# Ask The Atheist Raised As A Jehovah's Witness.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077 "2009-02-02T03:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/21 "2009-02-02T22:43:02Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Do you feel the need to have “respect” for JW beliefs or are you able to be honest about what a load of crazy it is? I have absolutely no respect for their beliefs, though I try very hard to respect my still-believing family members. They pretty much all know it’s not something I want to discuss! ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/22 "2009-02-02T22:46:42Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Is there any type of sex they approve of other than martial intercourse? > > What’s their take on woman subjegating themselves? I’m not sure what “martial” intercourse is, but it sounds rough. Seriously, sex is only okay between husband and wife and I think that anything other than vaginal intercourse is frowned on. Women are to subjegate themselves to their husbands completely, unless doing so would conflict with following God in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/23 "2009-02-02T22:47:59Z")
> [@erleichda](#): > > I have absolutely no respect for their beliefs, though I try very hard to respect my still-believing family members. They pretty much all know it’s not something I want to discuss! Is that how you handle it- you just have a list of things you don’t discuss with certain family members, and religion is one of the items on the list? That’s pretty much what I, as someone who converted from Christianity to Judaism, do. From **Annie-Xmas** ’s link, it sounds like your JW relatives are supposed to keep contact with you to a minimum. Do they? Is there anything about being a JW that you miss? Obviously not any holidays, which is something a lot of people miss when converting from one religion to another. Did you used to go out and witness to people? What was it like? Do you celebrate any holidays now? Do you celebrate your birthday? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/24 "2009-02-02T23:02:14Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I can’t answer the second question, but as to the first, loyalty to the religious community is supposed to supercede loyalty to the state. To put it more strongly, you’re not supposed to pay attention to the temporal rulers of this kingdom, keeping your eyes on the heavenly kingdom to come. Voting, for instance, is not encouraged (though the strategy seems counter-productive to me). This is one reason why JWs are not popular in many countries. This is roughly what my ex-JW ex-husband told me. Voting is compulsory in Australia but he used to abstain on religious grounds when he was still an active JW (he left the church before I met him). I think he said the procedure was to wait until the fine for not voting arrived in the mail and then send it back with a letter of explanation from the church, at which point it would be waived. His explanation was that JW’s don’t believe in earthly governments because they are flawed; they only follow divine governance. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/25 "2009-02-02T23:23:11Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > How are your relations with your family? My mother was raised JW, and on her side the JWs and ex-JWs are in a constant state of either cold war or uneasy armed truce. The JW relatives have been “caught” by their co-religioners doing things like visiting dying parents in the hospital and been censured for it, and then when they turn around and refuse to acknowledge parents and siblings, they get flak for that from family. It seems like leaving the religion inherently involves losing almost all of your friends and family, or at the very least a lifetime of strained relationships with them. > > PS: I’m a generation removed from JW-ism, and we lived far away, but even so the religion makes me so angry I’m hardly rational about it. I admire you, **Erleichda** for being able to start this thread! I got along pretty well with most of my family, but I left the religion as a teenager, before I was actually baptizes. They don’t all approve of me or my “lifestyle”, but we do communicate and visit. I do have one sister that can’t wrap her head around me not believing in God; she thinks that I am rebelling or angry. :rolleyes: I try to avoid religious conversations with her, but she keeps bringing it up. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/26 "2009-02-02T23:36:04Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Is there a group in California that targets gays and lesbians? Not that I know of. But the religion does not approve of homosexuality at all. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/27 "2009-02-02T23:39:54Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I can’t answer the second question, but as to the first, loyalty to the religious community is supposed to supercede loyalty to the state. To put it more strongly, you’re not supposed to pay attention to the temporal rulers of this kingdom, keeping your eyes on the heavenly kingdom to come. Voting, for instance, is not encouraged (though the strategy seems counter-productive to me). This is one reason why JWs are not popular in many countries. This is accurate, except for the part about keeping their “eyes on the heavenly kingdom”. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not vote, hold public office or join the military. They also do not let their children join the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/28 "2009-02-02T23:48:46Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Can a woman who was raped really be accused of “fornication” and be disfellowed? > > Can JW’s associate with people who left the church or were disfellowed? A woman who is raped would not be punished for it, but she could be disfellowshipped if she was considered to have been behaving inappropriately or socializing with “worldly” people. When I was growing up we were taught that we were partially responsible for the rape if we didn’t fight back. I think they eased up on that when research showed that it could frequently be fatal to fight a rapist. JW’s are not supposed to associate with disfellowshipped people, even if they are related. It’s pretty much left up to an individual’s conscience whether or not they want to hang out with people who have left. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/29 "2009-02-02T23:57:59Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Was there some specific incident that made you decide to leave, or did you just gradually come to the feeling that this wasn’t the right religion for you? > > Are all JWs expected to do the door-to-door thing, or is that just for the ones who want to do that? > > Genesis 9:4-5 says it’s OK to eat meat, but you must not also consume the blood of an animal. Because of this verse, kosher meat has to be soaked and salted to drain it of any blood. Jews, however, say that this verse (and all the kosher laws) only applies to _eating_ things, not to other ways that something might get into your body such as organ transplants and blood transfusions. Modern Judaism also says that all commandments except the ones against murder, idolatry, and adultery are to be set aside if you need to do it to save a life. If a Jew is stranded on a desert island and the only food available is blood sausage made from pig’s blood, the Jew is not only allowed to eat the blood sausage rather than starve to death, he or she is _required_ by Jewish law to eat it. Obviously, the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t agree with us there. > > Did you eat only kosher meat, to avoid eating blood? > > Can JWs give blood transfusions to people who they know are not JWs? Jews are allowed to sell non-kosher meat to non-Jews, or to give it to animals. Apparently I don’t have that “God” gene! I knew I didn’t want to be a JW before I knew I didn’t beieve in God (if that makes sense). Too many things were not answered satisfactorily for me for me to want to be baptized. I am also technically bisexual (nonpracticing!), so that became an issue for me pretty young. All good Jehovah’s Witnesses are expected to go door-to-door, at least once in a while. Even though they are definately against blood transfusions, they do not keep kosher or only consume kosher meat. I was an adult before I ever tasted a rare steak, however. They do not give blood either. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/30 "2009-02-03T00:00:15Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Here is a [list](http://www.jwfiles.com/jw-cant.htm) of what JW’s cannot do, and things that are frowned upon. This list is not very accurate. If I get time to go throught the whole thing, I’ll list the errors. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/31 "2009-02-03T00:09:07Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Again with the blood transfusions– it’s one of few things most people seem to associate with JWs (that and the witnessing). Is it just something we’ve focused on, or does it really come up quite a bit at the temple/family conversations? Is it something you thought or worried about when you were a kid? This is a MAJOR belief of theirs. It comes up frequently in meetings, in literature and in conversation. It is one of the biggest, if not the THE biggest, sins you can commit. Saying no to a blood transfusion, even if it kills you or your child, is one of the marks of a “true Christian”. I don’t remember how I felt as a kid, but I can tell you that this has been so firmly implanted in my mind since infancy that I think I would have a hard time getting a transfusion. I have no logical reason for feeling this way, the indoctrination is just that strong. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/32 "2009-02-03T00:11:52Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a JW church (hall?) that had windows, let alone stained glass or any sort of adornment. What’s up with that? They don’t believe in idols or adornment of any kind in their halls (they do NOT like the term church). The no windows thing is for a different reason. They have a huge persecution complex and believe that windows make them vulnerable to violence and religious persecution. We had windows when I was growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Euryphaessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Euryphaessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euryphaessa)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/33 "2009-02-03T00:16:06Z")
I’m not a JW and neither is my family, but I have a good friend whose parents were pretty hardcore followers. That being said, it seems like there’s different degrees of adherence to all of the rules, it doesn’t seem like it’s necessarily so strict as **Annie-Xmas’s** link implies. For instance, their 3 sons (who are all pretty devout) and daughter (my friend who has since stopped following the religion) were allowed to date and go to prom . I also don’t think they had any real qualms about surfing the internet or getting a post-secondary education. And although they preferred their children to only associate with other Witnesses, they were always really nice to me and all of their daughter’s non-JW friends (although one of her brothers has since implied she’s not welcome in group activities like pond hockey, etc. with him and his JW friends). So I guess my question is, is it common for people to be a little lax about the rules? Are they less likely to get eternal life because they like computers or is it more about the spirit of the teachings that should be obeyed? Also, I remember my friend saying that even if a member of the congregation has done something wrong or leaves the church but wants to come back, if they really do want to be a part of the community it’s relatively easy for them to get back in favour with the church. Is this true in your experience or was her church community less insular than what is normal? ETA: I see that you’ve mentioned that list is not very accurate, I’d definitely be interested to know what’s actually forbidden and frowned upon. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/34 "2009-02-03T00:42:10Z")
> [@erleichda](#): > > This list is not very accurate. If I get time to go throught the whole thing, I’ll list the errors. As a former JW, I can say the list IS accurate. Although some context in regards to some of the ‘rules’ may be in order. Which one’s did you feel were inaccurate? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/35 "2009-02-03T00:48:54Z")
> [@erleichda](#): > > This is a MAJOR belief of theirs. It comes up frequently in meetings, in literature and in conversation. It is one of the biggest, if not the THE biggest, sins you can commit. Saying no to a blood transfusion, even if it kills you or your child, is one of the is the marks of a “true Christian”. With all due respect, it does _not_ come up very often at meetings at all, and only then when the specific biblical principle governing the use of blood is brought up. In my case, I don’t believe I’ve heard in a meeting in so long a time I can’t remember. OTOH, it is not kept quite, and they handle the issue in an unflinching way. I also have _never_ heard anyone, in print, or from the platform _ever_ say _anything_ akin to refusing a blood transfusion is the marks of a “true Christian.” _Ever_ ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/36 "2009-02-03T01:03:17Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > As a former JW, I can say the list IS accurate. Although some context in regards to some of the ‘rules’ may be in order. Which one’s did you feel were inaccurate? As a _current_ JW, the list is inaccurate. As you noted, the list lacks some context, however. The biggest inaccuracies involve how the list is divided up, among others. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/37 "2009-02-03T01:06:35Z")
> [@erleichda](#): > > They don’t believe in idols or adornment of any kind in their halls (they do NOT like the term church). > The no windows thing is for a different reason. They have a huge persecution complex and believe that windows make them vulnerable to violence and religious persecution. We had windows when I was growing up. I have _never_ heard anyone ever say that they felt vulnerable to violence because of windows. 😕 While most of the churches I’ve seen had no windows, I’ve been in many that had them, and I’ve seen several built recently built with them. It remains true that they have been victims of violence, including in western countries like the USA. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/38 "2009-02-03T01:44:33Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > I have _never_ heard anyone ever say that they felt vulnerable to violence because of windows. 😕 > > While most of the churches I’ve seen had no windows, I’ve been in many that had them, and I’ve seen several built recently built with them. > > It remains true that they have been victims of violence, including in western countries like the USA. My WAG was that it was a “no distractions” thing but maybe they had skylights on the roof to allow natural light in. Funny, if the halls had windows, I might drive by without thinking they were anything but a residence. If I awoke in the middle of the night and a fire were raging outside my BR door, I could exit through a BR window. If I didn’t have windows, I’d be trapped. Granted, ppl aren’t sleeping at the hall, but then, I don’t have large numbers of people to evacuate in an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/39 "2009-02-03T03:30:12Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Is that how you handle it- you just have a list of things you don’t discuss with certain family members, and religion is one of the items on the list? That’s pretty much what I, as someone who converted from Christianity to Judaism, do. > > From **Annie-Xmas** ’s link, it sounds like your JW relatives are supposed to keep contact with you to a minimum. Do they? > > Is there anything about being a JW that you miss? Obviously not any holidays, which is something a lot of people miss when converting from one religion to another. > > Did you used to go out and witness to people? What was it like? > > Do you celebrate any holidays now? Do you celebrate your birthday? Pretty much, although, as I said before, I have one sister who won’t let it drop. I have just as much contact with my family as anyone else, maybe more. They are probably not supposed to have as much to do with me as they do, but I’m hard to ignore and even harder to get rid of! I never, ever miss being part of that (or any other) religion. I really cannot find a way to believe in God, a Higher Power, or anything similar. My mind just can’t conceive of it. Belonging to a religion, especially a strict fundamentalist one like the Witnesses, made me feel like a fraud. I need to be true to myself to live comfortably and that, at least for me, means being able to be honest about myself. I was forced to witness to people as a child and I absolutely hated it. I was an extremely shy little kid, so that had more to do with me hating it than any religious aspect. I do celebrate holidays now, but only on a very superficial, secular and slightly pagan level. I’ve never gotten into the birthday habit however. ---
**Author:** ![erleichda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4da419/32.png) [@erleichda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erleichda)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/40 "2009-02-03T03:35:32Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > I have _never_ heard anyone ever say that they felt vulnerable to violence because of windows. 😕 > > While most of the churches I’ve seen had no windows, I’ve been in many that had them, and I’ve seen several built recently built with them. > > It remains true that they have been victims of violence, including in western countries like the USA. That was the reason given to me by my mother when they built a new Kingdom Hall in her town(without windows). Perhaps there are regional differences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077.md?page=3)