Not only unlikely, but borderline insulting to the Buddhists who posted in this thread who are still active posters on this board.
It does not seem like an active thread anymore.
It is an interesting medium, no body language, no eye contact or facial expression.
A misunderstanding can evoke a response that may reflect the self of the reader more than the intent of the writer.
It may be the perfect tool for a Buddhist to monitor this “self”.
In a little more than a generation, a provocative statement then was met with a smile and returned in kind;
now is perceived as a potential insult quite readily. I am not sure an enlightened Buddha can be insulted.
- Do you consider Buddhism a religion or a philosophy?
- With no deity, and Buddha himself even rejecting the idea of a deity, would you consider yourself atheist?
[QUOTE=Zeriel;16481662 . . . to the Buddhists who posted in this thread who are still active posters on this board.[/QUOTE]
From the time of the Buddha, it was a simple formula to become a “Buddhist”:
I take refuse in the Buddha,
I take refuse in the Dharma,
I take refuse in the Sangha.
Whereas, the Sangha is a practice community centered around a teacher.
so how many Buddhists, here, are there?
-
Buddhism, specifically Zen, was introduced in the US as a World religion at the World’s Parliament of Religions of 1893.
It has been taught as a world religion for last 45 years in US colleges and Universities. thanks to Houston Smith.
It has the legal privileges and protections of a religion in the US. -
The traditional answer is that Buddhism is non-theistic, neither theistic nor atheistic. That is consistent with teachings of being non-dualistic.
I mentioned upstream that there are 2 major schools, Theravada and Mahayana. I mention this again because Mahayana, the one that is really synonymous with Buddhism as the former I think only has around 100M follower, is in many ways a very different animal.
Oneway is that some versions will look to Westerners very much like a religion. Technically these are Bodhisattva worship types but I think it’s common to use the shorthand pureland.It’s not really worship the way we think of it, but let’s not get into that.
There are also aspects of it that can be looked at as falling into Western philosophical categories, but it really goes much deeper than that. For example I was looking at the Lankavatara Sutra I mentioned and earlier and there is the following. The words won’t mean anything, but it gives you an idea of the conceptual structure.
Except I would say that Buddhism is certainly not a philosophy. So what is it is? IDK. I guess not everything has a label.
My US$0.02…
Buddhism, when viewed or practiced as a paradigm for how to live your life, may be thought of as a religion.
Buddhism, when studied as a way to see and interpret the world around you, could be more of a philosophy.
I would consider myself an atheist, but I have been studying Buddhism (Mahayana) for about 7 years. I don’t think that I will ever call myself a Buddhist, at least not in this lifetime, because I’m not ready for that level of commitment to practice. However, I do try to live/think as a Buddhist and practice as much bodhicitta as possible. In fact, I am very thankful for being introduced to the Buddha… it really has had a positive effect on my life and the lives of everyone around me.
It’s true. I’m a Weasel now.
I meditate at home, in a room I set up just for that purpose. I always seem to do better when I am meditating on a regular basis. There is no authority figure I answer to, so I guess it really doesn’t matter whether you call it Buddhism or not.
I suppose whether belief in the dharma is what defines a Buddhist, or whether actions define a Buddhist, is an interesting question.
I really wanted to say it was simultaneously both and neither, but I didn’t want to sound like I was being cute (even though I would have been just the opposite, and no that’s not a bad joke :).)
in this thread, only based on having a Sangha.
be careful with that or we will have one more discussion of “reincarnation”
It is nice to have the legal protection of being a religion. I talked to a refuge from Cambodia years ago, and she would just say the Buddha Dharma. I was told people in Asia have no word for "religion.
turns out to be more of a coach.
Hierarchies and authority seem to be the bane of practice and it can lead to problems in Zen communities,
but it can also be a safe environment to learn how to work with authority figures and structures.
The role of a teacher changes as the student matures.
Moon Meyers, it sounds like you have a lot of experience and many valuable insights to add to the thread. I know I would probably benefit from a teacher. I have been to temples before, but I have social anxiety and it feels really weird to meditate around other people. The last one I attended, the teacher adjusted my sitting position and due to knee problems it was excruciating. I realize these are excellent opportunities for practice, and I would like to work my way toward having a physical Sangha in the future. Right now I’m just trying to solidify the sitting habit.
About ten years ago, when I first started learning about Buddhism, I was coming from a fundamentalist Christian background. As a teen, I was obsessed with religion to an unhealthy degree. I identified the ways that attitude hurt me and it made me decide that whatever new form of spirituality I embraced, I wouldn’t be an extremist about it. If I seem a little too casual, that’s probably why.
But for me, really, Buddhism is not a casual thing in my heart. I think, over time, I have developed something like faith in these concepts of impermanence, equanimity and dissatisfaction. There is something there that goes beyond the rational, though I can’t articulate it very well. Maybe it’s just awe when I see things as they really are. And that awe, if you will, is a result of experience and observing these things time and time again.
I have a close relative who suffers from the same psychological symptoms as I do, but it seems at times she was born awake. Her attention is naturally oriented to the present and she has little difficulty accepting the conditions of her life. She doesn’t suffer from the same existential angst I do. She’s never meditated a day in her life. She’s just that way.
I, on the other hand, am a mess. It is my natural instinct to fight the way things are and to become deeply invested in and emotional about my circumstances. I am a person easily swept away by emotion. I am not a natural Buddhist. It’s a practice I find very challenging because of the kind of person I am. On the outside that might look like a lack of sincerity, but I don’t think that’s the case.
Spice Weasel, I have been impressed with this thread and the people in it. I can see and read the sincerity, and a fair amount of understanding for being solitary sitters. I do not doubt the sincerity one bit.
My practice for years was just doing sesshins without really connecting to Sangha; it worked for a long time and then I learned a couple of things. the practice is not all on the cushion. it is in the kitchen, dining room, work practice, etc. We show each other our weaknesses, and act out to them. Everyone there is working on something and the implicit agreement is we come back and continually show up.
It always has to be your choice and when you are ready. I was one of the cases, when I was ready the teacher appeared. With sincerity, you can trust that. You will know when it is right.
No one can articulate it; even the best teachers can only point to it. We are all messes if we look deep enough. thank you for sharing this thread.
I say all that but my own case was lucky because someone else did the ground work. I was isolated in my work, and my home life was also very isolated. Finally, it got to the point, the alone-ness was just too much. It literally drove me to my knees. I decided to do what everyone else did, look for community in a church. I went to a UU church and the minister had a sitting group. He did the research on different teachers and had made arrangements for a certain teacher to visit and speak to the congregation on a Sunday. I met this teacher, and through a particular interaction decided I could trust him to “fix” my life. He threw it right back at me, and told me, “trust yourself” and I was hooked.
Wow, that is soooo true. This or last month there was an article in Wired about the gurus of Silicon Valley and how Zen is becoming 'institutionalized there. Some of the stuff mentioned (although I could only bear just skimming the article) was such utter bullshit, I feel sorry for the people who have some of those morons as their first window into Buddhism.
I’m not a Buddhist in any way that would synch up with any accepted definitions but it had a more profound influence on me than almost anything else I can think of except maybe quantum mechanics. And on that score, I think they’re both hinting at similar ideas. The true nature of reality is something that defies mundane dichotomies. That true understanding requires being able to let go of the very earth you stand upon and be willing to fall into the abyss.
The Theravada and Mahayana division happened at the 2nd Buddhist Council, 100 years after the death of the Buddha. Within Buddhism there are major sects, and within those, there are different schools. Most of the Mahayana sects are based on a particular sutra but Zen put its emphasis on zazen. The modern day practice term for Theravada is Vipassana or insight meditation. Here is a saying from the Kamakura Period (1185–1333) of Japan:
“Tendai is for the Imperial Court, Shingon for the nobility,
Zen for the warrior and Pure Land for the masses.”
“Branches” I guess is the appropriate moniker:
Actually within Mahayana, the Theravada is often called by the somewhat derogatory name Hinayana.
There were eighteen schools of Buddhism in India. Only the Theravadin remains.
The differences with the Mahayana are: no self vs. emptiness and the Arhat vs. the Bodhisattva ideal. At the same time, the Pali Canon expresses the whole truth found in the Mahayana Sutras. There were two schools of Mahayana Buddhism that had an influence on Zen, the Madhyamaka 2nd century CE and Yogacara 4th century CE.