after suffering through food poisoning a few times I think I’d pass. There are three ways to have a better shot at a worthwhile experience: 1. Be prepared. Really really follow the diet ( that helps with the physical illness and nausea). 2. Also, prepare yourself mentally. Think of it as a big deal. It actually is, as well, but building up energy and anticipation helps. Still, many people go in without much ( or any) anticipation, and much, much skeptism, and still get blown away. But approaching it like a serious deal helps. You don’t see many ( or any, really) people who have experienced it once, who approach it lightly the second time. But come back some of them do. 3. Go in for a second or third dose of ayahuasca in the ceremony. Or book a two or three day ceremony so you can go in two nights in a row. One of my ceremonies, we joined a group who had also had a ceremony the night before. Most of them looked like they had gone through the wringer. But in a beautiful way. The way ayahuasca works, if you didn’t experience much the first time, that doesn’t mean anything for a second time. I heard that in the average group of 15, about one or two people won’t experience much, or just be a little sick and bored. But those people could be hard hit the second time. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/95 "2019-08-26T00:25:06Z")
> [@Razncain](#): > > … I didn’t specifically find anything about what God looked like, but you spent time on a feeling, which I guess was God and can manifest itself in others? it is really hard to explain. Worse, when trying to explain, I sound like a loon. Or a hippie. Or a hippie loon who has taken psychedelics. 😃 Many things from religion made sense in some way, and yet, not in others. For instance, as a kid I was taught: “…the power and the glory, for ever” and when mulling over the experience afterwards, I thought: “Yeah, I can see how that description would apply and yet, sells the experience short”. God didn’t look like anything. It/We was a feeling, and more then a feeling. The few words spoken were spoken in my own voice, in my own head, to me, but with such joy and such love as I had never heard myself speak before to anyone. And there was a recursive element to it, like the choice of God to borrow my own voice for those particular words were, besides everything else, a loving way to teach me something about talking to myself and my own relation to God. > [@Razncain](#): > > When you lost your atheism, did all of the arguments you had in its favor also get tossed out the window due to this experience, none of these are valid to you now? I’ve heard from many a former believer who gave up their faith due to the problem of evil, was you able to reconcile that? This was somehow never a problem for me during or after. I still think Richard Dawkins is mostly right, but I do think that there is more to religion then Dawkins describes. The difference is not one of philosophy, or of arguments, but one of experience. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/96 "2019-08-26T00:43:34Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > There are three ways to have a better shot at a worthwhile experience: > > 1. Be prepared. Really really follow the diet ( that helps with the physical illness and nausea). > > 2. Also, prepare yourself mentally. Think of it as a big deal. It actually is, as well, but building up energy and anticipation helps. Still, many people go in without much ( or any) anticipation, and much, much skeptism, and still get blown away. But approaching it like a serious deal helps. > You don’t see many ( or any, really) people who have experienced it once, who approach it lightly the second time. But come back some of them do. > > 3. Go in for a second or third dose of ayahuasca in the ceremony. Or book a two or three day ceremony so you can go in two nights in a row. One of my ceremonies, we joined a group who had also had a ceremony the night before. Most of them looked like they had gone through the wringer. But in a beautiful way. > The way ayahuasca works, if you didn’t experience much the first time, that doesn’t mean anything for a second time. I heard that in the average group of 15, about one or two people won’t experience much, or just be a little sick and bored. But those people could be hard hit the second time. So, it’s kinda like pot. It often has a light effect on first time users, but repeated usage brings stronger results. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/97 "2019-08-26T01:42:27Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > it is really hard to explain. Worse, when trying to explain, I sound like a loon. Or a hippie. Or a hippie loon who has taken psychedelics. 😃 > Many things from religion made sense in some way, and yet, not in others. For instance, as a kid I was taught: “…the power and the glory, for ever” and when mulling over the experience afterwards, I thought: “Yeah, I can see how that description would apply and yet, sells the experience short”. > > God didn’t look like anything. It/We was a feeling, and more then a feeling. The few words spoken were spoken in my own voice, in my own head, to me, but with such joy and such love as I had never heard myself speak before to anyone. And there was a recursive element to it, like the choice of God to borrow my own voice for those particular words were, besides everything else, a loving way to teach me something about talking to myself and my own relation to God. > This was somehow never a problem for me during or after. I still think Richard Dawkins is mostly right, but I do think that there is more to religion then Dawkins describes. The difference is not one of philosophy, or of arguments, but one of experience. Still doesn’t sound like God, just more like your own imagination. Religion is more or less along the same lines, human imagination is a powerful thing. Plus I discount the notion of a god given how (in my view) only a sadist would have made life. There is a lot of suffering and pain, and only through herculean technological efforts do some of us get to have the comfort to see some level of joy. In short, God doesn’t seem like a being or whatever to listen to. As for that conversation you had, again just your imagination and nothing to really indicate otherwise. Especially when you consider that some strands of this “stoner philosophy” (not sure what else I would call it) say there is no self. So with no self or other then kindness to all just sounds like nonsense because there is nothing to be kind to. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/98 "2019-08-26T02:17:12Z")
I’m sorry. You lost me after “Ask the…” ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/99 "2019-08-26T05:22:25Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I’m sorry. You lost me after “Ask the…” I know, but you don’t miss much with the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794/100 "2019-08-26T06:40:50Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > and only through herculean technological efforts do some of us get to have the comfort to see some level of joy. Yes, evidenced by the fact that no human beings were _ever_ happy until the late 20th century at a minumum. Every moment of the thousands of centuries before that was pure living hell, as they remain today in regions of the world without the latest in technology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-psychologist-who-did-ayuahasca-yesterday/763794.md?page=6)