# Ask the child support officer **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 14, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787 "2009-02-14T04:20:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/61 "2009-02-19T08:44:05Z")
That’s understandable, but then don’t dispute me when I say that “if the man tries to get custody, he is shit outta luck,” and respond with "That’s flat out wrong. " Because one look at my case, or the scores of other such cases on father’s rights sites, will show you that I’m making a reasonable assessment when I posit that the cards are stacked very high against fathers. If a father can’t save his kids from living with a child molester, then I think it’s beyond any reasonable person’s doubt that the system is either blatantly biased or run by retarded monkeys. It’s a shame that this valuable knowledge you posses is apparently so lacking amongst the family law attorneys in California, because if someone knew what you know, maybe we’d have the kids by now. I may sound sarcastic but I am not… we’re so desperate to get a hold of anything, ANY bit of help or advice that will end this insanity. It defies belief. We’ve spent thousands on several different lawyers, and this is as far as we’ve gotten. Something is seriously wrong here, if it is supposedly as easy as you say it is. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/62 "2009-02-19T12:57:37Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Billing statements are a waste of paper, I agree. It is my understanding that we are required to send them out under federal law and they all have the same blah blah on the bottom. When we switched to the computer program we use back in 1997 we were able to stop sending them out if people requested. That lasted only a few months and that ability was removed from programming. > You probably received a Notice of Right to Review this week. Another waste of paper. We review a very select few number of cases (used to be more, budget cuts gutted the review team). However, under Federal law we must send it out. [QUOTE=MissTake] We do have the ability to file federal criminal contempt charges which can lead to time in federal prison - and the feds will sieze everything they can while doing it. [/QUOTE] How does federal law come into the picture? isn’t family law a state matter? ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/63 "2009-02-19T13:10:52Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Then you haven’t spoken to me or a large portion of those I work with. No, it is _NOT_ a prerequisite. IMO, someone could answer the phone sunshine and daisies and you’d still find offense at this point. I don’t know that. And, to contradict you, I’ve been all puppies and honey each time I’ve _attempted_ to contact anyone from your office. I’ve _yet_ to EVER reach anyone on the first call. I’ve always been dumped into voice mail (to contradict another statement of yours). > [@MissTake](#): > > Explain how I am not enforcing the laws as they are on the books at this time? Does, “I vass chust followink orduss” ring a bell? > [@MissTake](#): > > It wasn’t to not overwork is, it was to stave off the rush in the courts. The legislature did put a one year hold on modifications under the new formula, however, some magistrates did use it right off on a case by case basis. > It had **nothing** to do with the child support office. That’s not what they said in the Trib. Or maybe I heard it wrong. If so, I apologize. -BUT- How does that make the entire system look when they say, in effect, “OK, we’ve been screwing up, and we know it, and we’ve fixed it. However, we’re still going to screw you for another year just because we can’t fix our own fuckup any sooner?” > [@MissTake](#): > > Billing statements are a waste of paper, I agree. It is my understanding that we are required to send them out under federal law and they all have the same blah blah on the bottom. When we switched to the computer program we use back in 1997 we were able to stop sending them out if people requested. That lasted only a few months and that ability was removed from programming. > You probably received a Notice of Right to Review this week. Another waste of paper. We review a very select few number of cases (used to be more, budget cuts gutted the review team). However, under Federal law we must send it out. Yeah, everyone knows it’s wrong, it wastes a shitload of money, and nobody wants it. That means it’ll be here forever. > [@MissTake](#): > > I apologize. Adding a “h” is not as bad as being called names, but whatever. I’d think that some attention to detail might be important in your job, but whatever. > [@MissTake](#): > > How she spent the money has nothing to do with the child support office. It’s between you and your ex. As noted above, organizations have tried to get laws passed requiring accountability, and the legislature has shot them down every time. It is NOT a child support office issue. It’s a logistic issue in the courts. Can you even begin to image how many motions would be filed if something like that passed? There is not enough court time as it is. See? See the arrogance? You’re epitomizing exactly what I’ve said: You don’t give a damn about the payers or the kids; you’re just invested in the _process._ As long as the money passes through your hands, then tough noogies. No matter what anyone says, your response is “Take it back to court.” And you couple that with, “There isn’t enough court time as it is.” Your office was correct: There is no justice or fairness in your building. Well, goddamn it, _there has to be time for justice and reason!_ It couldn’t take more than one afternoon for a couple of intelligent people to come to the conclusion that basing child support on a percentage of what a person earns is ludicrous and that a more accurate measurement could be made based on actual costs. But that would require someone to actually think. But I have a solution! Instead of your salaries…simply fire you all and spread the wealth among the poor kids that aren’t receiving any support. It would save the state a ton of money, and the kids would get the support they need. Everybody is happy. Anyway, I’m nearing the end of the child support debacle, and it’s too aggravating to dwell on further. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/64 "2009-02-19T16:16:16Z")
Rysdad, I think you’re being unreasonable. I understand you are very frustrated with the situation that you are in, but ultimately child support officers cannot make new laws and cannot just overturn court decrees (because of ‘common sense’ or otherwise). It would be a ridiculous system if they had such power! MissTake has no authority to do these things that you are asking. If your kid gets arrested and gets a jail sentence for having a joint in his pocket, is it the fault of the arresting officer that the sentence is too harsh? ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/65 "2009-02-19T17:39:00Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Rysdad, I think you’re being unreasonable. I understand you are very frustrated with the situation that you are in, but ultimately child support officers cannot make new laws and cannot just overturn court decrees (because of ‘common sense’ or otherwise). It would be a ridiculous system if they had such power! MissTake has no authority to do these things that you are asking. As I said before, if she’s part of the process, she’s part of the problem. That, and the fact that each and every contact I’ve had _with her particular office_ has resulted in me being treated disrespectfully. (This includes a period when the money was being deducted from my paycheck but wasn’t being received by my ex-. I was told that that was “impossible.” I had to take a day off from work to prove it.) > [@fluiddruid](#): > > If your kid gets arrested and gets a jail sentence for having a joint in his pocket, is it the fault of the arresting officer that the sentence is too harsh? If he gets a jail sentence for a joint, that means the arresting officer must’ve planted more weed on him in order to reach a level that results in a jail sentence, so, yeah, it’s his fault. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/66 "2009-02-20T02:55:59Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Easy - just like there are child support guidelines, there could be child care expense guidelines. It would be relatively easy to come up with an average amount that it costs to provide for a child of a given age - things like food and clothing, housing and utility expenses. One might ask, well who is to decide what’s fair, etc…? Well, the government decides many things like this for us: how much tax we pay, how much welfare or assistance we can get, how much a man must pay for CS… The average amount of money that it costs to raise a child is a observable, tangible amount that can be studied and averaged. Heck, I have seen such lists in baby care books detailing how much it costs per year to raise a child at each age. Surely the great minds of the government could come up with something fair – because right now, the way the system is, it is NOT fair. I feel that far too many women are using CS as their own wages, or as their own spending money. Child support guidelines, as you describe, are child care expense guidelines. IME, the court doesn’t order a line cook making $12/hour pay for a child to go to some chichi daycare just because the custodial parent thinks it’s best for the child. Minnesota does have what it considers an average cost to raise a child, but I do not have that number in front of me. I will look it up tomorrow and post it tomorrow evening. What I hear more of is “She spent the money on X when it should have gone to Y”. You and I may BOTH agree that the money should have been spent on Y; however, there isn’t a vehicle other than bringing the case back into court to resolve it. Again, accountability has been proposed multiple times to our legislature and shot down by the courts. The vindictiveness of people amaze me daily. People will call the cops on the other party just prior to visitation if they know a bench warrant is out there or if the other party is driving after license suspension. Sometimes they will wait until the children are in the car just to show the kid what a “bad” person mommy/daddy is. Payor has a new flame? I want him/her in jail NOW. Heaven forbid s/he has another child with someone else. I don’t want MY child support going to THAT person, lock the payor up NOW. Conversely, s/he has a wo/man in their life, let THAT person pay for my kid. Why should I pay support? The custodial parent married rich. If we were to add a requirement that the custodial parent must prove where the support goes to - all hell would break loose, IMO. And that’s beyond the fact that our computer system doesn’t have the ability to track things such as that, and it doesn’t look like it’s going to be upgraded anytime soon. > [@](#): > > The “system” offers opportunistic women a relatively easy way to get income without working - just have a kid by a guy with a job, and get paid to sit at home with your kids all day. And if the man tries to get custody, he is shit outta luck - everyone knows they won’t give the man custody unless there is outrageous abuse or addiction on the mother’s part. Even if a father tries from Day One to get custody of an infant - the mother can just claim she’s breastfeeding, and the man is SOL. Then when the kid is weaned, the mother can just claim that the kid’s already used to her, so it would be detrimental to send the kid to the father (this exact situation happened to a friend of mine). So on, and so forth. The fathers don’t stand a chance unless the mother fucks up big time. And even then, he needs deep pockets for legal expenses. It’s a lose-lose-lose for fathers everywhere. > > Something has to be done to fix the inequity of the system!! And I agree with you again. I do not like people who use child support as wages. In Minnesota it _IS_ getting better. In child support nationwide it is moving slowly forward, but it’s a twenty ton elephant on valium. It takes men who will not let the court bully them, will take things to higher courts, who bring the media in to get changes made. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/67 "2009-02-20T03:20:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > How does federal law come into the picture? isn’t family law a state matter? All states are required to abide by federal [Title IV-D](http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title04/0400.htm) laws. The feds, who pay the the majority of the child support budget, set a standard and then the states take the basic framework and add their statutes to create the child support program. Even within the state you will find individual counties do things a bit different, but still under the auspices of the state statutes and federal laws. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/68 "2009-02-20T03:49:48Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > I don’t know that. And, to contradict you, I’ve been all puppies and honey each time I’ve _attempted_ to contact anyone from your office. I’ve _yet_ to EVER reach anyone on the first call. I’ve always been dumped into voice mail (to contradict another statement of yours). Did you maybe think that your child support officer was already on the phone when you called? I was phones today. 67 calls. The shortest call was about 10 minutes. This is on a team where the payor doesn’t pay. The paying teams can get up to 200 calls per day in a team of 4 workers. Granted, they’re often shorter calls, but nonetheless. I will be returning calls all day tomorrow, because that’s just the way it is. > [@](#): > > Does, “I vass chust followink orduss” ring a bell? Yes, it does. And because I value my job I do follow the rules as laid out in the terms of my employment. Don’t you do the same at your job? > [@](#): > > -BUT- How does that make the entire system look when they say, in effect, “OK, we’ve been screwing up, and we know it, and we’ve fixed it. However, we’re still going to screw you for another year just because we can’t fix our own fuckup any sooner?” I don’t disagree with you. The way it was set up was that effective 01/01/07 all NEW orders were to be set under the new laws. Every week for I don’t know how many months we’d receive memos stating “The new laws will state this” then we’d receive another memo saying “Strike that, instead the new laws will state _this_”. The judges / referees / magistrates needed time to learn a whole new way of calculating support. If a person came in 01/02/07 and filed a modification the court _at its’ discretion_ could review the order under either the old process or the new one. Some robed wonders were up to date and knew what was going on. Some weren’t. In December 2006 the child support officers spent quite a bit of time in training to learn how to enter new orders with all their variables now allowed. Hell, it was like school again having to take tests almost daily. We were ready to roll 01/01/07. > [@](#): > > I’d think that some attention to detail might be important in your job, but whatever. I’m not at my job when I’m responding here. You’ve _never_ screwed up a name? Congratulations. > [@](#): > > See? See the arrogance? You’re epitomizing exactly what I’ve said: You don’t give a damn about the payers or the kids; you’re just invested in the _process._ As long as the money passes through your hands, then tough noogies. No matter what anyone says, your response is “Take it back to court.” > > And you couple that with, “There isn’t enough court time as it is.” > > Your office was correct: There is no justice or fairness in your building. > > Well, goddamn it, _there has to be time for justice and reason!_ It couldn’t take more than one afternoon for a couple of intelligent people to come to the conclusion that basing child support on a percentage of what a person earns is ludicrous and that a more accurate measurement could be made based on actual costs. What do you want me to say? Obviously, nothing I could say could budge your opinion of our agency. I **DO** give a damn about my clients - men / women / children. I will do anything _AS ALLOWED BY THE STATUTES AND THE COUNTY RULES_ to help my people. I can only go by what the courts have ordered, even if I disagree with it. All I CAN tell a person is to file a motion. I can (and have) complained to the powers that be that the courts are too far behind to be useful, but I do not have control over the courts. > [@](#): > > Instead of your salaries…simply fire you all and spread the wealth among the poor kids that aren’t receiving any support. It would save the state a ton of money, and the kids would get the support they need. Everybody is happy. Cool! Then maybe I’d see some child support! Actually, for every dollar spent in Hennepin County to collect support, over $4 is received and sent out to the other party. We’re the only social service agency that is cost efficient. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/69 "2009-02-20T06:40:11Z")
Do deviations from the state’s schedule cause problems? When my brother went through his divorce, his ex wanted a flat dollar amount. He wanted to have support by schedule with a cap, but his lawyer advised that this could cause problems with the state’s child support division. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/70 "2009-02-20T06:51:07Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > Do deviations from the state’s schedule cause problems? When my brother went through his divorce, his ex wanted a flat dollar amount. He wanted to have support by schedule with a cap, but his lawyer advised that this could cause problems with the state’s child support division. In my state, as long as the child is not receiving public assistance–food stamps or medicaid–there is no requirement for the money to go through the state agency at all. However, if the Judge orders an amount more or less than the guidelines, he’s required to make specific findings of fact to support the deviation from the guidelines–such as special medical needs. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/71 "2009-02-21T23:00:38Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > But, is it an insult or an analogy? Both. And that remark about “followink orders” was not well advised. You aren’t winning any friends or influencing any people here, dude. **Miss Take** , do you see any difference in the degree of cooperation among the so-called red states and blue states? I would’ve suspected the Republican fund their child support enforcers less well than do Democratic states, but Illinois, which you mentioned tangentially earlier, is a blue state according to [electoralvote.com](http://electoralvote.com). ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/72 "2009-02-22T01:27:28Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > Do deviations from the state’s schedule cause problems? When my brother went through his divorce, his ex wanted a flat dollar amount. He wanted to have support by schedule with a cap, but his lawyer advised that this could cause problems with the state’s child support division. As long as what is ordered is a set amount, not a variable precentage, it’s not a problem. If we know a payors income and an order is whatever percentage of the income, we enter it as a flat sum. However, if there is fluxuation in the payors income, it becomes difficult to monitor. The courts tend to order a percentage paid of child care, not a sum certain. In cases where that has been ordered we request receipts quarterly and mondify the set amount then. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/73 "2009-02-22T01:28:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > In my state, as long as the child is not receiving public assistance–food stamps or medicaid–there is no requirement for the money to go through the state agency at all. However, if the Judge orders an amount more or less than the guidelines, he’s required to make specific findings of fact to support the deviation from the guidelines–such as special medical needs. Same as here in Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/74 "2009-02-22T01:35:46Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > [D]o you see any difference in the degree of cooperation among the so-called red states and blue states? I would’ve suspected the Republican fund their child support enforcers less well than do Democratic states, but Illinois, which you mentioned tangentially earlier, is a blue state according to [electoralvote.com](http://electoralvote.com). No, there really isn’t a difference between whether a state is red or blue. The difference comes in how well the state runs its’ human/social service programs - especially welfare. I snarkily noted Illinois primarily due to Cook County. Send a case there and you’ll never see it again. They are very behind is everything simply beacuse there isn’t enough money to fund the programs. My cousin works for the child support program in whatever county San Jose, California is in. They are behind the times also. But then you have Alaska, who has always been ahead of the curve in implementing new technology and trying new things. It’s a crap shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/75 "2009-02-22T03:16:08Z")
This is all very interesting, thank you again for taking the time to answer these questions **MissTake**. With bankruptcies all over the news, it made me wonder what, if anything, happens when a payor goes bankrupt? Also, if child support enforcement comes into play when the custodial parent files for public assistance, is there anything that happens if the non-custodial parent goes on assistance? I understand that they could file to have their child support reduced, if they are on SSI or whatever then presumably they’re earning less than when the amount was set, but is there anything that causes a portion of their assistance to go to child support payments? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/76 "2009-02-22T03:23:11Z")
Child support is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. A person that files for bankruptcy gets the benefit of the “Automatic Stay”–ie. collection actions against them must stop at least temporarily, but the Stay can be lifted for purposes of collecting child support. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/77 "2009-02-22T04:25:34Z")
By getting rid of other debts, the bankrupt is better able to pay child support. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/78 "2009-02-22T04:35:54Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Both. And that remark about “followink orders” was not well advised. You aren’t winning any friends or influencing any people here, dude. Gee, and I was _so_ hoping… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/79 "2009-02-22T04:39:21Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Same as here in Minnesota. I was told that, as long as a person is employed, there was no option–the money MUST be deducted from the paycheck…or were you referring to the justification of deviation from the guidelines? ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787/80 "2009-02-22T14:33:42Z")
One more question…how many Hennepin County Support and Collections Officers are there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-child-support-officer/485787.md?page=5)