# Ask the conspiracy theorist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012 "2012-10-27T05:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/101 "2012-10-30T19:04:12Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > They do that by having public and semi-public organizations with hierarchy and a chain of command. **Kozmik** : Can I just pick up this one point? So we have “real” Illuminati - the inner core as it were - who know what they are doing and the real purpose of their plans and these are numbered in the low hundreds. Is each of these “public and semi-public organizations” run directly by one of these members of the inner circle? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/102 "2012-10-30T19:22:56Z")
How does one become an illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/103 "2012-10-30T19:23:55Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > If you’re talking about vast, over-arching, permanent conspiracies to control world events? If so, yes, those would be doomed to failure. > > If you’re talking about targeted, limited-scope, and short-term conspiracies with a specific articulated goal? If so, no, those can be handled by compartmentalization. And for the most part the truth does come out about those things. It just takes time. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/104 "2012-10-30T19:30:34Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You have to read the other threads to understand the G-192 (drink!) members. They are the heads of state of the current countries on the planet. Are they members of the Illuminati? Don’t know, \*\*Kosmik \*\*has been unable to explain himself clearly enough. I’m puzzled by the fact that the G-192 is comprised of heads of government who almost certainly don’t know about any conspiracies he’s listed (see post 73), but if these 192 world leaders got together, that event would be proof that there is a massive worldwide conspiracy… _that they don’t know about!_ ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/105 "2012-10-30T20:09:33Z")
So, Kozmik, what was your reaction to my analysis in post 68, and Dr. Fidelius’s agreement in post 69? When you read those posts, what was your first gut reaction? Do you think we’re just being jerks? Do you think we have valid points? Was it just meaningless random noise to you? What? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/106 "2012-10-31T01:18:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > How does one become an illuminati? An illuminati is an illuminatus with a split personality. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/107 "2012-10-31T01:32:38Z")
Another question, for any CTer who wants to answer: What, if anything, do you think the Illuminati does _not_ have the power to do? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/108 "2012-10-31T01:53:22Z")
What’s so hard to understand? Kosmik has made it very clear. He’s the bottom rung of a very large corporation. He has a boss, his boss has a boss, and a boss above him, so on up to the CEO. Of course the CEO has government officials above him, who have officials above them, and so forth and so forth. So why should this ever end? It doesn’t make sense. Obviously, if all the world leaders of the 192 countries got together, it would be proof that they weren’t the top. There has to be someone above them, there just has to be. Because that’s the way the world works. There’s always someone above you. And that’s what the Illuminati are. Now, what the Illuminati don’t realize is that they themselves have been carefully selected and manipulated by their alien governments from distant stars… and so on… and so on… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/109 "2012-10-31T02:04:36Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > What’s so hard to understand? Kosmik has made it very clear. He’s the bottom rung of a very large corporation. He has a boss, his boss has a boss, and a boss above him, so on up to the CEO. Of course the CEO has government officials above him, who have officials above them, and so forth and so forth. So why should this ever end? It doesn’t make sense. Obviously, if all the world leaders of the 192 countries got together, it would be proof that they weren’t the top. There has to be someone above them, there just has to be. Because that’s the way the world works. There’s always someone above you. And that’s what the Illuminati are. The breakdown occurs with the secrecy. When I was a lowly worker bee, I knew who my boss was and I knew who his boss was. I could, if I wanted to, trace my way up the chain of command until I theoretically reached the President of the United States. Every link in the chain was a known figure that people recognized as holding that position. So why would this system suddenly change at the very top? Why would the members of the Illuminati be invisible? They supposedly run the world after all - they have nothing they need to hide from. The people who give orders to the heads of state should be just as well known as the heads of state. And that recognition is a major source of people’s authority. People obey a leader because they know he’s the leader. An unknown leader has no authority. Let’s say you’re a sentry at some military base. Two cars race up and two men get out. One’s Barack Obama and one’s a guy you’ve never heard of who tells you he’s Barack Obama’s boss. They both give you conflicting orders. Which one do you think you obey? Being the most powerful man in the world doesn’t mean anything if nobody knows you’re the most powerful man in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/110 "2012-10-31T02:45:30Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Do you realize that Coherence Theory is a philosophical concept intended to determine whether a given group of statements is internally consistent, and is not intended to be used as a predictive method or for establishing objective facts? Yes. > [@Muffin](#): > > For example, the Sandy Squirrel – Sponge Bob conspiracy is internally consistent as per the coherence theory, so why is it, Kozmik, that you reject this particulary conspiracy theory? Because Sandy the Squirrel is not a conspiracy. It may be an inside joke but it’s not a conspiracy. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Can you post a substantive detailed multi paragraph account of your world views or can’t you? Can you provide evidence that would lead a neutral impartial observer to agree with you or not? To the first question, I can’t; however, drewtwo99 can. He did it in post #108. To the second question, the only evidence I have I can post in this thread and everyone here is a neutral impartial observer, including you. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If people were as bad at keeping secrets as some itt seem to think they are, wouldn’t it be impossible to run black budget operations? No, because it would be a black budget that this theocretically unlimited. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > How is the silence of these people maintained, Plausable deniability. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > and if there is a select group of people who have access to all these programs to ensure nothing untoward is happening, how are we to know these people aren’t controlled? Because at the highest level, unlike at the lower levels, they have the ability to anticipate and even intentionally cause blowback. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/111 "2012-10-31T03:03:58Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Do you realize that Coherence Theory is a philosophical concept intended to determine whether a given group of statements is internally consistent, and is not intended to be used as a predictive method or for establishing objective facts? Yes. > [@Muffin](#): > > For example, the Sandy Squirrel – Sponge Bob conspiracy is internally consistent as per the coherence theory, so why is it, Kozmik, that you reject this particulary conspiracy theory? Because Sandy the Squirrel is not a conspiracy. It may be an inside joke but it’s not a conspiracy. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Can you post a substantive detailed multi paragraph account of your world views or can’t you? Can you provide evidence that would lead a neutral impartial observer to agree with you or not? To the first question, I can’t; however, drewtwo99 can. He did it in post #108. To the second question, the only evidence I have I can post in this thread and everyone here is a neutral impartial observer, including you. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If people were as bad at keeping secrets as some itt seem to think they are, wouldn’t it be impossible to run black budget operations? No, because it would be a black budget that this theocretically unlimited. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > How is the silence of these people maintained, Plausable deniability. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > and if there is a select group of people who have access to all these programs to ensure nothing untoward is happening, how are we to know these people aren’t controlled? Because at the highest level, unlike at the lower levels, they have the ability to anticipate and even intentionally cause blowback. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Which Director of the Secret Service? Whichever Director of the Secret Service it is at the time. I never said that the Director of the Secret Service was necessarily in the Illuminati > [@MarcusF](#): > > **Kozmik** : Can I just pick up this one point? So we have “real” Illuminati - the inner core as it were - who know what they are doing and the real purpose of their plans and these are numbered in the low hundreds. Is each of these “public and semi-public organizations” run directly by one of these members of the inner circle? Yes. Take the Secret Service for example. There are over 4,000 Secret Service agents. There is 1 Director of the Secret Service. Then the Secret Service itself is under the Department of Homeland Security. The Department of Homeland Security, in turn, headed by the Secretary of Homeland Security. And the Secretary of Homeland Security is a member of the President’s cabinet. > [@Muffin](#): > > How does one become an illuminati? Not to be glib, but probably much more difficult than saying this oath: “I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” > [@Smeghead](#): > > So, Kozmik, what was your reaction to my analysis in post 68, and Dr. Fidelius’s agreement in post 69? When you read those posts, what was your first gut reaction? Do you think we’re just being jerks? Do you think we have valid points? Was it just meaningless random noise to you? What? It was irrelevant to anything in thread; however, it might be relevant to other things in other threads. > [@Derleth](#): > > What, if anything, do you think the Illuminati does _not_ have the power to do? Their only limit is the very source of their power - anonomity. They do not have the power to do things out in the open. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > What’s so hard to understand? Kosmik has made it very clear. He’s the bottom rung of a very large corporation. He has a boss, his boss has a boss, and a boss above him, so on up to the CEO. Of course the CEO has government officials above him, who have officials above them, and so forth and so forth. So why should this ever end? It doesn’t make sense. Obviously, if all the world leaders of the 192 countries got together, it would be proof that they weren’t the top. There has to be someone above them, there just has to be. Because that’s the way the world works. There’s always someone above you. And that’s what the Illuminati are. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/112 "2012-10-31T03:04:59Z")
\*\*drewtwo99 \*\*got it! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/113 "2012-10-31T04:37:47Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > \*\*drewtwo99 \*\*got it! The fact that you somehow blank out the second part of his post shows the very severe reality disconnect in your brain. Hint: he doesn’t agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/114 "2012-10-31T05:09:32Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > \*\*drewtwo99 \*\*got it! Oh for heaven’s sake… ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/115 "2012-10-31T06:05:17Z")
I think it’s safe to say **Kozmik’s** all but admitted the Illuminati is really an extraterrestrial entity that has decided, for reasons baffling, irrational and unknown to anyone, to control the politics, economy and all other earthly international and global operations/interactions to their own end by compartmentalizing myriad layers of myriad governments, leaders, organizations, security, military, institutions, corporations, etc. From the very bottom rung to the most powerful people we can point to until we reach our reptilian-turtle-looking alien overlords—who themselves might receive orders from _their_ home world, and perhaps yet some other reptilian race pulling the strings on _them,_ and so on… …it’s turtles all the way up… ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/116 "2012-10-31T06:09:54Z")
Just wanted to add, that’s a shitload of paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/117 "2012-10-31T06:16:11Z")
Back to the Apollo missions. What do you believe is the strongest motive for sending those men to the moon. Also, do you believe it stopped with Apollo 17, and continued on in secret? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/118 "2012-10-31T10:04:39Z")
And again, we fully understand what \*\*Kozmik \*\*is trying to say, we just do not agree that it is an accurate model of the real world. I might state that a little more strongly - a person who only reads the New York Times and who has a limited education (and, apparently, no experience with politicians or government) has constructed an arm-chair paranoid theory with no relation to reality. We are mocking it, as the only proponent is mentally incapable of offering any defense other than non-sequitors and vague hints. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/119 "2012-10-31T11:28:12Z")
Do you believe any paranomal activities are real, and if so, which ones? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012/120 "2012-10-31T12:52:15Z")
[For those who insist secrets can’t be kept.](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.11/patton_pr.html) > [@](#): > > the details of the black budget are revealed to only a few select Congressional committee members - and sometimes not even to them. There’s a system open to abuse, if ever I saw one. > [@](#): > > Some of these investigators are merely curious. Some are ideologically opposed to black budgeting, arguing that it is wasteful and futile, that revealing the cost of a stealth fighter tells no more about how to build one than the cost of a Cadillac does. Black budgeting, its opponents argue, is more about hiding from Congress and the public than from any foreign enemies. Many black programs, such as the B-2 stealth bomber and the Milstar satellite system, ended up costing far more than anticipated. Others failed to work as advertised. The Bush administration, for example, killed the Navy’s A-12 stealth carrier aircraft before it was unveiled to the public. Aren’t there better things we could be doing with our money? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-conspiracy-theorist/639012.md?page=7)