# Ask the conspiracy theorist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012 "2012-10-27T05:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/61 "2012-10-29T08:29:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If the Bible contradicts wht you say, then you can’t very well be using it as the basis of your theories. I’d be interested to learn what position the Bible _can’t_ be used to both attack and defend. Even if we limit the definition of ‘Bible’ to ‘The KJV or more modern translations of only the books the KJV contains’, there’s still been so much [hermeneutics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics) done on this text by people of every social background, political slant, ethnic affiliation, and wealth level that for every ‘True Biblical Position’ there is an equal and opposite ‘True Biblical Position’. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/62 "2012-10-29T09:11:23Z")
OK, I have another question for whatever Conspiracy Theory believer wants to respond. How do you respond to this statement: If there was an organization powerful enough to do the things you theorize, they wouldn’t need to lie to us. They would just do it, and we would be grateful they let us live. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/63 "2012-10-29T12:44:33Z")
Same as Muffin: I’m not interested in trying to convince Kozmik that he’s wrong. I’m not even particularly interested in any of his specific theories. I’m much more interested in what it’s like to be a conspiracy theorist, how he sees the world differently, how he reaches some conclusions but not others, stuff like that. A combative Pit thread wouldn’t get me that. (Plus, I read the beginning of the linked one and couldn’t make heads or tails of it.) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/64 "2012-10-29T12:53:09Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Same as Muffin: I’m not interested in trying to convince Kozmik that he’s wrong. I’m not even particularly interested in any of his specific theories. I’m much more interested in what it’s like to be a conspiracy theorist, how he sees the world differently, how he reaches some conclusions but not others, stuff like that. There have been participants in all of his threads with the same mindset. All of these threads end up in the same place; with Kosmik responding to reasonable questions with nonsensical and increasingly evasive answers. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/65 "2012-10-29T13:03:56Z")
Gotcha. So far it’s interesting, though. If it gets nonsensical and evasive, I can just wander off. This is the joy of the internet 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/66 "2012-10-29T13:08:01Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > . . . responding to reasonable questions with nonsensical and increasingly evasive answers. A typical characteristic of a true believer/conspiracy theorist. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/67 "2012-10-29T13:14:57Z")
Nope. Not playing this time. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/68 "2012-10-29T13:32:50Z")
Honestly, the conclusion I took from the Pit thread is that Kozmik’s brain simply doesn’t work correctly. That’s not meant as an insult, but a genuine observation. Assuming, of course, that we’re not all simply being trolled, it seemed like K was making real attempts to explain his thinking to us. In his mind, he WAS giving explanations and the logical connections behind his conclusions. It’s just that what came out was, to the rest of us, nonsensical non sequiturs. I think his brain’s logic connection part is on the fritz. Just one man’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/69 "2012-10-29T14:29:12Z")
I agree with **Smeghead**. Our friend here seems to honestly believe he is explaining his views, and I also feel that he simply does not comprehend the objections. When things seem so self-evident, it is difficult to explain them or to even understand what constitutes an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/70 "2012-10-29T15:38:00Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I am a conspiracy theorist. So you seem to take pride in the fact that there’s not just one conspiracy, but that they’re everywhere. 9/11, JFK, Roswell, the list goes on. It’s conspiracies all the way down. Here’s my question: Isn’t that just exhausting? Mentally and physically exhausting? You’re seeing zebras everywhere. Don’t you just wish, once, there was a single simple Occam’s Razor type explanation for something that’s occurred? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/71 "2012-10-29T16:08:45Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > You’re seeing zebras everywhere. Don’t you just wish, once, there was a single simple Occam’s Razor type explanation for something that’s occurred? Ah, but you see, an all-encompassing conspiracy (Illuminati, whatever) IS the simplest explanation. It wraps everything up in a Theory of Everything. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/72 "2012-10-29T16:32:19Z")
Kozmik - what about **R** FK’s assassination? Do you think Sirhan Sirhan was a pawn? Do you think the CIA orchestrated it, or perhaps Richard Nixon’s campaign? Do you think there was a second gunman? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/73 "2012-10-29T17:07:37Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > I don’t understand what you mean by saying you’re allowed to post about these conspiracies because ‘It’s the SDMB’. Do you mean that the SDMB has connections that make it too powerful for anyone who’s part of the conspiracies to have you censored or banned? Or that you’re allowed because no one takes the SDMB seriously, so the people in power don’t feel threatened by your exposing them here?? I mean that the SDMB is a message board where _everything_ is discussed persuant to its mission. Were CTs, for whatever reason, not allowed then the SDMB wouldn’t be the SDMB. Also, the slippery slope fallacy. > [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Do you assume that any conspiracy theory you hear about is automatically worthy of investigation, or do you have a filtering process that means you can dismiss some outright and investigate others before you decide? If so, is it evidence-based (‘Well, there’s zero evidence for this person’s claim that Mitt Romney is actually made of doughnut holes, so I’m not going to put any thought into it’) or gut-based (‘It’s totally implausible that Mitt Romney would be made of doughnut holes, so I’m not going to put any thought into it’) I do not assume that any conspiracy theory is not worthy of discussion. For example, the moon landing hoax does not explain or account for other things or other conspiracy theories. > [@Ravenman](#): > > How many people in the US Government are witting of one or more of these conspiracies? Like, just a few, or hundreds, or many thousands? Do elected leaders learn the truth about these conspiracies? (Like, did Ted Kennedy likely know the truth about his brother’s assassination?) Besides the President, probably less than a hundred people are witting of these conspiracies. Not all elected leaders learn of the truth of these conspiracies. For example, George H.W. Bush, who was the Director of the CIA, probably knew; however, his son, George W. Bush probably did not know. Ted Kennedy likely did not know about the truth of his brother’s assasination and neither did anyone else in that family. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Finally, are elections in this country predetermined by someone? Some are. Some aren’t. The 2000 election was likely predetermined. > [@cmyk](#): > > Do you make an exception for the Apollo missions simply because you feel you have reason to believe the US had a much stronger motive for reaching the moon, other than beating the Russians there. That is, because of extraterrestrial evidence uncovered at Roswell. Yes. > [@cmyk](#): > > If so, do you believe we wouldn’t have made it to the moon if not for advanced technology gleaned from the Roswell incident?Or something else? The former. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Who’s in these secret organizations and how do they operate? Easy to outline, difficult to detail. Some person is head of the entertainment industry, Hollywood, another person is head of the financial industry, Wall Street. Another person is attached to the world’s religious centers, Rome, Jerusalem, Mecca. Another person is spread out among the world’s military/technological nodes. They operate by ensuring that the entertainment industry, the financial industry, world’s relgions, world’s militaries, ect. are all on the same message, that they are all working in concert, that things happen in “mysterious ways”. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let’s start with a small group of men sitting in a room somewhere making decisions about world events (we’ll call them the Illuminati). How do they cause these decisions to be carried out? This is where many posters did not get the point I was making. My point is: There is 192 heads of government. Full stop. This is where conspiracy theory begins. I do not believe that the heads of government is the ultimate analysis of the world. Because at a G-192 summit, the heads of government would all be at the same level. My further point is this: The G-192 summit points to the possibility that there could be an even higher level. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But did Kennedy know the Illuminati existed? [This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpmi7dBet0c) speech by Kennedy indicates that he did know. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did they show up at the White House after Kennedy was elected President to explain to him that he was supposed to follow their orders? Or did he already know that he needed their permission to be elected President? The former. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did Nixon know the Illuminati had decided he was going to lose when he was running for President in 1960? Yes, and the Illuminati were involved in Watergate. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did the Secret Service agents know Kennedy was going to be assassinated or were they trying to protect him? No. Only the Director of the Secret Service likely knew. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How about the FBI and the Dallas PD - were they told to fake evidence against Oswald? Yes. Earle Cabell was mayor of Dallas at the time and his brother Charles Cabell was Deputy Director of Central Intelligence. Also consider that Ruby shot Oswald at the Dallas PD. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Was every member of these agencies in on the conspiracy or were they just following orders from their supervisors? Didn’t some of them think these orders were suspicious? Not every member. Some likely thought some orders were suspicious and alerted their supervisors who told them otherwise. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Was the Dallas Police Department special or do the Illuminati control every police department in the country? The latter. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do they control the police and military in every other country as well? Yes. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How many people belong to the Illuminati? Very few. A little more than the number of heads of government. > [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > I have a question for any conspiracy theorists: Do you believe in God? Why or why not? I am agnostic. I am agnostic because the relgious are sometimes no better than the atheists and vice versa. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Do you think there may be a middle ground between conspiracy theories and denialism? Yes as long as one keeps an open mind and as long as one is prepared for uncomfortable paths where ever the questions lead. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As an example Jon Ronson studied conspiracy theories, going in as a denialist from what I can tell. But he came across a lot of evidence that Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg, etc actually exist and have a lot of powerful people. But instead of coming to the conclusion that these groups control the world, they are mostly rich/powerful people letting off steam, and they have far less influence than most people realize. He claims in talking to members that they like these conspiracy theories because they make the groups sound more elite and powerful than they actually are. > > That is the view I subscribe to. Do you think the same could be the same with the G-192 or Illuminati? They may exist, but they aren’t as serious or powerful as they can be made out to be? No, because Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg would be under the Illuminati. > [@Derleth](#): > > If there was an organization powerful enough to do the things you theorize, they wouldn’t need to lie to us. They would just do it, and we would be grateful they let us live. You state: “they wouldn’t need to lie to us” and “we would be grateful they let us live”. Who is “us”? People concurrently living now, or people who will be living in the next 100 years, or both? Lying to us takes on a whole knew meaning when “us” spans across time. > [@Enderw24](#): > > Isn’t that just exhausting? Mentally and physically exhausting? You’re seeing zebras everywhere. Don’t you just wish, once, there was a single simple Occam’s Razor type explanation for something that’s occurred? It’s not exausting because I just read _The New York Times_ for approximately one hour every day. That’s it. Then I work on average eight hours each day. Work is more exhausting. 🙂 I wish there was an Occam’s Razor for 9/11 but then it would not account for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. > [@bup](#): > > Kozmik - what about **R** FK’s assassination? Do you think Sirhan Sirhan was a pawn? Do you think the CIA orchestrated it, or perhaps Richard Nixon’s campaign? Do you think there was a second gunman? I think Sirhan Sirhan was a pawn and I find it interesting that he remembers nothing of what happened. Probably the CIA or Nixon. There might not have been a second gunman for RFK’s assasination but there likely were accomplices. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/74 "2012-10-29T18:13:16Z")
What method and criteria do you use to distinguish between a true conspiracy and a false conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/75 "2012-10-29T18:14:12Z")
I’m confused by your responses. You say the Illuminati are very few in number - only around a couple hundred members - but they control a huge number or organizations. How do they do that? It’s 1963. You’re a Secret Service agent. You’ve been assigned to the President’s detail when he flies to Dallas. You get a phone call from a person you’ve never met and he tells you he’s one of the secret rulers of the world and they’ve decided to kill Kennedy. Your orders are to step aside when the second gunman shoots and let him have a clear shot. Are you really going to do this because some mysterious stranger on the phone tells you he runs the world? Or if he shows up at your workplace? Or relays the order through your boss? If somebody tried this, they would just get arrested not have their orders obeyed. And this is the United States. Imagine what happened to the Illuminati agent who told Hitler or Stalin or Mao that he was running their country and they had to obey his orders. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/76 "2012-10-29T18:21:03Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > This is where many posters did not get the point I was making. My point is: There is 192 heads of government. Full stop. This is where conspiracy theory begins. I do not believe that the heads of government is the ultimate analysis of the world. Because at a G-192 summit, the heads of government would all be at the same level. My further point is this: The G-192 summit points to the possibility that there could be an even higher level. And here it is again. Try getting any sort of meaningful details to explain this paragraph. Go ahead, I’ll wait here. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/77 "2012-10-29T18:38:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > And here it is again. Try getting any sort of meaningful details to explain this paragraph. Go ahead, I’ll wait here. I’ll make the popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/78 "2012-10-29T19:05:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How many people belong to the Illuminati? Fnorty. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/79 "2012-10-29T19:08:40Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I wish there was an Occam’s Razor for 9/11 but then it would not account for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. What needs to be accounted for in regards to the 1993 WTC bombing? You’ve mentioned that a few times and I don’t know what it means. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/80 "2012-10-29T21:12:31Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I mean that the SDMB is a message board where _everything_ is discussed persuant to its mission. Were CTs, for whatever reason, not allowed then the SDMB wouldn’t be the SDMB. Also, the slippery slope fallacy. That explains why the SDMB allows you to post CTs, but that’s not what I was asking. My question is: why do the Illuminati and their forces allow you to post CTs here? If they’re hugely powerful, why don’t they just have you banned or censored? Or do they not care whether they’re exposed? (In which case, why bother with secrecy at all?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=5)