# Ask the comic guy.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415 "2003-01-09T01:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/781 "2003-04-10T19:16:52Z")
Regarding Miracleman, you can buy the TP’s of Alan Moore’s run and the issues that Neil Gaiman did on e-bay, but they can get a bit pricy. I managed to pick up a TP of the Olympus story arc, including the infamous issue #15 at my local comic shop about 5 years ago. No chance of that now.☹ As far as the rights go, I recently read on one of the comic websites, (sorry, can’t recall which one) that Gaiman and McFarlane had reached an agreement whereby Gaiman would get the rights to Miracleman in exchange for McFarlane getting the rights to the Spawn characters that Gaiman created. I read that about a month ago, haven’t heard anything else since. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/782 "2003-04-10T19:19:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*I’ve got an issue from each arc. I knew there were legal problems. But, I had no idea they were this bad. \*\* They’re even worse. Doing some research, I stumbled across [this account by Alan Davis](http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=610), who’s (justifiably, IMO) upset by the whole situation. And even MORE on the situation [here](http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=567) It’s sad. It’s probably one of the 5 most important books of the '80s (far more so than Watchmen or Swamp Thing, both of which are very important) and I’m pretty much at the conclusion that they’ll NEVER be reprinted. \*\* > [@](#): > > Re-Mr Cream > > Just why does he have sapphire teeth? And why did they pick the name Cream? \*\* It’s never explained. He’s a big, jolly-looking black guy who’s a tough-as-nails spy/special ops type who wears a white suit…and his teeth are sapphires. I dunno why. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/783 "2003-04-10T19:23:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > \*\*Regarding Miracleman, you can buy the TP’s of Alan Moore’s run and the issues that Neil Gaiman did on e-bay, but they can get a bit pricy. I managed to pick up a TP of the Olympus story arc, including the infamous issue #15 at my local comic shop about 5 years ago. No chance of that now.☹ \*\* Yeah, and the TPs are available on eBay, but Olympus goes for upwards of $150.00 and a bunch of 'em are kinda musty and weird, as Eclipse comics had a flood that damaged a bunch of them. \*\* > [@](#): > > As far as the rights go, I recently read on one of the comic websites, (sorry, can’t recall which one) that Gaiman and McFarlane had reached an agreement whereby Gaiman would get the rights to Miracleman in exchange for McFarlane getting the rights to the Spawn characters that Gaiman created. I read that about a month ago, haven’t heard anything else since. \*\* That agreement from 1997 is part of the reason Gaiman sued McFarlane as McFarlane grossly breached the agreement. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/784 "2003-04-10T19:34:12Z")
Completely tangential question: When did Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy first time travel to the present-day Marvel Universe? Are they stuck there? ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/785 "2003-04-10T20:21:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > > * * * > > That agreement from 1997 is part of the reason Gaiman sued McFarlane as McFarlane grossly breached the agreement. \*\* I understand that, but the stuff I read was after the verdict in the trial came down and it seemed to say that this was how the two were going to try and resolve the "_who had the rights to what characters_ issue. Fenris, How on God’s earth do you know so much about comic books? Do you own a comic book store? Are you in the business? It seems to me like you’ve read virtually every comic by almost every comic book company that has been published in the last 40 years!!!:eek: A question: At the end of issue #7 of Crisis On Infinite Earths, there is a quote from something called the **Declaration of the Free**. I’ve googled but haven’t come up with anything. Is it something that was written by Marv Wolfman specifically for that issue? (This has been slowly driving me insane for about 10 years.😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/786 "2003-04-10T20:35:37Z")
I know hot get MiracleMan reprinted!!! It’s so obvious! First, I realized that Fenris is right. Currently, things are so confused that it can never be reprinted. But, look at how things started out. MarvelMan was originally created by a British company as a cheap copy of Captain Marvel. The original property, is arguably an illegal copyright violation to begin with. As such, Fawcet has the right to sue. After winning in court, they offer to take the rights to the MarvelMan characters and material instead of money. Fawcet then seizes all of the 80’s MarvelMan material as a violation of their copyright. Finally, Fawcet grants Moore and Gaiman part ownership of the rights in exchange for their continued work on the series. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/787 "2003-04-10T21:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **Fenris, > How on God’s earth do you know so much about comic books? Do you own a comic book store? Are you in the business?** Or are you just a doper, just a reg’lar guy like all the other dopers, the workin’ class grunts who lay their lives on the line every day for truth, justice and the logical way – who fight ignorance in real life AND on the four-color Mando Silver-Age sized page, and never ask for thanks – or a medal or a saltine or even a personal wake-up call from Cecil. I figger that’s the kinda galoot we gots 'round here, and I’m proud to rub shoulders with alla yuz. ps: How 'bout that [Brain Boy](http://voom.si.edu/) ? (Click on his picture at the Smithsonian page to see a beautifully inked BB page) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/788 "2003-04-10T21:59:18Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s sad. It’s probably one of the 5 most important books of the '80s (far more so than Watchmen or Swamp Thing, both of which are very important) and I’m pretty much at the conclusion that they’ll NEVER be reprinted. I’m genuinely curious, Fenris. How do you justify the above quote? More important than Swampy and the Watchmen? I wouldn’t have thought that possible. P.S. You have made me sorry I missed Miracleman when it came out. Our tastes seem similar. When my economic situation improves, I will have to check out some books. ---
**Author:** ![MusicJunkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@MusicJunkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicJunkie)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/789 "2003-04-10T22:43:36Z")
Thanks everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/790 "2003-04-10T23:35:27Z")
Miracleman preceeded both Swampy and Watchmen and Swampy and Watchmen in large part were reiterations of what Moore had already done in Miracleman. Swampy was the first well known story of the '80s where “Everything you know about this character is wrong.” with the revelations in Moore’s second issue “The Anatomy Lesson”. However, Moore had done it first in Miracleman, when it turned out that the origin that British readers were used to (The guy who discovered the “Key Harmonic to the Universe”) was all a Virtual Reality induced fiction created by Gargunza who’d seen a copy of a Captain Marvel comic that a MP had at the military base where he was working In Watchmen, we get the theme that the presence of super-heroes change the world radically. This one I can’t justify as easily since that theme wasn’t explored until Gaiman took over the book, _after_ Watchmen. However, apparently it was Moore’s intent all along to deal with that…so… Plus, as much as I loved the writing in Watchmen, it never quite…I dunno…connected with me the way that Miracleman did. Watchmen had an almost detached “Lookit me! See how clever I’m being” (and they WERE being clever. Even now on rereads I find stuff I never noticed before) sort of distance. Miracleman was much more…um…“in your face” if you’ll pardon the expression. It seemed a more powerful statement than Watchmen did…or at least more personal. Remember, the original stories in Warrior appeared circa 1983 or so. That means they _preceed_ Dark Knight and Miller’s Daredevil and the entire “grim-n-gritty” crop of comics that sprang up in part in response to the original Miracleman stories. PS, **Peyton’s**. I worked at a comic book store from like age 11 to age 24 or so. But what **digs** said is more accurate. Except for the bit about the saltines. I expect saltines. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/791 "2003-04-11T00:01:28Z")
Thank you for the explanaton, Fenris. However, IMO, the inventor of grim and gritty was Will Eisner, 'way back in the '40’s and early '50’s. Check out “Vortex” from 1946, the classic Spirit vs. The Octopus three-parter from 1948, “Lorelei Rox” from the same year, and “Ten Minutes” from 1950. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/792 "2003-04-11T00:31:12Z")
True, (although I don’t remember the specific Spirit stories (I only read The Spirit stuff once, it wasn’t a complete collection and they all sorta blurred into one big lump) and you can argue that Spider-Man #31-33 and Ditko’s Question stories did Grim-n-Gritty for the '60s. (In the seventies, we were just too damn sensitive to have grim-n-gritty, so we had “revelvance” instead. Bleach…unless you count those Michael Fleisher Spectres. And I’m not sure I do.) Each decade (give or take) reinvents a lot of stuff. I’ll stand by the idea that grim-n-gritty for the '80s came from Miracleman. And if we want to quibble, (and what’s this thread ABOUT if not quibbling? 😉 😛 ) I could make the case that the Comet/Hangman story from Pep Comics #17 circa 1941 (to put it in perspective, Archie didn’t appear 'till Pep #22). There was a (fairly lame) character named The Comet. In Pep #17, he got snuffed and his brother vowed Punisher-like vengance against criminals and proceeded to butcher them for about 4 years. (Batman may have been dark, but he was rarely grim-n-gritty) The Spirit showed up before The Hangman, but the earlier Spirits (IIRC, of course) had a “not taking ourselves entirely seriously” touch that counteracted the grim-n-grittiness. YMMV, of course. 🙂 Fenris ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/793 "2003-04-11T00:42:44Z")
I don’t know that I want to argue with you, Fenris. You’ve read too many books that I’ve only heard of. I’ll also have to admit the Spirit was light-hearted most of the time, but Eisner got brutal when he wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/794 "2003-04-11T01:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Peyote Coyote \* > \*\*I’ll also have to admit the Spirit was light-hearted most of the time, but Eisner got brutal when he wanted to. \*\* True from what I’ve heard: I’m woefully underread on Eisner. Are you (or anyone else out there) getting the Spirit Archives? Are they up to DC’s usual standards? I’d love to read all the Spirits in order. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/795 "2003-04-11T02:59:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Peyote Coyote \* > \*\*(bump) \*\* I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve never heard of this character Chunk- Chester P Runk, morbidly obese man capable of teleporting things to the “Chunk Dimension” Doop- A floating lima/jelly bean/lump of silly putty guy. A member of Alred’s X Force Pumpy-A nickname Lord Pumpkin went by during a period when he’d lost both his candle and memory. The Gummi Bears- Did Star or Disney ever do a series on them? Blimp-Was a member of the Inferior Five Plop-Had covers by Basil Wolverton and horror parody tales by Serio Aragones Beepie-was comedy sidekick robot to solar man Emp-is an immortal warlord from the planet Khera. Blip-was a comic sized magazine about videogames published in the late '70s and early 80’s But sadly, I know not the significance of this Bump you speak of:( ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/796 "2003-04-11T18:07:17Z")
**Fenris** , or any of the other comic officianados, I’m wondering what you think of [this column by Michael Medved in National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-medved040403.asp) Does he have his head up his ass? More jingoistic, “_if you’re not with us, you are evil and the enemy_” type stuff? I didn’t read any of Captain America issues that he talks about, so ican’t really comment, but I’ll wager at least one of you can. ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/797 "2003-04-11T18:10:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*True from what I’ve heard: I’m woefully underread on Eisner. Are you (or anyone else out there) getting the Spirit Archives? Are they up to DC’s usual standards? > > I’d love to read all the Spirits in order. \*\* Yes, they are very well done, just like the rest of the various Archives collections. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/798 "2003-04-12T01:38:38Z")
DocCathode: Keep reading, boy. 😃 Fenris: No, I am not buying any comics at present. When the Coyote is sober, the Coyote is strapped. However, years ago, Kitchen Sink Press reprinted, in 32-page comics, Eisner’s post-WW2 Spirits and I have nearly every issue from 1-56. These cover the period from very late 1945 through 1950 or 1951, and, IMO, are utterly fantastic. I also have a few extra-sized comics Kitchen Sink issued before the regular-sized Spirits. These skip around a lot, but do reprint some of the Spirits Eisner did before being drafted. I also have the first 5 of 6 Kitchen Sink Press Will Eisner quarterlies which contain both pre- and post-service Spirits. IMO, the issues of the Spirit Eisner did before being drafted are pretty damn good. They’re generally light-hearted, but the artwork is very fine. The post-WW2 Spirits are incredible; IMO, they hold their own against Gaiman and Moore and anybody else. The range of Eisner’s storytelling abilities and the range of artistic experiments his shop tried will take your breath away. If DC is re-issuing the Spirits in order, I would get the issues, especially those reprinting the post-WW2 issues. I think a man who loves comics as much as you do will flip when you see them. I am uncertain of the quality of the Spirits done when Eisner was in the service. The Kitchen Sink reprints contained commentary by cat yronwoode and others, and they did not seem to have a very good opinion of the non-Eisner Spirits, even though some of them were written by Manly Wade Wellman. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/799 "2003-04-12T01:44:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Fenris, or any of the other comic officianados, I’m wondering what you think of this column by Michael Medved in National Review > > Does he have his head up his ass? More jingoistic, “if you’re not with us, you are evil and the enemy” type stuff? > > I didn’t read any of Captain America issues that he talks about, so ican’t really comment, but I’ll wager at least one of you can. Sorry, I stopped reading Captain America twice before. Once when he became disgusted with the policies of the US gummint and became Nomad (and put on a nifty black uniform), and then again about 15 years later when he was hounded out of his uniform by an evil US gummint committee (and put on a different nifty black uniform). \His penchant for black uniforms when out of his US gummint issued duds makes me wonder if he secretly harboured sympathy for Himmler’s SS.\ Overly simplistic anti-American tirades are nothing new to the character. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415/800 "2003-04-12T06:20:15Z")
**Peyote Coyote** I realized that you may also be referring to Bamf. This charming, Smurf-like character appeared in a fairy tale told by Kitty Pryde. Mix equal parts Smruf and Nightcrawler, and you have Bamf. In Nightcrawler’s first limited series, he met an entire village of Bamfs. The miniseries was also the only appearance of the evil, and orange, Dark Bamf. Re-Money For Comics You say that when sober, you cannot afford comics. The solution is obvious. Avoid sobriety. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-comic-guy/147415.md?page=41)