# Ask the Atheist. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 10, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067 "2004-11-10T19:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/21 "2004-11-10T22:19:01Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > [Darwin Walking Fish](http://www.christenn.de/glaubenswelten/humor/images/DarwinFish.jpg) Emblems (That Spoof the Ichthus) > > Have one on your car? > Have one a T-shirt? > Have one on a necklace? > > If yes to any of the above, why? None of the above. When buying clothes the fact that I am an Atheist is the last thing on my mind. I’ve thought hard, and I can’t think of anything I own that symbolises atheism. ---
**Author:** ![flamingbananas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f4b2a3/32.png) [@flamingbananas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flamingbananas)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/22 "2004-11-10T22:19:24Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > But I’m curious – are there specific reasons you don’t believe in a higher power? When I was younger I never went to church or did any religion. I just always thought there was no god. I also tried praying and asking for good things to happen and things like that. It never worked, so I figured god wasn’t there. I was really little when I figured that out. > [@Chastain86](#): > > Second part to that question – what if you’re wrong? If I’m wrong? Looks like I’m going to hell then. Still, no one REALLY knows if god exsists, and no one really ever will know what happens after death, so it’s just what everyone thinks. To me god is a reason not to take responsibilty for your own actions. That’s just my opinion though. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/23 "2004-11-10T22:32:23Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > In the whole Pascal’s Theory way of thinking, there will be no tangible penalty for believing in God if God does NOT exist. However, a substantial penalty exists for NOT believing in God, should God truly exist. > > So how do you feel about that? That theory only stands up if you believe in a God who demands that belief is more important than, say, good conduct. Besides, I’m sure most deities could detect insincerity, so I don’t think covering yourself in this way is going to work. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/24 "2004-11-10T22:34:15Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > In the whole Pascal’s Theory way of thinking, there will be no tangible penalty for believing in God if God does NOT exist. However, a substantial penalty exists for NOT believing in God, should God truly exist. > > So how do you feel about that? I’ve posted about Pascal’s Wager a bunch of times here. I’ll try and do it without the profanity this time. 😉 Pascal is arguing that it’s in your best interest to believe, so you should make yourself believe. This is pointless, since I don’t think many people can do that. It’s also cowardly. I go with what’s right, not what I’m afraid might happen if I’m wrong. **Aagramn** is also right: if there was a god so petty he cared only about whether people believed in and worshipped him, I’d be proud that I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diddly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@Diddly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diddly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/25 "2004-11-10T22:38:57Z")
Chipping in one of my views… > [@](#): > > Second part to that question – what if you’re wrong? I try to live a decent, moral life. Golden rule and whatnot. If there turns out to be a god of some sort, who does judging and placement in some sort of afterlife, and it puts me in hell for not worshipping it, then it is not something that I would’ve wanted to worship in life anyways. If it recognizes that I was a nice fellow and puts me in heaven, then I lucked out. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/26 "2004-11-10T22:42:48Z")
> [@flamingbananas](#): > > …god is… > [@Marley23](#): > > …I don’t believe in god… > [@Lobsang](#): > > …God… > [@Chastain86](#): > > …NOT believing in God… My my unscientific tally: =\> 2 self-described athiests that spell god with a small _g_ and =\> 2 that spell God with a capital _G_ Q’s For all:[ul][li]Why do you spell it the way you do?[_]Is it to drive home a point or is it just a force of habit?[_]Do you use the word Og in leiu of God on a regular basis?[/ul][/li] For those that spell god in lower case letters: _Are there other religious/theisitic words or names you don’t capitalize (i e Pope, Mormon, Taoism, etc)?_ For those that spell God with a capital G: _Is it done out of respect for theists - or just an old habit?_ ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/27 "2004-11-10T22:44:02Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > So you were raised religiously? You had to go to church with your family and stuff? When did you come to your own conclusions about god? My family was never religious. It just wasn’t a part of our lives. We weren’t _anti_ religous, or anything—not in principle, at least. But in private, we didn’t treat religions and their followers with kid gloves just for the sake of tolerance.—My sister and I were always raised with the attitude that what whatever we did or didn’t want to believe in was fine, if that’s what made us happy. Indeed, my sister converted to christianity in her mid teens (I think she’d always had “spiritual” leanings); while I was never really religious\* or spiritual, and I’ve always been pretty atheist/agnostic. \*When I was pretty young, I had the idea that there was a Heaven and a Hell, but that there wasn’t a God running them, and he hadn’t created the universe. And if there was a “Devil,” he was just the guy who ran Hell. I think that can all be traced back to cartoon watching, with the generic heavens and hells that the ghosts of dead people tended to pop to, automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/28 "2004-11-10T22:45:56Z")
Great replies, all. Like I said before, I haven’t made up my mind one way or the other, so it’s always interesting to see how others have come to their respective decisions. One more question, open for discussion: Do you look at faith as a positive or a negative? Let me elaborate – it should come as no surprise to you that most folks who practice theism simply just “believe” or “know” there’s a higher power. Do you not believe in God because you’ve never felt that you “just knew,” or because you’ve weighed the facts and decided accordingly? I’m not asking anybody to prove a negative, but how can you just “know” there’s NOT a God, and feel negatively towards others who just “know” there is? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/29 "2004-11-10T22:48:51Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > In the whole Pascal’s Theory way of thinking, there will be no tangible penalty for believing in God if God does NOT exist. However, a substantial penalty exists for NOT believing in God, should God truly exist. > > So how do you feel about that? In addition to other flaws posted here, Pascal was guilty of the logical fallacy called “The Excluded Middle”. He proposed that there were only two alternatives: 1- God (as portrayed in the Bible and by Charlton Heston) exists and will reward his worshippers 2- God does not exist If this were the case, then perhaps his argument would hold some merit, though it would still be a poor Christian who only believed to hedge some bets. However, there are countless alternative options. Suppose, for example, that the Egyptians were right and when you die your heart will be weighed by Anubis against a feather from Ma’at, and it just so happens that while Anubis has no real beef with atheists (they couldn’t very well be expected to believe in him because the unfaithful portrayed him as, at best, a quaint myth) but hates monotheists because they destroyed his cult. Then you would have been better off having stuck with atheism. (The same is true of any other of alternative gods or of gods who haven’t yet revealed themselves but don’t like Christianity all the same.) Once you open the door to the irrational you’ll find it becomes an Ellis Island in terms of odd possibilities, and Pascal did not address these. Adding my tuppence on the other questions, I was raised in a very religious home but my “conversion” to atheism (which happened in my twenties) was neither a rebellion nor a rejection but a combination of logical flaws in Christianity and other religions coupled with learning the history of the Bible (and other texts) and just generally the fact atheism made more sense with the current data available. I believe life originated when organic molecules became self-replicating and while I’m not qualified to discuss the origins and evolution of consciousness I believe it to be naturally explicable. While the question of Ultimate Origin of matter and space and time et al is unanswerable, so are questions on the Ultimate Origin of God to theists (for if, as they state, everything must have a beginning and a maker, who made Him? and if the answer is nobody, then not all things have to have a maker and a beginning). ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/30 "2004-11-10T22:50:15Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > I’m not asking anybody to prove a negative, but how can you just “know” there’s NOT a God, and feel negatively towards others who just “know” there is? Whoops, hit the button before I finished. This only applies to someone that feels negatively towards theists. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/31 "2004-11-10T22:51:59Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > For those that spell God with a capital G: > _Is it done out of respect for theists - or just an old habit?_ I (usually) spell it that way because that’s that deity’s proper name—it just happens to be the same english word for “male deity.” I’d capitalize the names of, say, Thor or Osiris, too. (Or “Devil,” or “Abraham Lincoln,” or “Jack Ryan,” for that matter.) For me, it’s more a matter of proper grammar than “respect.” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/32 "2004-11-10T22:53:14Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > Do you look at faith as a positive or a negative? I see it as both. The faith that a woman who has lost her only child has that she will be reunited with him in a peaceful hereafter where his suffering is over is a great and positive thing that may be all that saves her from bitterness and depression and misery, and for this reason I would _NEVER_ try to “convert” anybody from theism who was decent and kind. OTOH, the “faith” of a person who believes that all homosexuals go to hell and that they must be illegalized and persecuted here on Earth is a big ol’ negative (and we won’t even go into suicide bombers). Unfortunately, the woman who lost her only child and has faith in a future reunion could well also believe due to her religious training that homosexuals are damned and that it is a favor to persecute them, and it is nearly impossible to remove only one form of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/33 "2004-11-10T22:53:51Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > For those that spell God with a capital G: > _Is it done out of respect for theists - or just an old habit?_ Good question. I did so because it feels more grammatically correct – I’m a writer by trade. I didn’t grow up with a particularly pious background. Since we were all referring to the concept of God, and not a god in the specific, I felt that was the best usage of the capital. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/34 "2004-11-10T22:55:43Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > For those that spell God with a capital G: > _Is it done out of respect for theists - or just an old habit?_ This atheist spells God with a capital G out of respect for theists, tradition, and grammar. I will occasionally spell it “god” to emphasize that I do not believe or to show contempt, or to make it clear that I don’t mean to refer to the Islamic-Judeo-Christian God. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/35 "2004-11-10T22:59:45Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > For those that spell God with a capital G: > _Is it done out of respect for theists - or just an old habit?_ Mostly a habit (‘God’ is a name, hence the capitalization of the first letter) but I feel that using small ‘g’ would be slightly disrespectful to atheists. Not that those who use small g (as I have been known to myself) are being disrespectful, just that if it is on my mind I’ll consciously make sure it’s capitalized. > [@Chastain86](#): > > One more question, open for discussion: > > Do you look at faith as a positive or a negative? Let me elaborate – it should come as no surprise to you that most folks who practice theism simply just “believe” or “know” there’s a higher power. Do you not believe in God because you’ve never felt that you “just knew,” or because you’ve weighed the facts and decided accordingly? By ‘faith’ do you mean this particular belief, or the general concept of Faith? (personally accepting as fact that which cannot be proven) if the former - it has it’s good points and bad points. You’ll be pretty happy if you believe you are going to heaven. But posessing faith might affect the way you run your life in negative ways. I guess I could say I ‘know’ God doesn’t exist, but that would be presumptuous. I don’t feel negatively towards believers themselves (even the extremists believe they are doing the right thing) I feel negatively towards the system. The belief rather than the believer. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/36 "2004-11-10T23:09:04Z")
Cards on the table. Technically, I’m an agnostic, but in practise my beliefs are very close to atheism. The kind of God I could believe exists bears no relation to that of mainstream religions. If there is a God, by it’s nature it should be beyond human comprehension, and I see no reason why it would share any human values. > [@Chastain86](#): > > Do you look at faith as a positive or a negative? I think religion can be very positive, and very negative. It’s had a huge bearing on the development of civilization, I wouldn’t trust any conclusions that we’d be better off without it as a species. I don’t consider religious people to be more or less moral than atheists/agnostics. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/37 "2004-11-10T23:10:23Z")
> [@lexi2](#): > > I guess my question to an athiest is how do you believe you were created? Chance. In the small scale, which sperm fertilised which egg on which occassion. On the big scale, which stars imploded and created the particles necessary for carbon-based life. On the bigger scale still, randomness that cannot be predicted within the universe. (I can’t discount the idea that _something_ set the universe in action, but as that something would exist outside of the universe, it by definition does not exist, so…ummmm, so it can’t exist in any way that is meaningful to us.) > [@Aagramn](#): > > As an atheist, do you believe in free will? Absolutely. Why not? > [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > For those that spell God with a capital G: > _Is it done out of respect for theists - or just an old habit?_ Habit and general politeness. I don’t try to make a particular point by not capitalising people’s names, or by deliberatly using lower case letters to start sentences. I know it will insult plenty of people if I don’t capitalise Catholic or Hindu or Mohammed or Jesus, so it would be particularly perverse to not do so for God. Of course, if we’re talking generically about gods, as atheists tend to do, there’s no reason to capitalise, and indeed it’s a good way of distinguishing between the two uses. > [@Chastian86](#): > > Do you look at faith as a positive or a negative? Let me elaborate – it should come as no surprise to you that most folks who practice theism simply just “believe” or “know” there’s a higher power. Do you not believe in God because you’ve never felt that you “just knew,” or because you’ve weighed the facts and decided accordingly? > > I’m not asking anybody to prove a negative, but how can you just “know” there’s NOT a God, and feel negatively towards others who just “know” there is? I disapprove of blind faith. People who’ve thought about it, and have come to their own conclusions, I have less problem with. They’re the kind of people you can have these types of discussion with. (This is why I find papal infallability such a disturbing concept.) ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/38 "2004-11-10T23:19:20Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Absolutely. Why not? It was put to me that there are no scientific explanations for free will, only supernatural ones. So it’s always struck me as a good question to ask atheists. I’m not trying to be tricky, I don’t have a good answer to the free will question myself. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/39 "2004-11-10T23:19:50Z")
> [@](#): > > But in an odd way I look forward to the day a stranger tries to talk to me about Jesus when I can say “Sorry, I’m an atheist” and see what the reaction is. What exactly do you think would happen? Maybe they would start ringing a bell and yelling “Unclean, unclean!” Perhaps they would make a cross with their fingers at you? 😛 **Lobsang** , you live in a society that is largely apathetic agnostic, right? Where a majority of people either don’t believe either, or don’t care much, or haven’t thought about it particularly? Why would you expect an interesting reaction from a person of faith asking you about your beliefs? Wouldn’t it be more likely that this hypothetical person would say, “Ah, the 37th one today”? (Me, I would say, “Oh, OK.” But then, I’m unlikely to ask random people on the street what their beliefs are.) > [@](#): > > The belief rather than the believer. So, you hate the sin but love the sinner? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067/40 "2004-11-10T23:25:09Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > What exactly do you think would happen? Maybe they would start ringing a bell and yelling “Unclean, unclean!” Perhaps they would make a cross with their fingers at you? 😛 **Lobsang** , you live in a society that is largely apathetic agnostic, right? Where a majority of people either don’t believe either, or don’t care much, or haven’t thought about it particularly? Why would you expect an interesting reaction from a person of faith asking you about your beliefs? Wouldn’t it be more likely that this hypothetical person would say, “Ah, the 37th one today”? I simply wonder what the resulting conversation would be. Like with this thread I would enjoy a civilized conversation between two people with fundementally oposing views. I don’t expect them to hiss or make cross signs, just that they might continue to persuade me to believe. I don’t many, even in britain, will admit to being an Atheist, so it would probably come as a surprise to them. I expect most people probably make excuses for shortness of time to talk. > [@](#): > > So, you hate the sin but love the sinner? 😃 I’m not sure what you mean by that. I see no reason to hate human beings who think they are in the right. I see reason to dislike a system that can and has had a negative (and positive) effect on human society. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist/274067.md?page=3)