I am getting jealous! I want my own personal thread!!!
:mad:
I am curious…many Americans (myself included) feel a special kindred with the British. Do the Brits feel the same about the Americans? I kinda figured it was sort of a one-way puppy-master kind of relationship (Americans being the puppies…BIG puppies, but puppies nonetheless)
mattk wrote:
I’ve never heard of an American taking umbrage at being called Yank. Also, here in America, we call the French “Frogs” and the Germans “Krauts.” What do you call them?
Here in America, we pick on Canadians out of a sense of sheer irony, because our differences are so minor. Why do you make fun of the Kanuks?
The Midwestern dialect competes with the Oxford dialect as the standard by which all english dialects are judged. Most of the reporters you see on American news programs are speaking with a midwestern dialect.
Well, strictly speaking they speak with a highly rarified midwestern dialect. Actual Midwesterners speak less formally and with great variation that you can almost map. I’m not a linguist, but I think the pattern is that the further north you go, the further back in the mouth the vowels are formed. A spectrum of vowel placement seems to run from Chicago, through Wisconson, up through Minnesota. I don’t know how it is south of Chicago.
In the older films many times a middle aged british
landowner dressed in knickers and bow tie would say"Now look here old bean"
What the hell is an old bean? It did not seem to be an insult but I never could figure the american equivilent.
Just here to say that ‘limey’ is not a Biblical reference (Why would a book make reference to a civilization that postdated its writing?) but is a crack at the British Navy. Salilors in days of yore ate limes to fend off scurvey. Therefore, Brits=Limeys, just as Germans=Krauts and French=Frogs. All based on stereotypical diet. I wonder what Americans would be called if we were insulted with a word based on what people from other lands thought we ate. Macs?
I believe that cher3 was refering to the nickname of the Terry Pratchett character that she was asking about earlier, not the term “limey”.
Two questions from a British horror novel I’ve read.
The author gives his chapters titles with dual meanings. Both the literal meaning and idiomatic meaning refer to events of the chapter (for example the opening chapter is “In the Fog” and has a character literally walking in a fog while in a confused state ie “in a fog”). One of the chapters is titled “Jack in the Machine” and features a tape recording made by a character named Jack. But does the phrase “Jack in the Machine” (or a variant of this phrase) have an idiomatic meaning in England?
In another part of the novel a character refers to the “four mile radius.” Judging from the context it appears that this was a limit in London beyond which cabs where not required/allowed to travel (this was set during the late Victorian era). Have you heard of this and was there any deeper context to this phrase?
Thanks for any help you can give.
Thanks, Britboy! Shall I credit you in my book as “Mattk?”
I just ordered a 1960s book called “The New Look: A Social History of Britain in the 1940s and '50s,” which I hope will be just what the doctor ordered.
Hope you don’t mind me crashing your thread, matt.
The Oxford dialect is not the same as received pronunciation (“standard” or “BBC” English).
The people of Oxford speak with a distinctive version of the south-west Midlands accent that also covers Warwickshire, Gloucestershire and Worcestershire, a bit like on The Archers, although you can detect elements of “Estuary English” (similar to Cockney but more whiney) in some of the younger people’s speech.
Most Oxford educated people speak either with the accent of the place they originally came from or with received pronunciation, or something between the two.
Little Nemo,
I don’t know about “Jack in the machine”, but the verb-phrase to jack in means to give up or quit, usually suggesting a sense of frustration or disgust.
I don’t know when the novel was written, but if it’s post-1970s, this phrase might have a particular resonance. During the hunt for the “Yorkshire Ripper”, Peter Sutcliffe, in the 1970s, the police received a tape recording purportedly from the killer, which began with the words, “I’m Jack”. The man had a Wearside accent and the police decided they were looking for somebody from that part of the country (Sutcliffe was in fact a Yorkshireman with a Bradford accent). The tape was played again and again on TV and radio, and your reference immediately put me in mind of it.
You are essentially correct, except these days it’s six miles measured, I believe, from Charing Cross (a medieval monument near Trafalgar Square). Once the cabbie stops for you, he has to take you where you’re going if it is within that area. London cab drivers have to pass a test called “the knowledge” in order to get their licence. They are required to be able to give the shortest route from any location to any other location within that area, and it takes months of studying maps and driving round London on a scooter to qualify.
I am very familiar with the six mile radius, having spent three years living almost exactly 6.5 miles from Charing Cross.
You bastard. I’d just about erased Oh! Dr Beeching from my memory.
I’m dying to ask about a TV show, “The Secret Diaries of Adrian Mole” I’ve got the book–it’s hilarious–was the show half as funny? Was it even a hit?
Also, same question about the “Darling buds of may”
Ta!
Thnaks for the help. I realize my question was a little rambling; it was late when I wrote it.
The novel I was refering to was Anno Dracula by Kim Newman. Newman combines characters from the novel Dracula with the Jack the Ripper murders. In his book, the killer is Jack Seward, one of Van Helsing’s proteges, who is now murdering vampires. (Not a spoiler, incidentally, this is revealed in the beginning of the book.)
It was actually a phonograph recording not a tape (see my remark above on being tired). I recognized the reference from Dracula, where characters used phonographs for keeping records. But I hadn’t known about Sutcliffe’s recordings.
Here goes…
cher3, I had an answer emailed to me by a former poster:
2sense, in theory Britain does have the rule of law, it’s just not written down anywhere. Arguments for a written consitution have been banded about for yeeeeears - usually to be stonewalled by whichever party happens to be enjoying the freedoms of government. It’s usually said that, as Britain enjoys the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, no Parliament could bind its successor by introducing a consitution. Of course, the fact that many European laws take precedence over British ones means that’s a joke.
I think that most Britons still think that it’s all down to “fair play” - witness the middle classes up in arms in the early 1990s over the introduction of the poll tax. As for totalitarianism…well, it is possible. If a government enjoys a majority in both Houses of Parliament, and it can ensure that all members vote the same way, then in theory there’s nothing to stop it steamrolling legislation through - the Lords can delay legislation but the Commons gets the final say. In practice, though, splits over issues such as European integration mean that parties never vote the same way unanimously.
It certainly isn’t ideal, and some would argue that Thatcher pushed it to the limit of totalitarianism.
avalongod - as a Londoner my view is coloured by the number of tourists. WAG: Britons are schizophrenic in how they see Americans; on the one hand, Americans are the obnoxious, greedy, spoiled, obese stereotypes hovering around Buckingham Palace. On the other hand, Americans are generous, free-spirited, entrepreneurial and most Britons would, I think, happily emigrate to a country that was portrayed until recently on TV as the land of sunshine, happiness, easy money and fame. Personally, and probably thanks to this board, I think of Americans as the same - maybe with a different set of values (personal freedom meaning more than it does here), but certainly no better or worse. America’s success and Britain’s relative decline means that most Britons wouldn’t act too superior!
Grendel69:
(1) It isn’t. Don’t believe every stereotype you hear; it may have been once thanks to the after-effects of World War II rationing, but you can get pretty much any cuisine you care to mention now.
(2) No idea, never travelled on BA.
(3) I’ll assume you’re joking. There’s enough rubbish talked about the British presence in Northern Ireland without you or me adding to it. FWIW, I’d be happy to hand it over to whoever wants it - there’s far more problems there now than a simple withdrawal would solve, I reckon.
Johnny Angel:
(1) Those names are pretty much the same here, except that Germans are also known as “Jerries” or “Huns” (by the tabloids, at least). You said that you don’t really take offence at “Yank” - well, I doubt most Brits would be too upset at “Limey” either.
(2) Er…we like Canadians, I think. If you meant why does Britain seem to have such a problem with Germany, it’s down to three things: (1) a couple of wars, (2) many, many defeats at football, and (3) because they’ve done so much better economically than us since the war. Several tabloids try to stir it up by claiming Germany is out to use it’s economic power to create a “European super-state” that’ll destroy British “culture” and identity.
justwannano: no idea. Maybe a corruption of “human being/bean”? (complete WAG, obviously)
Little Nemo: what TomH said.
Eve - no worries!
TomH - feel free mate. All of a sudden I’m realising how little I actually know about my own country.
smilingjaws - I vaguely remember it being okay. It was on so long ago - I think it was on Channel 4, which doesn’t usually get the huge audiences, so I doubt it was an enormous hit. The books are though - I think there’s three or four available now. Sue Townsend also has a weekly column in a national newspaper (The Guardian) entitled “Adrian Mole - The Cappuccino Years”. This incredibly long link should take you to a search for recent articles by her.
The Darling Buds of May was hugely popular, maybe because it was harking back to a “kinder, gentler” age, and all the storylines ended happily or funnily. Putting it on in a perfect-for-the-old-folks evening slot was a bright move, too. Having said that, it was well-acted, well-filmed and entertaining in a “nice” way.
The relative decline of Britain as an industrial power puzzles me. If you look at a list of significant inventions, many were invented by British engineers and scientists. Also, most Nobel Prizes were won by Britons> So why couldn’t you stay on top? It seems to me that being first confers tremendous advantages-yet you blew your early lead in such fields as steel, radio, chemical engineering, and auto manufacturing!
I ask this because the British intelligensia has been obsessed by this question, ever since the 1890’s-if you read the literature of that period, people were scared of Germany surpassing Britain (which happened)-so why didn’t you DO anything about it?
How do you distinguish tea meaning “afternoon snack” from tea meaning “stimulated beverage made by soaking imported leaves in hot water”? As in,
“I’ve just had tea.”
“Oh, did you have it with milk and sugar?”
“Well, some clotted cream went on the scones, and there was some sugar in the recipe, I suppose …”
“No, I mean, did you have milk and sugar in your tea?”
“Tea, no, can’t stand the tannin.”
“Didn’t you say you just had tea?”
“Certainly. But I had no tea. Scones and fruit juice.”
“Oh bugger. I’m going back to Limeyshire.”
“Did you say bugger? Is someone stealing jewelry from drunks again?”
“What?”
and so on.
Well there is Eastenders. I’ve watched it one or two times, but I bet a native could describe it better than I could.
LMAO! Almost spit water all over my keyboard.
So now I have a question for the limey guy. How come us Yanks get so much pleasure out of making fun of you guys?
( heheheee… “limeyshire”…!)
Regarding kindredship between our two counries and the Revolution:
How far would Hitler have gotten if the USA had been part of Great Britain? Wouldn’t he have wet his knickers and kept on painting houses?
Athena’s question wasn’t for me, but I’ll answer it anyway. It’s harder for me to laugh at American foibles because I am immersed in them at all times. They start seeming less like foibles and more like demonic attempts to drive me whacko.
Wizard.
Round the bend.
Anyway, British eccentricities seem amusing and non-threatening by comparison. Mint-and-mutton flavored potato crisps are certainly a hoot, though.
egkelly - I can’t say for sure, but my theory is that it’s not about inventing but about exploiting the invention. Frank Whittle was a jet pioneer, but it was the USA that really ran with jet propulsion after World War 2. It’s long been a complaint that British industry doesn’t encourage creativity and the entrepreneurial spirit to the same degree as US industry. I think that’s a fair comment - for example, for many years now British universities have been flooded with social sciences and arts students and have struggled to attract students to science courses. I personally stayed away from science because I saw more money in a career in “business”.
Boris B, you should be a scriptwriter. Truth is, nobody knows for sure. I get confused with the word “dinner” - for some parts of Britain that’s an early evening meal, for other parts it’s lunch. I use “tea” interchangeably, but most people seem to be able to work it out by context. Oh bugger indeed.
carnivorousplant - impossible to say. Maybe the political map would have been completely different; if the US was part of Britain it would no doubt have been involved in World War I at an earlier stage and in greater numbers. Hitler might never have come to power; Germany might never have been in a position to re-arm. Even if, hypothetically, World War II was on the horizon, Hitler might have limited his ambitions to Continental Europe, Asia and Africa, and left the UK to throw dirty looks across the Channel.