# Ask the conspiracy theorist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012 "2012-10-27T05:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/621 "2013-02-22T21:14:29Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > **Loach** answered this question: Yes I answered it. Of course you ignored the parentheticals. You somehow think your beliefs are some cosmic truth. I showed you I understand your ramblings quite well. Its not that deep. But your beliefs are silly. I felt silly just writing it. The fact that you don’t understand how silly your beliefs are is sad. The fact that you stated that I answered the question without indicating I believed none of it is nuts. [QUOTE=Kozmik] No. [/Quote] Why not? The Girls Scouts are an organization in which the members, structure and methods are all well documented and easily found. It fits your criteria for organizations which prove that the Illuminati can exist. But for some reason the Girl Scouts don’t count. It was your criteria, not mine. > [@](#): > > Why is it “madness”? Because like you have been doing for years, you leap from A to Z and miss all the steps in between. One point does not follow the other in any logical way. But you have your nose pushed into examples of your illogical and crazy thinking and you still somehow believe you are only going from A to B. Madness. Its how clinically insane people think and act. > [@](#): > > Do you mean, try for coherency instead? You aren’t very coherent, **Loach**. You set a different standard for me since you yourself gave a pithy comment, “some need to find order in chaos” and I turned that comment around - “some need to find chaos in order”. Do you understand the difference between a need to find order in chaos and a need to find chaos in order Human interaction is chaotic. Inventing hierarcy to explain all aspects of human interactions is trying to find order in chaos. The chaos is reality. Lizard People are a fiction created to explain away the chaos. That is what you are doing. Reversing the order of the words make no sense and is just an attempt at a clever turn of phrase which fell flat. My standard is logic. I set the same standard for you and me. You are failing in every post. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/622 "2013-02-22T23:52:38Z")
When I said that “you believe the Illuminati exists because if all heads of government got together, that would be a G-192 meeting,” you responded with this: > [@Kozmik](#): > > I believe that (1) the Illuminati exists and I believe that (2) if all heads of government got together that would be a G-192 meeting. **Two separate beliefs.** Then you wrote: > [@Kozmik](#): > > **Loach** answered this question: > > **drewtwo99** also wrote something similar, except she did not write, “Since there can’t be 192 people with equal power someone has to be in charge of that meeting”, a very important point. So on this page, you say that since someone has to be in charge of the G-192 meeting, that would be the Illuminati; but on the previous page, you told me that the G-192 and the Illuminati were two separate beliefs. I simply cannot understand why my statement is wrong and **Loach** and **drewtwo99** are more or less correct when I think we all said more or less the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/623 "2013-02-23T01:49:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I simply cannot understand why my statement is wrong and **Loach** and **drewtwo99** are more or less correct when I think we all said more or less the same thing. I’m a better Crazy to English translator than you. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/624 "2013-02-23T13:19:15Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The 192 world leaders _are_ obviously equal - equal by virtue of being at the same level, by virtue of being world leaders - despite the fact, as **Loach** points out, that they do not have “equal power”. And 3 = 5 by virtue of them both sharing the same status of being odd numbers. QED ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/625 "2013-02-24T04:16:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because I don’t think every world leader is “equal” in status, whatever “status” is among world leaders. Why would they be? Because every world leader is at the same level. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no evidence for the existence of the Illuminati- even if there is a logical possibility of their existence Thank you for conceding that point. > [@Loach](#): > > Why not? The Girls Scouts are an organization in which the members, structure and methods are all well documented and easily found. It fits your criteria for organizations which prove that the Illuminati can exist. But for some reason the Girl Scouts don’t count. It was your criteria, not mine. Because the Girl Souts - the Girl Scouts of the USA - is part of a larger organization, the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts. > [@Loach](#): > > I set the same standard for you and me. You do not set the standard and neither do I. > [@Ravenman](#): > > So on this page, you say that since someone has to be in charge of the G-192 meeting, that would be the Illuminati Who else would it be? > [@Ravenman](#): > > but on the previous page, you told me that the G-192 and the Illuminati were two separate beliefs. The G-192 and the Illuminati are two separate beliefs. I’m not going to leap from A to Z: > [@Loach](#): > > Because like you have been doing for years, you leap from A to Z and miss all the steps in between. One point does not follow the other in any logical way. But you have your nose pushed into examples of your illogical and crazy thinking and you still somehow believe you are only going from A to B. Madness. Its how clinically insane people think and act. **Ravenman** , someone could believe in the G-192 summit and not believe in the Illuminati. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/626 "2013-02-24T05:19:42Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Who else would it be? Is the Illuminati in charge of the G8 meeting? And I still don’t understand what there is to “believe” about this G-192. You’ve invested this hypothetical with some mystical and important quality that I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/627 "2013-02-24T18:24:43Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because every world leader is at the same level. > > Thank you for conceding that point. > > Because the Girl Souts - the Girl Scouts of the USA - is part of a larger organization, the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts. > > You do not set the standard and neither do I. > > Who else would it be? > > The G-192 and the Illuminati are two separate beliefs. I’m not going to leap from A to Z: > > **Ravenman** , someone could believe in the G-192 summit and not believe in the Illuminati. The stupidity of your answers has completely demoralized me. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/628 "2013-02-25T00:41:46Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The stupidity of your answers has completely demoralized me. Congratulations. Kozmik 328; the forces of rationality, zero. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/629 "2013-02-25T13:30:45Z")
What does it mean to believe in the G-192 summit? Does it involve merely believing that such an could happen, believing that it has, believing that it happens regularly, or something else? “Yes” is not a sensible response to this question. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/630 "2013-02-25T15:17:54Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Kozmik 328; the forces of rationality, zero. Crazy I can deal with. I hit my stupid threshold. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/631 "2013-02-25T16:37:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Is the Illuminati in charge of the G8 meeting? No, the Illuminati would only be in charge of the G-192 meeting, the meeting where _all_ heads of government are present. > [@Ace309](#): > > What does it mean to believe in the G-192 summit? Does it involve merely believing that such an could happen, believing that it has, believing that it happens regularly, or something else? It means the same as believing in the Illuminati. It involves believing that such could happen, the G-192 summit, the Illuminati. As **iiandyiiii** wrote concerning the Illuminati: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no evidence for the existence of the Illuminati- even if there is a logical possibility of their existence The same could be written concerning the G-192 summit: > [@](#): > > There’s no evidence for the existence of the G-192 summit- even if there is a logical possibility of their existence I believe the G-192 summit will happen. I believe the Illuminati do exist. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/632 "2013-02-25T17:43:09Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > No, the Illuminati would only be in charge of the G-192 meeting, the meeting where _all_ heads of government are present. I don’t get it. The G8 is a meeting of equals, and somebody has to preside over it, but you say the presiding officer is not an Illuminati. The G-192 would be a meeting of equals, but an Illuminati _would_ preside over it? That makes no sense to me. If the organizing principle is that someone of higher importance has to preside over meetings of equals, then why does the Illuminati only get called in at the G-192? What happens if it was a G-191 meeting (because nobody wanted to invite the Vatican or whatever), would the Illuminati preside over that? What about a G-183 meeting? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/633 "2013-02-25T17:46:15Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I believe the G-192 summit will happen. > > I believe the Illuminati do exist. So you readily admit believing things with no evidence for their existence. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/634 "2013-02-25T17:48:05Z")
Even if the G-192 summit happened, it would not need an outside entity to “preside” over it. It could have a rotating chairman, for example, or a secretary without authority who simply guides the meeting along. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/635 "2013-02-25T17:58:22Z")
You may have missed the earlier discussions of the G-192. Kozmik envisions this as not being at all similar to any other summit meeting – it must be secret, the only attendees are the heads of state themselves (no staff or support personnel), and as the only reason to hold the meeting is to allow the Illuminati Primus to speak to the assembled heads of state, clearly the only person who could call or chair the meeting is said Illuminatus. He has given us absolutely no insight into why he believes this particular fantasy to be significant. I may have mentioned that Kozmik’s grasp of international diplomacy and politics is demonstrably less than that displayed by Saturday-morning cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/636 "2013-02-25T19:14:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t get it. The G8 is a meeting of equals, and somebody has to preside over it, but you say the presiding officer is not an Illuminati. The G-192 would be a meeting of equals, but an Illuminati _would_ preside over it? That makes no sense to me. If the organizing principle is that someone of higher importance has to preside over meetings of equals, then why does the Illuminati only get called in at the G-192? Because the G-192 summit is a meeting of _all_ heads of government, a meeting of \*all \*equals. > [@Ravenman](#): > > What happens if it was a G-191 meeting (because nobody wanted to invite the Vatican or whatever), would the Illuminati preside over that? Yes, in the event of the G-191 summit, which could happen next month (because of the resignation of the Pope), the Illuminati would preside over that. Keep in mind, there could be a G-191 if and only if there is no Pope, as there will be no Pope at the end of the month. It has to be a meeting of _all_ equals and after this Thursday Benedict XVI will not be an equal. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you readily admit believing things with no evidence for their existence. Ok. There is no evidence, as far as I know, for the existence of the Illuminati; on the other hand, the G-192 summit, _prima facie_, would have evidence for its existence. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > He has given us absolutely no insight into why he believes this particular fantasy to be significant. This particular fantasy involves the resignation of the Pope, which signals the opening of the G-192 - oops - G-191 summit (cheers!) which will be held during the vacancy of the Vaticancy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/637 "2013-02-25T19:21:25Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because the G-192 summit is a meeting of _all_ heads of government, a meeting of \*all \*equals. > > Yes, in the event of the G-191 summit, which could happen next month (because of the resignation of the Pope), the Illuminati would preside over that. Keep in mind, there could be a G-191 if and only if there is no Pope, as there will be no Pope at the end of the month. It has to be a meeting of _all_ equals and after this Thursday Benedict XVI will not be an equal. I still don’t understand why a meeting of _all_ countries requires the Illuminati to preside, but the Illuminati would have no interest or requirement to preside over a meeting of _almost all_ countries. Please explain that to me. ETA: What happens if every world leader is invited, but one, two, or a dozen world leaders decide they will not attend? Is that still a G-192? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/638 "2013-02-25T19:33:38Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because the G-192 summit is a meeting of _all_ heads of government, a meeting of \*all \*equals. > > Yes, in the event of the G-191 summit, which could happen next month (because of the resignation of the Pope), the Illuminati would preside over that. Keep in mind, there could be a G-191 if and only if there is no Pope, as there will be no Pope at the end of the month. It has to be a meeting of _all_ equals and after this Thursday Benedict XVI will not be an equal. > > There is no evidence, as far as I know, for the existence of the Illuminati; on the other hand, the G-192 summit, _prima facie_, would have evidence for its existence. > > This particular fantasy involves the resignation of the Pope, which signals the opening of the G-192 - oops - G-191 summit (cheers!) which will be held during the vacancy of the Vaticancy. And this will accomplish what, exactly, for the Illuminati? What possible reason would they have to hold the meeting next month instead of 150 years ago, when there were fewer countries? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/639 "2013-02-25T21:41:35Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > And this will accomplish what, exactly, for the Illuminati? > > What possible reason would they have to hold the meeting next month instead of 150 years ago, when there were fewer countries? Becuase the Illuminati only get to drink when the number 192 (bottoms up!) is mentioned, so what would be the point of holding a G-everybody meeting when there were fewer than 192 (skoal!) countries? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/640 "2013-02-26T02:55:34Z")
```auto ``` > [@Ravenman](#): > > I still don’t understand why a meeting of _all_ countries requires the Illuminati to preside, but the Illuminati would have no interest or requirement to preside over a meeting of _almost all_ countries. Please explain that to me. > > ETA: What happens if every world leader is invited, but one, two, or a dozen world leaders decide they will not attend? Is that still a G-192? Excellent question. Let’s say that the G-192 summit were to be held from February 25 to March 11. On February 28, one of the attendees would have to recuse themself. Before February 28, it would be a meeting of all heads of government and after February 28 it would still be a meeting of all heads of government. There would be no such summit if some world leaders decided not to attend. There would be such a summit, however, in the extraordinary event that the Pope resigns. Understand that it’s not important that all countries are represented, it’s important that all heads of countries are represented. It’s not countries _per se_ that matter - it’s heads of countries. So it’s not a meeting of all countries; more to the point, it’s a meeting of _all_ heads of _all_ countries. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > And this will accomplish what, exactly, for the Illuminati? To demonstrate what or who the heads of countries collectively represent. hint: it’s not countries (which they represent individually) but something or someone else. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > What possible reason would they have to hold the meeting next month instead of 150 years ago, when there were fewer countries? Divide and conquer for one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=33)