# Ask the comic guy.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415 "2003-01-09T01:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/461 "2003-02-14T00:19:05Z")
Mostly not – although I haven’t read any of Man-Thing’s starring appearances, I’ve seen him in a handful of other books. Primarily he’s a shambling mound who exhibits essentially no intelligence at all. Man-Thing was written by Steve Gerber for quite a while in the 70’s and I understand the book was highly regarded at the time (although not as highly as Gerber’s idiosyncratic Howard the Duck). The back issues are surprsingly expensive, moreso than most of the Marvels from that era, but that may be because of the presence of a Howard back-up strip. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/462 "2003-02-14T00:54:20Z")
(Giant Size) Man-Thing was Ted Salis (or was that Swamp Thing)? Regardless, he was a scientist working on reproducing the super-soldier serum in his lab in the Everglades (where all good super soldier serums are developed.) Anyhow, accident ensues (invaded by govt., explosion, someone will correct me soon enough, I’m sure) and he stumbles out into the swamp where he becomes a…thing. He’s not so much sentient as he is purely empathetic. He’s drawn to emotions. Happy thoughts, love, kindness feel pleasurable and he longs to be near them. Hatred, greed, fear cause him pain and he lashes out at the source, which tends to generate more fear. Whatever knows fear burns at Man-Things touch! I don’t think Howard the Duck ever burned; he’d seen too many weird things to be phased. And I don’t know if they ever met, but I doubt Hulk would be afraid of Man-Thing so the burning touch wouldn’t affect him. Be interesting to see how Daredevil (The Man without Fear) would handle himself. It used to burn when I touched my man-thing, but the doctor gave me a shot for it. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/463 "2003-02-14T00:54:33Z")
Man-Thing was a scientist named Ted Sallis who was working on a re-creation of the serum that created Captain America. When some…uh…evil guys (were they Nazis? Thugs?) broke into the lab he was working at, Sallis fled and injected the serum into himself to prevent its capture. This all happened in a swamp that was the “Nexus of All Realities”…apparently some place where different dimensions linked together. The mystic energies in the swamp water mingled with the formula and turned Sallis into…well, a big, scary, pile of moss. There’s not much of Sallis in there; the classic versions had the Man-Thing portrayed as a mindless shamble that acted on instinct only. There’s a great parody of Man-Thing in CEREBUS #19-20, by the way, in which a mad sorcerer (named Charles X. Claremont, of all things) summons a familiar creature, and can control it with a spell, “Whomever knows \_\_\_\_\_ shall burn at the creature’s touch.” There’s a hysterical discussion of the various words different sorcerers used, my favorite being “me.” ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/464 "2003-02-14T00:59:07Z")
Max and I are on the same page, it seems. The Hulk DID fight Man-Thing on several occassions, including one in which Thingy grabbed him by the head. Hulk got nervous, and burned (although all it really did was burn off all of his hair). Also, I just remembered an occassion where Thingy HIMSELF became afraid. His reaction was, I’m not kidding, to stick his hand on his face and torch himself. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/465 "2003-02-14T01:34:41Z")
Both Man-Thing and Swamp Thing were based on The Heap, who shambled through Hillman comics from WWII until the Comics Code kicked in. Solomon Grundy is also in the family. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/466 "2003-02-14T02:16:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sock Munkey \* > \*\*I always wondered how Batman would act if he were given super powers of some kind. Was this ever done? \*\* I seem to recall that there was a proto-“elseworlds” book where Batman was chosen as the next Green Lantern. I’ll try and find the link, but don’t get your hopes up-my files are pretty disorganized. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/467 "2003-02-14T02:34:35Z")
Ranchoth: I think the story was titiled “In Blackest Night” or a similar variant. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/468 "2003-02-14T02:52:28Z")
Oops. Batman: In Darkest Knight Wherein the brooding Bruce Wayne is summoned by Abin Sur rather than being startled by a bat. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/469 "2003-02-14T03:16:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrFidelius \* > \*\*Both Man-Thing and Swamp Thing were based on The Heap, who shambled through Hillman comics from WWII until the Comics Code kicked in. Solomon Grundy is also in the family. \*\* And they were all based on Theodore Sturgeon’s classic story **It**. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/470 "2003-02-14T05:06:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Has there ever been a serious effort, usng a mainstream character, to show the downside of heightened senses? I have some Frank Miller Daredevil issue where he’s laying in a cheap motel and decribing all the horrible things he can hear around him and can’t shut out. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/471 "2003-02-14T14:37:18Z")
There was a movie called “The Trial Of The Incredible Hulk” where the Hulk teamed up with Daredevil and DD was lured into a trap where he was disabled by loudspeakers. On another note I love the way they did DD’s costme in the new movie, the red leather is much more “him” than spandex would be and it looks more like the way his costme was shaded in the comics. And now a question, WHY are so many super-heroes and villans shown in the shorts-over-tights look? It’s been that way since the golden age. It makes it look like everyone is saying “hey lookit my colorful crotch!” What did the comics code say about it back then? BTW what was the heap? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/472 "2003-02-14T22:54:57Z")
The Heap was essentially a Man-Thing type. He showed up briefly in Swamp-Thing (unofficially) as a member of the Parliment of Trees. Swampy and Man-Thing looks like one of those Vision/Red Tornado coincidences…they showed up within a few months of each other. And the shorts-on-the-outside thing is because Siegel and Shuster were thinking of a trapeeze artist/circus acrobat when creating Superman Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/473 "2003-02-14T23:23:24Z")
Okay… Solomon Grundy pre-dates The Heap. 1st Appearance of Solomon Grundy: All-American Comics #61 (October 1944) 1st Apparance of The Heap: Airboy #4 (? 1945) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/474 "2003-02-14T23:32:50Z")
But I dunno how much Solomon Grundy fits the archetype: Fire+swamp+corpse=inarticulate shambling man-monster. Solomon Grundy didn’t have the fire, and he wasn’t inarticulate. And either way, Theodore Sturgeon’s “It”, from 1940 beats 'em all! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/475 "2003-02-15T02:06:59Z")
I mentioned Sol as being in the same family through the corpse+swamp connection. The Heap was dead for quite a while before he (it) shambled forth, and I don’t recall any fire involved in his (it’s?) origin. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/476 "2003-02-15T02:27:55Z")
Fenris: If I recall Vietch’s Sprout story line correctly from Swamp Thing, the Parliament of Trees considered Solomon Grundy a candidate for the next incarnation of Swamp Thing, and,indeed, helped Grund try to kill Swampy. That would seem to imply that Grundy can be considered a member of the family of icky swamp creatures that we love. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/477 "2003-02-15T03:01:50Z")
**Dr.F** : Didn’t the pre-Heap crash a plane into the swamp? Or am I thinking of something else…I’d swear I remembered a WW1 era plane crash. **Peyote** , later on, another writer (not nearly in Veitch’s class) said that Grundy was a Fungus elemental (and mentioned the lack of fire). Fenris ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/478 "2003-02-15T03:07:02Z")
Fenris: You might be thinking of the Veitch time-travel story where Swampy did indeed take over? possess? the body of an aviator who crashed near the Hammer of Hell’s castle. As for the rest of your post, eek! there’s a fungus among us. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/479 "2003-02-15T03:09:10Z")
> [@](#): > > In The Heap’s case, the man in the muck was Baron von Emmelmann, who had everything to live for — wealth, social position, loving wife, baby he hadn’t yet seen, etc. — when, on October 12, 1918, his plane was shot down over Poland’s Wausau Swamp. Lying lifeless as his body slowly merged with the morass, he had nothing left but his will to live, to rise, to return to the world of humans. It took more than 20 years, but rise he did per _Don Markstein’s Toonopedia_™ Cold swamp water rather than fire seems to be the main ingredient. Not much at all like the “chemicals+fire/doused in the swamp” of Swampie and Man-Thing for my money. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/480 "2003-02-15T03:11:40Z")
…You know, in real life I hardly ever get into conversations about swamp creatures, nor do I find I get an opportunity to use the word “shambling” very often… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415.md?page=25)