# Ask the conspiracy theorist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012 "2012-10-27T05:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/501 "2013-01-29T17:39:48Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The US could have done it under the condition of trying him in a UN court or a Nuremberg-type court. And the US wanted him “turned over”. > > So why not have something that would have satisfied everybody? And then have the UN or a Nuremberg-type court put him on trial? Do you read what you are writing? We _are_ trying people in a Nuremberg-type court. Its at Guantanamo Bay. But we needed to have people in custody first in order to try them. It is not legal under US Federal law to try someone in absentia. And I’ll let you in on a little secret. The Taliban and a lot of others are not satisfied with a Nuremburg-type court. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/502 "2013-01-29T18:16:23Z")
I suppose the more central issue here, **Kozmik** , is that I’d like you to see the ridiculous lengths you’re going to justify the actions of your conspiracy. It’s not just byzantine, it’s pointless. The simpler explanation almost always works better, so like other posters have suggested, if the actions of the conspiracy are indistinguishable from real world chaos, you are looking at real world chaos, not a conspiracy that imitates real world chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/503 "2013-01-29T19:14:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In other words you can’t assure me that anyone would know. Kerry and Bush got the message. > [@Marley23](#): > > Why? Had the missle crisis not been resolved, it would have been detrimental to other world leaders, particularly Castro and Khrushchev. > [@Marley23](#): > > In the era of mass communication, yes. Presidents have regularly employed speechwriters since the days of FDR, and it only stands to reason that their role has increased as the demands on the president’s time and the volume of speeches has increased. And this is not just an inference I’m making, you could confirm that by yourself if you were interested. How could I confirm that? > [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t say every president always has But you seem to be saying that every president always will. > [@Marley23](#): > > Cite please. I don’t have a cite for that. Do you? Are you saying that the claim that they didn’t share evidence is absurd? Who would they share it with? > [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know what you are saying here. Are you saying there was no evidence for the Iraq War? That’s false: there was evidence, it was just shoddy. In fact I would expect have expected a global conspiracy to do a better job coming up with evidence. _Explain yourself in full sentences._ I’ll explain myself in full sentences. In 16 words to be exact. “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” > [@Marley23](#): > > He denied responsibility early on, and later acknowledged it :dubious: > [@Marley23](#): > > I suppose the more central issue here, **Kozmik** , is that I’d like you to see the ridiculous lengths you’re going to justify the actions of your conspiracy. It’s not just byzantine, it’s pointless. The simpler explanation almost always works better, so like other posters have suggested, if the actions of the conspiracy are indistinguishable from real world chaos, you are looking at real world chaos, not a conspiracy that imitates real world chaos. Have you never heard of order out of chaos? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/504 "2013-01-29T19:15:30Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > By this logic, why don’t you make a movie exposing the Illuminati in order to spread the truth? Because I want to keep everything here. I’d rather expose them in this thread than in a movie. > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > The members of the Illuminati don’t commit murder, etc. > Instead, they manipulate non-illuminati members into committing murder, etc. > Those non-members don’t realize that they are being manipulated. > > Is this right? Yes, that is exactly right. > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Also, is it morally acceptable to kill an Illuminati-manipulated assassin who is trying to kill oneself? An act of self defense, in other words. Yes, I suppose. In self-defense it would be considered acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/505 "2013-01-29T19:16:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Do you read what you are writing? We _are_ trying people in a Nuremberg-type court. Its at Guantanamo Bay. But we needed to have people in custody first in order to try them. It is not legal under US Federal law to try someone in absentia. And I’ll let you in on a little secret. The Taliban and a lot of others are not satisfied with a Nuremburg-type court. I’ll let you in on another little secret: The 9/11 attacks were a crime, not an act of war. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/506 "2013-01-29T19:28:05Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Had the missle crisis not been resolved, it would have been detrimental to other world leaders, particularly Castro and Khrushchev. This is a perfect example of a statement that appears to have substance but in fact is empty rhetoric. You can say this about any crisis, relating to any world leader, and with any possible outcome. It’s how conspiracy theorists stay in conversations - they have nothing but hot air and obfuscation. > [@](#): > > Have you never heard of order out of chaos? Have you never heard of answering a question with a simple, unambiguous sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/507 "2013-01-29T19:33:28Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Have you never heard of answering a question with a simple, unambiguous sentence? Yes, as long as the question is an unambiguous as the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/508 "2013-01-29T19:38:18Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I’ll let you in on another little secret: The 9/11 attacks were a crime, not an act of war. “You are a liar” I know that may be a violation of thread rules but I cannot and will not allow this blatant falsehood to stand. I have two close friends who were eyewitnesses to 9/11. One watched both planes hit from her apt. balcony in NJ. The other worked in the WTC complex and saw the second hit from the street on his way to work. I knew both of these people for more than a decade before 9/11 and know them both to this day. I am sure that there a many posters on this board who were/know eyewitnesses and they will say the same thing. It is not a mistaken notion you are promoting, it is a very dangerous lie. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/509 "2013-01-29T19:39:27Z")
Please proceed, **Capt**. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/510 "2013-01-29T19:41:30Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because I want to keep everything here. I’d rather expose them in this thread than in a movie. > > Yes, that is exactly right. > > Yes, I suppose. In self-defense it would be considered acceptable. Outside of an obvious “assassin in one’s house” sort of scenario, what about killing or neutralizing a manipulated agent who is doing something that will eventually lead to one’s death? For example: Over a period of months, a manipulated agent releases low doses of hallucinogens into the ventilation system of a person’s home in an attempt to cause some kind of psychotic episode. The goal is to eventually cause the unknowing victim “snap” and kill people, then kill himself, for whatever purpose the Illuminati have in mind. Is it morally acceptable for the victim to proactively strike at the agent? Probably an futile/inadvisable course of action, because of the power of the Illuminati, but is it morally OK? What if one were to actually find oneself in a position to kill or neutralize one of the Illuminati “manipulators”? As the ultimate architect of murders and other deplorable acts, albeit always by proxy, doesn’t he/she bear the moral culpability for the bad acts? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/511 "2013-01-29T19:54:37Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Please proceed, **Capt**. No **Kozmik** you need to tell me which whackadoodle theory about 9/11 you are promoting and if it hasn’t been debunked on this board, I will. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/512 "2013-01-29T20:42:58Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > No **Kozmik** you need to tell me which whackadoodle theory about 9/11 you are promoting and if it hasn’t been debunked on this board, I will. Don’t hold your breath. This is his third thread and he has never contributed anything of substance. It’s like trying to nail jello to the wall, except you are using a leaf spring from a 1968 VW Beetle for a nail, and there’s no wall. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/513 "2013-01-29T21:01:23Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Don’t hold your breath. This is his third thread and he has never contributed anything of substance. It’s like trying to nail jello to the wall, except you are using a leaf spring from a 1968 VW Beetle for a nail, and there’s no wall. Don’t we know it. I have participated in all three. I can only hope he actually posts a “Theory”, I want to tear him a new one. 9/11 Truthers piss me off. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/514 "2013-01-29T21:25:26Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Kerry and Bush got the message. :rolleyes: What? Why Bush and Kerry, of all the candidates? How do you know they got whatever message you believe was sent by this circuitous and tardy method? Like I said: in reality, a conspiracy would now allow a president to speak about this in public. The idea that they would have no way to stop this and would have no way to retaliate for 2 1/2 years is silly. So is the idea that all of the previous was planned. It goes without saying you have no evidence for any of this, but the real problem is the diseased reasoning you are using. > [@](#): > > Had the missle crisis not been resolved, it would have been detrimental to other world leaders, particularly Castro and Khrushchev. You haven’t explained how. > [@](#): > > How could I confirm that? You can find the names of presidential speechwriters through Google. It’s not hard. That’s what I did. > [@](#): > > But you seem to be saying that every president always will. They probably will. > [@](#): > > I don’t have a cite for that. Thank you. > [@](#): > > Are you saying that the claim that they didn’t share evidence is absurd? The claim that they did not have evidence is absurd. > [@](#): > > Who would they share it with? Their allies. This question is confusing: if you think there was one to share it with, why does it matter that they did not share it with anyone? Wait - if you think there’s no one to share it with, why does it matter if they didn’t share it? > [@](#): > > I’ll explain myself in full sentences. In 16 words to be exact. “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” You still didn’t explain. I am totally unsurprised. > [@](#): > > Have you never heard of order out of chaos? Nonresponsive again. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/515 "2013-01-29T22:00:32Z")
But brilliantly played, in an irresistable-wackdoodle-meets-irresistable-logic kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/516 "2013-01-30T00:38:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nonresponsive again. Are you so [sure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_marmoset)? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/517 "2013-01-30T00:42:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Are you so [sure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_marmoset)? [Yes.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nail-clippers-variety.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/518 "2013-01-30T02:02:12Z")
I see you’ve played this game before. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/519 "2013-01-30T03:17:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Are you so [sure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_marmoset)? Oh my gahhhh… in 1993 (exactly 30 years to the day after the Alleged Assassination), that was the name of my daughter’s stickball team!!!1!][!ll!|! _NOW_ it’s all starting to make sense… _finally, I might add._ ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/520 "2013-01-30T17:49:32Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > No **Kozmik** you need to tell me which whackadoodle theory about 9/11 you are promoting and if it hasn’t been debunked on this board, I will. > > **Capt** The “whackadoodle theory” is the theory (not necessarily a conspiracy theory) that the 9/11 attacks were “a crime, not an act of war”, which was explained by Manningham-Buller, former Director General of MI5 in the 2011 Reith Lecture. > [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > I want to tear him a new one. 9/11 Truthers piss me off. > > **Capt** You didn’t need to post that for me to already know that. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=27)