# Ask The Atheist Raised As A Jehovah's Witness.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077 "2009-02-02T03:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/61 "2009-02-04T17:55:27Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > They do not, and have not, taught that the moon landing was a hoax, that animals haven’t gone extinct, or that flashlights are evil. See, that was my point. “They” meaning the JW organization, of course not. “They” meaning the specific Kingdom Hall where my grandparents went, yes they did. Individual experience is highly variable. (Of course, even my grandparents wouldn’t claim that those two tenets were religious, just “facts” — but their worldview was shaped by religion, and their “education” after Grade 6 was largely through the Kingdom Hall.) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/62 "2009-02-04T18:22:55Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Candles are out of the question, I’m guessing? The only time I ever saw a candle in a Kingdom Hall was during the whole once a year communion thingy… They aren’t big on traditional religious trappings–so no flowers either, at least not real ones. Horrible fake plastic flowers, yeah. Whatever else one may have against the JW’s, tackiness is a legitimate complaint! > [@the raindog](#): > > They may not have thought of emergency back up lights, but the international building codes thought of them and they have been a standard of building construction and building codes _for decades._ > > How did they get occupancy permits considering emergency back up lights would have been a required part of building, and no building for public occupancy would have been granted one without them? > > How do you suppose that happened? > > :smack:😕:smack: I have no friggin’ clue, I only found out empirically when we had a power outage during a service. Total chaos, not even a lighted “Exit” sign, which is a total no-no. For all I know there was an emergency lighting system which had been disconnected or something… > [@the raindog](#): > > With all due respect to other posters I have _never_ heard, formally or informally, from _anyone_ talk of the churches having no windows because of a Sodom & Gomorrah type attack. (re: the attack on Lot’s household…) > > I think that’s more internet folklore. I’ve heard (and incidentally JWs build their own churches and are extremely good at it) that it was for simplicity and lowers the cost of building. I would also assume in urban areas it may reduce break ins. Sorry, but I’m telling you that in the mid '70s that was a common explanation for the windowless Kingdom Halls. I only attended one Hall that had windows, in SoCal, but that was a renovated regular church. I asked about what they were planning to do about the whole Armageddon/window thing and several members expressed their concerns about it and said they were planning on going to a different, windowless Kingdom Hall in the event of Armageddon. I made something of a study of this particular weird belief because it struck me as being so incredibly dumb–it’s not like these buildings are made of anything other than standard stick construction with wood siding, y’know? One determined unbeliever in a pickup truck could crash right through a wall and there’d be nothing they could do about it. Or douse the fucker in gasoline and throw a match–the whole thing would go up like tinder. A couple of elders made the cognitive leap of realizing there was a flaw in their plan and assumed that angels would come to protect the Kingdom Halls, but in that case why worry about the damned windows? Angels can’t protect windows? Weird, just weird… I recently had a nice conversation with my ex-husband, who got me into the whole JW thing when I was a teenager and who remained in the religion for the next 20 some-odd years after that–he finally did get disfellowshipped but he didn’t get it for the usual banal reasons. Nope, they disfellowshipped him for apostasy, how cool is that? I gave him a big old fist bump for that one, especially since he got it by attending his wife’s disfellowshipping meeting and kinda went off the rails at the elders. So it became a two-fer, heh heh… Oh, here’s another fun thing–I used to get called on the carpet because I didn’t wear a bra. Didn’t really need one, it was the '70s after all and I had itty bitty titties at the time. They said I had to wear the tit-hammock to avoid “stumbling the brothers.” I said in my opinion the brothers ought to mind where they look, and asked what about the guys going shirtless in summer, shouldn’t they avoid that in order to not stumble ME? They looked at me like I was from Mars–apparently it wasn’t in the programming that women could ever get lustful thoughts from looking at half nekkid men. Typical religious tunnel vision… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/63 "2009-02-04T18:36:30Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > I am 47 years old and I’ve been acquainted with JWs my whole life. > > I’m certain that many of experiences would be similar, if not the same. From my experience, the issue of blood transfusions is simply one topic, of many, many, many topics that are part of JW worship. As I’ve said, they deal wiuth the topic in an unflinching way, but it’s hardly a topic that the average JW thinks about in day to day life. > > I agree that they have fought many, many battles that every American benefits from. I’m well aware of the general immaturity and ignorance here (and I don’t mean ignorance in the pejorative sense; but a lack of awareness, or knowledge) about the implications of their efforts. A US Supreme Court Justice said, _“The Jehovah’s Witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legal problems of civil liberties.”_ > > There are dozens of rights in the US that are simply taken for granted that are codified in the laws based on the efforts (and abuse) of JWs to secure those rights, for all Americans. > > It’s particularly ironic then, that in a MB that gets apoplectic over the crimes of the Bush Administration (et al) over civil rights, and purports to “Fight Ignorance” and practice tolerance that when the topic turns to JWs (and LDS/Mormons etc) that the most common response (after the litany of juvenile ones) is to advance the type of oppression and stifling of basic freedoms that can only be seen in places like Iran. Please list the basic rights that have been gained for all Americans by the JWs. Please give an example of someone trying to “stifle” basic freedoms in a JW thread. > [@](#): > > Flashlights were not allowed. They were tools of Satan. [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...&context=verse](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...&context=verse) Poe’s Law is not your friend. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/64 "2009-02-04T19:04:05Z")
> [@erleichda](#): > > This is a MAJOR belief of theirs. It comes up frequently in meetings, in literature and in conversation. It is one of the biggest, if not the THE biggest, sins you can commit. Saying no to a blood transfusion, even if it kills you or your child, is one of the marks of a “true Christian”. I’m not a JW, but we had a client who was. The reason this woman stuck out to me is that she had a beautiful, little doll of a daughter- about 3 years old, maybe. I can’t remember what the exact condition was,but her daughter had a heart problem that required (what was, at least in my understanding) open heart surgery. She proudly told me how she’s been fighting with doctors since her daughter’s birth, because of none of them will do the surgery on her without guaranteeing there wont be a blood transfusion. And since it’s a sin to take blood, she’d rather her daughter die and go to heaven, then live and suffer for eternity. I sort of just stared at her. She started telling me all of the biblical background for why blood transfusions were wrong. She explained that she just knew God would bring her a doctor who would be willing to do the surgery with the guarantee she needed. I said, “What if He doesn’t?” and she said “Well, then that’s His will.” Aye. While I can’t remember the specifics of the condition, even she explained it as something that was relatively easy to fix and would garner her kid a long, happy, healthy life. Untreated, though? The kid was going to die by 5. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/65 "2009-02-04T20:11:14Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’m not a JW, but we had a client who was. The reason this woman stuck out to me is that she had a beautiful, little doll of a daughter- about 3 years old, maybe. I can’t remember what the exact condition was,but her daughter had a heart problem that required (what was, at least in my understanding) open heart surgery. She proudly told me how she’s been fighting with doctors since her daughter’s birth, because of none of them will do the surgery on her without guaranteeing there wont be a blood transfusion. And since it’s a sin to take blood, she’d rather her daughter die and go to heaven, then live and suffer for eternity. > > I sort of just stared at her. She started telling me all of the biblical background for why blood transfusions were wrong. She explained that she just knew God would bring her a doctor who would be willing to do the surgery with the guarantee she needed. I said, “What if He doesn’t?” and she said “Well, then that’s His will.” > > Aye. > > While I can’t remember the specifics of the condition, even she explained it as something that was relatively easy to fix and would garner her kid a long, happy, healthy life. Untreated, though? The kid was going to die by 5. Did this woman say that her child would go to heaven, or suffer for eternity? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/66 "2009-02-04T20:17:03Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Did this woman say that her child would go to heaven, or suffer for eternity? Those words exactly? In fairness, it was a while ago and I can’t recall an exact quote, but that’s what I took away from what she was saying. I fully admit that maybe that’s not what she was intending as the message, but she really went on and on about how it was a VERY BAD THING to get blood transfusions and that protecting her daughter’s soul was more important than her body. Or something like that. And of course, I fully admit this lady may very well just be a total nut job and not representative of the whole group. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/67 "2009-02-04T22:38:54Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Poe’s Law is not your friend. Another “Law” spawned by some deep thinker that we are able to brandish on internet message boards with verve and a hint of irony. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/68 "2009-02-05T05:26:00Z")
Windows are not required by codes? I know I remember reading somewhere that local frat houses (nasty overpacked beer soaked roofie dens) were being cited not because of too many people in a building but rather because to dampen the noise being heard on the street they were blocking the windows with mattresses. Blocking the potential escape routes in the event of a fire would get them a ticket. Is it ok to just not build potential escape routes except doors? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/69 "2009-02-05T13:36:17Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > And of course, I fully admit this lady may very well just be a total nut job and not representative of the whole group. The whole “having a blood transfusion and you will not be resurrected to live on earth in a godly paradise” is representative of all JW’s. How do they explain the many predictions of that paradise occuring, and yet it never does. Supposedly some people who saw the second coming of Jesus in 1914 would see this earthly paradise, yet there are not that many peiople from 1914 still alive. Will the JW’s be saying the same thing five years from now in 2014? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/70 "2009-02-05T15:06:39Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Another “Law” spawned by some deep thinker that we are able to brandish on internet message boards with verve and a hint of irony. So you’re not going to give any examples of rights the JWs have secured for all Americans, or any examples of Dopers trying to turn America in Iran in JW related threads? ---
**Author:** ![Scooterdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba8739/32.png) [@Scooterdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scooterdude)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/71 "2009-07-14T20:00:38Z")
I’m a former JW, and I might be able to shed some light on the whole windows in kingdom halls issue. Any new Kingdom Hall built in the United States will have windows. The designs of the buildings are standardized by the headquarters in New York through several regional building committees. Since the Kingdom halls are typically funded by low-interest loans taken out by the congregation from the headquarters, the project is typically led by the appointed building committee for that area who act as representatives for the organization. The Kingdom Halls are built by JWs. The skilled trades, such as painting, tiling, brick-laying, roofing, etc. are done by volunteer JWs from other areas who specifically work for the building committee. Minor and unskilled jobs, such as providing refreshments and security, is typically done by volunteer JWs from the local congregation. Before this arrangement was put into place, it was the sole responsibility of the local congregation to choose the building materials, location, and design of their Kingdom Hall. Since the projects were largely funded by direct donations, the buildings were built with cost-savings in mind. One of these measures was the lack of windows. It is simply cheaper to build a building without windows than to have them. The framing is simpler, it’s less time-consuming, and less heat loss results in more efficient heating and cooling. I don’t know why windows are back or if it had anything to do with fire codes, but that’s my theory anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/72 "2009-07-14T20:10:38Z")
This seems like a good place to ask: Is Kyria Abrahams’ [_I’m Perfect, You’re Doomed_](http://www.amazon.ca/Im-Perfect-Youre-Doomed-Upbringing/dp/1416556842) worth a read? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077/73 "2009-07-14T21:36:19Z")
I’ll always have a grudge against the JW for my only exposure to them when I was 13. I grew up in white suburb midwest and lived on a dead end street where every home had at least 2 kids and the neighborhood was a happy family. Neighborhood parties were the norm and all the kids were friends. In the center of the neighborhood lived my best friend. We were both 13. He also had a younger brother, 11, and a sister, 8. He was the better student than I and was top of the class as were his siblings. They were also very active in school sports. He was definately college bound. They were all living happy childhoods. Then one fine day in one fell swoop it was destroyed because mom & dad decided to join the JW. Attending neighborhood birthday parties, gone. Having their own birthday parties, gone. Neighborhood trick-or-treat, gone. School sports, gone. Good grades with the promise of going to college, gone. Community 4th of July parades and fireworks, gone. Summer nights of kick-the-can with friends, gone. Christmas morning, gone. Their lives as they knew them just totally destroyed. My best friend gone. Young and naive I would wander over when they had new JW “friends” over to meet them and attempt to play with them. My old friend looked embarassed when his parents would tell him I had to go. When I did see them they looked sad all the time. On holidays they drew their curtains and kept the house dark. Last I heard my old friend had married a JW gal, had kids, and works as a carpet layer. His younger brother quit the JW, went out on his own and doesn’t communicate with the family. The youngest sister must have been hit the hardest as she rebelled hard as a teenager, got pregnant at 14, and her parents disowned her. Fuck em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-raised-as-a-jehovahs-witness/484077.md?page=3)