# Ask The BDSM Guy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703 "2002-03-11T22:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/41 "2002-03-15T21:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\* > > Not to arbitrarily contradict you (and it took me two days to find this and be sure,) but according to Dr. Bruce Orkin, M.D., director of the division of rectal surgery at George Washington University Medical Center in Washington, D.C. “Repeatedly dilating the rectum can cause a loss of muscle tone.” > > I thought you might want to know. \*\* Can and will are two different things. As someone who has been fisted and knows people who have been fisted(and quite love it), I can tell you from personal experience that while it **can** cause a loss of muscle tone, it does not have to, nor will it if appropriate safety measures are used. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/42 "2002-03-15T21:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*Sorry to be ignorant but what is the difference between sub/dom and bottom/top? Is the latter just about who likes to go on top? Or is it like giving/receiving passive/active? > > Could you provide examples (appropriate enough for this board so they don’t get censored I mean)? \*\* Well, this is going to be a bit involved… Sub and dom focuses specifically on domination and submission. Now, the domination can be physical as well as psychological. But, it generally purely involves control as a central theme. Who has the power and who doesn’t. At least on the surface. Beneath the surface is where it gets more complicated. While the dominant(also sometimes called the Master/daddy/et al) has the power within the scene, the sub is the one with the real power. How do they have the power you ask? A submissive/slave/etcetera can exist without a master, because their identity within the scene is not predicated on anything other than their desires. A Master only is a Master as long as they have a slave. Now, while a Dom remains a dom, because it is not a title… the sub has the power because they can recind permission at any time. Now, this is only within the safe, sane, and consentual mode of modern BDSM. There are psycho bastards out there who will use a variety of tools(drugs, intense maniplulation, coersion, etc) to exert real control which can place the slave in danger. Very real physical danger. I have run into two instances of this(literally). One of them was prosecuted in the public eye in San Diero a few years ago(look it up for more info - I don’t want to discuss him on here). This is why it is best and safest to find a local BDSM group that has a good reputation. It is a safe space to express your desires, and it is a safe space in which to meet people who are into your kink or scene. Now… bottom and top. This one can take a bit to wrap oneself around. Top and bottom comes out of gay parlance. It was to designate the receptive partner versus the insertive one. Things are not clear cut in the vanilla realm of gay tops and bottoms, and are even less so in BDSM tops and bottoms. A bottom can be someone who likes to not only receive the punishment/attention, but also likes to be penetrated. But, not all bottoms like to be penetrated(in any orifice), and not all bottoms are submissive. There are dominant bottoms, which are often mischaracterized even within the BDSM community. A dominant bottom is basically a Master who likes to be penetrated.As a friend of mine once said(paraphrasing to maintain a PG-13 rating): “If I tie you down, sit on you, and control your pleasure and keep you on the edge… am I any less of a Master because you are inside me?” Now, there are philosophical differences on this issue. Some people don’t think a dom(especially a Master) should want to be penetrated. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/43 "2002-03-16T06:10:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Hastur** _ > > How am I to become the Esprix of BDSM without an ongoing thread? Try harder. 😉 (Nice job, by the way. My One True Love is a masochist, and he, um, taught me a few things. \) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/44 "2002-03-17T18:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > Try harder. 😉 (Nice job, by the way. My One True Love is a masochist, and he, um, taught me a few things. \) > > Esprix \*\* Care to share your insights? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/45 "2002-03-18T17:45:31Z")
Actually, no - I learned my lesson about oversharing info about my personal relationships on the SDMB the hard way… ☹ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/46 "2002-07-03T19:41:40Z")
Hastur I need your help! Or at least some advice. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/47 "2002-07-03T20:16:40Z")
Hmmm…this isn’t working for me. Couldn’t we have less discussion of nailing balls to razor blades and more discussion about really hot lesbians spanking each other?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/48 "2002-07-04T00:37:37Z")
It wouldn’t be the SDMB without BDSM Heh, Screw the Rose Give Me the Thorns seems to be the bible. I’ve seen a lot of threads on this board of people just discovering some form of BDSM and freaking out about it. This thread seems pretty in line with a lot of the “scenesters” that I’ve met. I personally don’t like the scene. However organizations such as TES that provide classes on how to spank someone properly so that you can A) provide more pleasure and B) Not actually damage them, can only be a good thing. Safe Sane and Consentual seems to be fairly hotly contested as far as I can tell, though it seems to be the mainstream view. As I said, I am not into the scene for purely fetish reasons. The idea of a large group of people “in on it” just turns me off. I prefer intimacy, though I’ve been thinking of taking some of the classes so I can avoid damaging someone. I tend toward the sadist/top side of it. Another thing I have a problem with in the scene is the constant claim that it’s not sexual. Perhaps I am mistaken on this point, but for me it’s completely sexual. I don’t like pain for pains sake. I’ve talked about the animalistic side of it with a few people, and the consensus view among tops that I’ve spoken to is that it taps into one’s predatory nature. If you’ve ever seen cats fucking you’ll know what I am talking about. 😉 As to Scylla’s question about the slippery slope. I think that’s more of a chicken and egg question. I myself find that trying to pretend I don’t get off on a little bit of violence in the bedroom just makes me irritable. Whereas just giving into these urges makes me much calmer in my every day life. It’s a release for urges that are still there but are not conducive to every day society. So I find someone I can trust, who trusts me and we test each other’s limits and it can be very animalistic. I don’t see anything wrong with that. However, there is a point where you don’t want to let your fantasies carry you away because it can be dangerous. However I also believe that if you are hurt seriously doing what you love then that’s perfectly reasonable. This “hobby” is no more dangerous than rock climbing most of the time. Not to mention so many things that were considered S&M are now in the realm of the mainstream, such as handcuffs being tied up or overstimulation (stimulating someone past the point where it feels good). As well as light control games; telling people what they are going to do to you, when and how. People tend to be who they actually are, society may have norms that are safe and make sense logically, at least when you take out the idea that we ARE animals. Some people may be vulcans, but I am not one of them and most people I know are not either. Everyone’s done something dangerous, drove their car too fast, taken acid, rock climbed, skate boarded, surfed, fucked without a condom. People do what they do, and that’s really the end of it. They do it because they want to. Having a psychological issue that makes any dangerous activity more dangerous is beside the point as Hastur illustrated with his story about the girl and her shrink. Rock climbing isn’t the best hobby for someone who has an urge to leap from high places. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/49 "2002-07-07T18:18:18Z")
Alright, someone needs to answer me since Hastur doesn’t seem to be coming back any time soon. I would like for someone to recomend a chat room/web site for “pets” (subs/slaves) Although I enjoy the punishment for being an “unruly” pet I would like to talk to others and get ideas and advice. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/50 "2002-07-08T03:45:01Z")
Ok… I _did_ e-mail you kricket. Now… on EfNet there are many IRC channels that would bring you the data you desire. Just log on to IRC, type /list BDSM or /list S&M and join in whatever channel strikes your fancy. ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/51 "2002-07-08T09:08:30Z")
When did you e-mail me love? It must have gotten eaten in my junk mail sorter darn it all! And I will give that a try thank you. I’m just kind of at a loss here. This is kind of a new position that I find myself in. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/52 "2002-07-08T11:49:30Z")
There are also “munches” and the like for support groups … Also one might want to look up to see if a group has a "social " in their area A social is just a semi public meeting I know The member room “socalsubfemroom” can provide a lot of info for most of California But there’s a soap opera element to the room at times since everyone knows each other and such Now in the la area the dungeon called "lair DE sade " holds a meet and greet at the sportsmen lodge once a month and sells memberships … they also sell online also Juts look up lair de sade in a search engine or on aiols profile search … the people who run it careena and kane are nice people As for mirc/irc its a mixed bag some are just cyber scene rooms and some are serious discussion you just have to find out which is which ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/53 "2002-07-08T13:05:21Z")
As a Switch (mostly Dom) in a monogamous relationship, I thought I’d pop in and mention a couple of books I’ve found useful: [The Topping Book](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963976354/qid=1026133051/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8860010-4077423) and [The Bottoming Book](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890159352/qid=1026133051/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-8860010-4077423). They’re for beginners but are more about the emotional side of BDSM than the practicalities. They’re written in good plain English and I think they have a good go at explaining some of the emotional motivation behind BDSM and also give excellent reassurance and encouragement to the nervous beginner. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/54 "2002-07-08T19:15:22Z")
**Fran** , I will never look at your mumbly little hubby the same way again. :eek: 😉 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/55 "2002-07-09T06:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rysdad \* > **Actually, there is a book called _Screw the Roses, Give Me the Thorns_ that you might find enlightening.** My copy is autographed by the authors 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/56 "2002-07-14T14:09:15Z")
He who chickens out and runs away, lives to chicken out another day. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/57 "2002-07-14T19:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*As a Switch (mostly Dom) in a monogamous relationship, I thought I’d pop in and mention a couple of books I’ve found useful: [The Topping Book](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963976354/qid=1026133051/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8860010-4077423) and [The Bottoming Book](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890159352/qid=1026133051/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-8860010-4077423). They’re for beginners but are more about the emotional side of BDSM than the practicalities. They’re written in good plain English and I think they have a good go at explaining some of the emotional motivation behind BDSM and also give excellent reassurance and encouragement to the nervous beginner. \*\* I recommend both of those books highly. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/58 "2002-07-14T19:34:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nightshadea \* > \*\*There are also “munches” and the like for support groups … > > Also one might want to look up to see if a group has a "social " in their area > A social is just a semi public meeting > > I know The member room “socalsubfemroom” can provide a lot of info for most of California > > But there’s a soap opera element to the room at times since everyone knows each other and such > Now in the la area the dungeon called "lair DE sade " > holds a meet and greet at the sportsmen lodge once a month and sells memberships … they also sell online also > > Juts look up lair de sade in a search engine or on aiols profile search … the people who run it careena and kane are nice people > > As for mirc/irc its a mixed bag some are just cyber scene rooms and some are serious discussion > > you just have to find out which is which \*\* There is a severe soap opera element to the IRC rooms as well as the munches that I have seen. Often there is someone who tries to control the entire thing, and the rest are expected to be the orbiting sattelites. There are exceptions to this, but usually it works out to not be an exception. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/59 "2002-07-14T19:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kricket \* > \*\*When did you e-mail me love? > It must have gotten eaten in my junk mail sorter darn it all! > > And I will give that a try thank you. > I’m just kind of at a loss here. This is kind of a new position that I find myself in. \*\* I resent the e-mail. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703/60 "2002-07-15T16:55:47Z")
I know! That stupid e-mail. How dare it. Oh. [sub]Sorry sir.[/sub] [sub]Isn’t it interesting that the code for this is “sub”?[/sub] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-bdsm-guy/97703.md?page=4)