# Ask the conspiracy theorist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012 "2012-10-27T05:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/81 "2012-10-29T21:17:21Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > You state: “they wouldn’t need to lie to us” and “we would be grateful they let us live”. Who is “us”? People concurrently living now, or people who will be living in the next 100 years, or both? Lying to us takes on a whole knew meaning when “us” spans across time. Both. Either. It doesn’t matter, because if they can do what you claim, nobody would ever be able to stop them. I think you don’t quite get this: **If they are capable of pulling off things like 9/11 and never being suspected, never coming to light, they are infinitely powerful. They would no more fear us than we fear a single gnat.** Take a little while and imagine what would happen if they ever felt their power was threatened. What would they do? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/82 "2012-10-29T21:37:05Z")
Could extraterrestrials be behind a lot, if not all, of these conspiracies? You believe they have come, are probably still here, and have vastly superior technology if this were so. Do you believe the Illuminati is made up of some alien hegemony who pulls the strings on mankind… _Or else?_ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/83 "2012-10-29T22:31:50Z")
I phrased my previous question to **Kozmik** …poorly. I’ll try again. Are there _any_ conspiracy theories that strike you as so ludicrous and brain-dead that you conclude “These people are nuts…I’m not wasting my time with this crap.”? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/84 "2012-10-29T22:46:24Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Same as Muffin: I’m not interested in trying to convince Kozmik that he’s wrong. I’m not even particularly interested in any of his specific theories. I’m much more interested in what it’s like to be a conspiracy theorist, how he sees the world differently, how he reaches some conclusions but not others, stuff like that. A combative Pit thread wouldn’t get me that. (Plus, I read the beginning of the linked one and couldn’t make heads or tails of it.) I would suggest you do read it. It really wasn’t more combative than a GD thread. People were trying to engage the OP using logic. It didn’t work. Most if not all the questions were already asked of him. He answered to no ones satisfaction. If you wish to rehash go ahead. I don’t know if its how all CTers get that way but it did show insight into how Kosmik thinks. Which led many people to tell him to seek help. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/85 "2012-10-29T22:53:27Z")
**Kosmik** , have you seen the latest conspiracy fodder regarding the 43 trillion dollar bankster fraud, the CNBC exec who reported it on his channel and the death of 2 of his children less than 4 hours later? [http://www.thedailysheeple.com/the-43-trillion-bankster-lawsuit-and-the-mysterious-murder-of-two-ny-toddlers\_102012](http://www.thedailysheeple.com/the-43-trillion-bankster-lawsuit-and-the-mysterious-murder-of-two-ny-toddlers_102012) [![](https://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/CNBCvanishedarticleSpire.jpg) ](https://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/CNBCvanishedarticleSpire.jpg) Here’s the lawsuit for those who want to check if it’s trivial. [http://www.soldierhugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SPIRE-LAW-FEDERAL-COMPLAINT-IN-NEW-YORK.pdf](http://www.soldierhugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SPIRE-LAW-FEDERAL-COMPLAINT-IN-NEW-YORK.pdf) There’s a thread in Comments on Cecil’s Columns called [Is Brainwashing possible? Old column, new information](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15640964#post15640964) that could add weight one way or another to the idea of a nanny being primed to punish someone who’d stepped over the line, if they can come to a consensus on whether hypnotism can work that way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/86 "2012-10-30T15:52:02Z")
Does FEMA really [have concentration camps ready for use](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/FEMA_concentration_camps)? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/87 "2012-10-30T16:02:22Z")
What do you think of the conspiracy theory that Sandy the Squirrel caused the flooding just so that kids in Sponge Bob costumes would have something to sop up on Halloween? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/88 "2012-10-30T16:25:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > What method and criteria do you use to distinguish between a true conspiracy and a false conspiracy? The [coherence theory of truth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_theory_of_truth) is the method and criteria I use. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m confused by your responses. You say the Illuminati are very few in number - only around a couple hundred members - but they control a huge number or organizations. How do they do that? They do that by having public and semi-public organizations with hierarchy and a chain of command. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s 1963. You’re a Secret Service agent. You’ve been assigned to the President’s detail when he flies to Dallas. You get a phone call from a person you’ve never met and he tells you he’s one of the secret rulers of the world and they’ve decided to kill Kennedy. Your orders are to step aside when the second gunman shoots and let him have a clear shot. > > Are you really going to do this because some mysterious stranger on the phone tells you he runs the world? Or if he shows up at your workplace? Or relays the order through your boss? If somebody tried this, they would just get arrested not have their orders obeyed. The phone call from a person you’ve never met is the Director of the Secret Service and he gives you orders to stand-down. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you really going to do this because some mysterious stranger on the phone tells you he runs the world? Or if he shows up at your workplace? Or relays the order through your boss? In the “Mr X. scene” in JFK this scenario is described. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Imagine what happened to the Illuminati agent who told Hitler or Stalin or Mao that he was running their country and they had to obey his orders. Hitler, Stalin and Mao were running their respective countries. The Illuminati let Hitler Stalin and Mao run their respective countries. > [@August\_West](#): > > What needs to be accounted for in regards to the 1993 WTC bombing? You’ve mentioned that a few times and I don’t know what it means. I would completely disavow any and all 9/11 conspiracy theories if and only if it were to come out that (a) Al Qaeda crashed planes into the towers and (b) Al Qaeda planted bombs in the towers. See, it was (a) an intelligence failure and (b) a security failure. Understand that there were no conspiracy theories regarding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing (even after 2001). That Al Qaeda just flew planes into the towers. I don’t buy that. That Al Qaeda flew planes into the towers while detonating explosives. I can buy that. > [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > That explains why the SDMB allows you to post CTs, but that’s not what I was asking. My question is: why do the Illuminati and their forces allow you to post CTs here? If they’re hugely powerful, why don’t they just have you banned or censored? Or do they not care whether they’re exposed? (In which case, why bother with secrecy at all?) They don’t seem to care whether they’re exposed. I’m not the first to expose them. > [@Derleth](#): > > Both. Either. It doesn’t matter, because if they can do what you claim, nobody would ever be able to stop them. I think you don’t quite get this: **If they are capable of pulling off things like 9/11 and never being suspected, never coming to light, they are infinitely powerful. They would no more fear us than we fear a single gnat.** > > Take a little while and imagine what would happen if they ever felt their power was threatened. What would they do? They would not do anything. They would have an organization that they control do something. > [@cmyk](#): > > Could extraterrestrials be behind a lot, if not all, of these conspiracies? Perhaps. > [@cmyk](#): > > Do you believe the Illuminati is made up of some alien hegemony who pulls the strings on mankind… _Or else?_ It is a slight possibility that has not yet been ruled out. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Are there _any_ conspiracy theories that strike you as so ludicrous and brain-dead that you conclude “These people are nuts…I’m not wasting my time with this crap.”? Yes. Besides the moon landing hoax, the Holocaust hoax, Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy theories, and Titanic conspiracy theories. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > **Kosmik** , have you seen the latest conspiracy fodder regarding the 43 trillion dollar bankster fraud, the CNBC exec who reported it on his channel and the death of 2 of his children less than 4 hours later? No. And that is the whole other point I have been trying to make. I read the story on the front page of _The New York Times_. I raised my eyebrows and wondered whether there could be a conspiracy connected to this. I follow the news partly to see whether there is anything suspicious in the news. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Does FEMA really [have concentration camps ready for use](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/FEMA_concentration_camps)? No. FEMA camps, death panels, and birther conspiracies are nonsense. > [@Muffin](#): > > What do you think of the conspiracy theory that Sandy the Squirrel caused the flooding just so that kids in Sponge Bob costumes would have something to sop up on Halloween? I think that the conspiracy theory that Sandy the Squrrel caused the flooding just so that kids in SpongeBob costumes would have something to sop up on Halloween is nonsense too. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/89 "2012-10-30T16:28:59Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > They do that by having public and semi-public organizations with hierarchy and a chain of command. And so we go, down the rabbit hole… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/90 "2012-10-30T16:57:12Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The [coherence theory of truth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_theory_of_truth) is the method and criteria I use. > > [. . .] Do you realize that Coherence Theory is a philosophical concept intended to determine whether a given group of statements is internally consistent, and is not intended to be used as a predictive method or for establishing objective facts? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/91 "2012-10-30T17:08:03Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Do you realize that Coherence Theory is a philosophical concept intended to determine whether a given group of statements is internally consistent, and is not intended to be used as a predictive method or for establishing objective facts? For example, the Sandy Squirrel – Sponge Bob conspiracy is internally consistent as per the coherence theory, so why is it, **Kozmik** , that you reject this particulary conspiracy theory? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/92 "2012-10-30T17:10:14Z")
You’re doing the same thing in this thread that you did in the other threads, **Kozmik** , answering questions with non sequitors, cryptic one liners, and irrelevant links. Can you post a substantive detailed multi paragraph account of your world views or can’t you? Can you provide evidence that would lead a neutral impartial observer to agree with you or not? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/93 "2012-10-30T17:17:48Z")
If people were as bad at keeping secrets as some itt seem to think they are, wouldn’t it be impossible to run black budget operations? How is the silence of these people maintained, and if there is a select group of people who have access to all these programs to ensure nothing untoward is happening, how are we to know these people aren’t controlled? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/94 "2012-10-30T17:31:34Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If people were as bad at keeping secrets as some itt seem to think they are, wouldn’t it be impossible to run black budget operations? How is the silence of these people maintained, and if there is a select group of people who have access to all these programs to ensure nothing untoward is happening, how are we to know these people aren’t controlled? “Black Budget” operations are usually short-term, small scale, and have a definite goal. Only a few persons need to know about the development of a given new aircraft or weapons system, whereas the number of willing co-conspirators in any Illuminati-scale operation geometrically approaches the entire population of the US. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/95 "2012-10-30T17:35:29Z")
Sorry, I believe I meant “asymptotically” and not “geometrically.” That is the type of slip CTers look for in official pronouncements to fuel their suspicions. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/96 "2012-10-30T18:07:05Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > They do that by having public and semi-public organizations with hierarchy and a chain of command. > > The phone call from a person you’ve never met is the Director of the Secret Service and he gives you orders to stand-down. Which Director of the Secret Service? Mark Sullivan is the current director. He succeeded Ralph Basham in 2006. Before Basham, you had Brian Stafford. Before Stafford, it was Lewis Merletti. And before Merletti is was Eljay Bowron. Before Bowron, it was John Magaw. Before Magaw, it was John Simpson. Now this list only goes back twenty years, but we’ve got seven living people who are Illuminati members. Out of the Illuminati’s 192 members, they just used seven of them to control one organization in a single country. Now let’s look at the FBI - they’ve got to be in on this too. There are nine living people who’ve been Director of the FBI: William Ruckelshaus, James Adams, William Webster, John Otto, William Sessions, Floyd Clarke, Louis Freeh, Thomas Pickard, and Robert Mueller. CIA: We’ve got eight living Directors: Porter Goss, George Tenet, John Deutch, James Woolsey, Robert Gates, William Webster (but he’s already on the list), Stansfield Turner, George Bush, James Schlesinger. So twenty-four known members of the Illuminati here. We’ve already identified over a tenth of their membership and we’ve only done three groups. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/97 "2012-10-30T18:50:51Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > “Black Budget” operations are usually short-term, small scale, and have a definite goal. Only a few persons need to know about the development of a given new aircraft or weapons system, whereas the number of willing co-conspirators in any Illuminati-scale operation geometrically approaches the entire population of the US. So, compartmentalisation doesn’t work then and all secret endeavours are doomed to failure because humans are such chatty creatures? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/98 "2012-10-30T18:55:40Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > So, compartmentalisation doesn’t work then and all secret endeavours are doomed to failure because humans are such chatty creatures? If you’re talking about vast, over-arching, permanent conspiracies to control world events? If so, yes, those would be doomed to failure. If you’re talking about targeted, limited-scope, and short-term conspiracies with a specific articulated goal? If so, no, those can be handled by compartmentalization. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/99 "2012-10-30T18:58:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Out of the Illuminati’s 192 members, they just used seven of them to control one organization in a single country. You have to read the other threads to understand the G-192 (drink!) members. They are the heads of state of the current countries on the planet. Are they members of the Illuminati? Don’t know, \*\*Kosmik \*\*has been unable to explain himself clearly enough. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/100 "2012-10-30T19:00:37Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > So, compartmentalisation doesn’t work then and all secret endeavours are doomed to failure because humans are such chatty creatures? Are you asking about keeping Project Sleipnir under wraps during the Cold War, or about a world-spanning conspiracy that controls all governments secretly? Because those are quantitatively different scenarios. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=6)