### Author:  [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/161 "2002-12-09T06:36:29Z")
PS - forgive the nature of my questions as far as bringing up the negative aspects of law enforcement goes - the things I’m curious about just happen to fall into the category of what a guy should do when “good people go bad” 🙂
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### Author:  [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/162 "2002-12-09T14:16:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jwhee \*
> i’ve always wondered about this:
> specifically, can i be arrested for driving in the nude? amazingly, i have been pulled while driving in the nude and arrested on unrelated charges (unpaid traffic ticket -\> suspended license). the cop just told me to put my clothes on. was he just being nice, or was i legal? for the record, it was 2 in the morning, not broad daylight.
>
> and if it is illegal, what about women going topless? men can do it…
:eek:
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/163 "2002-12-09T15:33:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Killuminati \*
> **Hey Badge a blunt wrap is just a cigar paper that is sold around here frequently used to roll marijuana or “tobaco” in.**
I thought it might be something like that, but I wasn’t sure. I don’t believe they are sold here (at least I’ve never seen one). If it is legal to purchase, then of course I wouldn’t bother someone who bought one. If it were a juvenile buying a tobacco product, I would be more likely to cite the clerk that sold it rather than the kid who made the purchase.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> And I wanted to say that I think its really cool of you to answer everyone’s questions. \*\*
I’m glad everyone is enjoying this as much as I am.
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/164 "2002-12-09T15:40:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by GusNSpot \*
> **Badge, have you ever had to “wet sheet” an off their meds person while at a domestic dispute?**
I’m not familiar with the term “wet sheet”, but I’m assuming that means restraining someone? I’ve had that many, many times. One of the toughest fights I’ve ever been in was a suicidal woman who had taken an overdose, and she _was not_ going to be taken to the hospital willingly.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> Or how do you handle a person who is harming themselves and the others around them when you are unlucky enough to be at a domestic call solo? Or do they refuse domestic calls unless two offices can go?\*\*
We always send two officers to domestic calls if at all possible, but I’ve handled them alone. I’m very good at talking people down no matter how upset they are, and that usually works. If not, we have a variety of options, including a “less lethal” gun that fires batons to disable the person.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> If they are “out there” and flopping around and harming themselves even though you have them cuffed, what do you or are you supposed to do? \*\*
I’ve been known to just sit on someone until they calm down. We have hobble restrains to secure their legs, and I’ve ridden to the jail (nearly an hour drive from my city) in the back seat with them, holding their hair and keeping their face pressed into a corner of the screen (to keep them from beating their head on the screen, window, me, etc.).
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/165 "2002-12-09T16:05:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jwhee \*
> \*\*how far do you have to go to be arrested for public indecency?
>
> specifically, can i be arrested for driving in the nude? amazingly, i have been pulled while driving in the nude and arrested on unrelated charges\*\*
You sound like a fun guy, jwhee! Just out for a nude drive for the fun of it? 🙂
In Washington, you can definitely be arrested for driving while nude (but only if someone can see your genitals in the case of a male). The law here is Indecent Exposure. This was changed from Public Indecency many years ago because someone discovered the loophole that as long as they weren’t _in public_, they could be nude and not get busted.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> and if it is illegal, what about women going topless? men can do it… \*\*
In Washington, you can’t make an “open and obscene exposure of his or her person . . . knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm”. [http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=9A.88.010](http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=9A.88.010)
That would make it illegal for a woman to be topless, since many people would be upset by this (though I can’t imagine why!).
I have always considered it unfair that men can be topless, but women cannot. But until someone challenges this through the courts and wins, it will not be allowed (do you know how difficult it is for me to tell a woman that she has to cover her breasts? 😉 ).
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/166 "2002-12-09T16:19:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mmmiiikkkeee \*
> \*\*My question is: _are police officers literally “untouchable” - in a physical sense, no matter what?_
>
> If another civilian is assaulting you, you can physically stop them, even rough them up a little to eliminate the threat; can you do the same if a cop is beating on you
> \
> Is a civilian automatically destined to spend time behind bars if they hit a cop and manage to take away his stick just to make the ass-whooping stop, \*\*
This is a very tough question to answer. The courts have ruled that a person cannot resist even an unlawful arrest, _so long as the only thing they are facing is a loss of freedom_. This indicates to me that if you are being illegally assaulted by an officer, you could legally defend yourself and have a defense to any charge of assault or resisting arrest.
Practically, however, this would be tough to win in court. You would have to prove that the assault was illegal. If you assault the officer to stop it, he will be able to use that to show that you were assaultive and _had to be_ physically subdued in the first place.
Also, remember that officer will probably have back-up coming. Even if he was illegally assaulting you to begin with, when his back-up arrives and you’re holding his baton, it’s just going to get worse. They won’t know what he did to start it, only that you’ve assaulted one of us.
Unfortunately, in the real world the better route may be to sue after the fact.
I certainly hope that you and everyone else reading this knows that I don’t condone such things, and I don’t believe anyone should have to take a single blow that isn’t justified and legal. But it isn’t so simple as to just say you should fight back and all will be well.
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/167 "2002-12-09T16:21:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mmmiiikkkeee \*
> \*\*PS - forgive the nature of my questions as far as bringing up the negative aspects of law enforcement goes - the things I’m curious about just happen to fall into the category of what a guy should do when “good people go bad” 🙂 \*\*
You have nothing to apologize for, mmmiiikkkeee. These are good, valid questions that need to be asked.
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### Author:  [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/168 "2002-12-09T17:02:01Z")
Hi. I have some questions.
1. What is the difference between mutual combat and self-defense?
2. Do you have to try to run away for it to be self-defense?
3. How do you figure out whom to take in for assault when there are two people fighting, no reliable witnesses and one or both claiming self-defense?
4. How often do you think officers plant evidence and how easy would it be for them to get away with it?
5. Why do so many police officers have mustaches? Is there a secret club or something? (:
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### Author:  [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/169 "2002-12-09T17:56:17Z")
Badge, I’ve got one on the last page that seems to have gotten passed over, and it’s not one of the ‘is this a crime?’ ones:
How do you make an arrest that’s not right at the scene of the crime? That is, you’re investigating, you find enough evidence to arrest me, so you have to go and bring me in. Do you do that as immediately as possible, or wait until a time when you’re pretty sure you know where I am? Do you just walk into my workplace and arrest me there, or would you ask me to come outside first, etc.? I know this is obviously going to vary a lot, but I’ve seen a lot of those on L&O and wondered how realistic that is.
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### Author:  [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/170 "2002-12-09T18:02:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Badge \*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \*
> > \*\*OK, Badge, I’ve got another one (well, several related). How do you make an arrest that’s not right at the scene of the crime? \*\*
>
> \*\*As you realize, it varies a lot depending on the crime, how much time I have, available manpower, etc. I have arrested people at work and at school. It is often preferable to arrest people away from their homes, where they are more likely to have weapons and assistance available, and psychologically people are more likely to fight when they are in their own home.
> \*\*
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/171 "2002-12-09T18:32:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Satasha \*
> \*\*
>
> 1. What is the difference between mutual combat and self-defense?\*\*
Intent, usually. Did the two subjects agree to go outside and fight, or did one start the fight unexpectedly.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> 1. Do you have to try to run away for it to be self-defense?
> \*\*
I know this varies widely from state to state. I don’t believe Washington case law requires a “duty to retreat”, but I know that some states do.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> 1. How do you figure out whom to take in for assault when there are two people fighting, no reliable witnesses and one or both claiming self-defense?\*\*
I would usually cite them both for mutual combat. Let the court figure it out.
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> 1. How often do you think officers plant evidence and how easy would it be for them to get away with it?\*\*
I think that it’s pretty rare (I know I’ve never seen or heard of it actually being done anywhere around here). Depending on the circumstances, it is probably pretty easy. Plant a small baggie of pot in someone’s car, easy. Plant bloody gloves behind a guest house, not very likely. 😉
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> 1. Why do so many police officers have mustaches? Is there a secret club or something? (: \*\*
I really don’t know. It’s just the human drive to fit in, I guess (and I’m guilty of that as well).
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/172 "2002-12-09T18:52:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \*
> \*\*Badge, I’ve got one on the last page that seems to have gotten passed over, and it’s not one of the ‘is this a crime?’ ones:
> \*\*
No, I got you, Riboflavin. Here’s my reply from the last page:
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2681498#post2681498](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2681498#post2681498)
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### Author:  [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/173 "2002-12-09T22:03:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by The Big Cheese \*
> \*\*There’s a lyric in a song by Lenny Kravitz(Mr Cab Driver Man).
> My Sweetie thinks it refers to a police code or something like that. We don’t know the codes, and there are other songs that use this method, so my question, **Badge** , is, does it??
>
> LYRIC:
>
> _Mr Cab Driver thinks we’re all one sixty five’ers_
> What’s a 165? \*\*
I believe this refers to section 165 of the New York State Penal Code, which deals with “Other Offenses Relating to Theft”. Specifically, 165.15 deals with “Theft of Services”:
> [@](#):
>
> 1. With intent to obtain railroad, subway, bus, air, taxi or any other public transportation service without payment of the lawful charge therefor, or to avoid payment of the lawful charge for such transportation service which has been rendered to him, he obtains or attempts to obtain such service or avoids or attempts to avoid payment therefor by force, intimidation, stealth, deception or mechanical tampering, or by unjustifiable failure or refusal to pay;
Lenny Kravitz’s song is about not being picked up by a cab, and I think he’s saying that he’s not going to rip off the cab driver just because of his (Lenny’s) skin:
> [@](#):
>
> Mr. Cab Driver won’t you stop to let me in
> Mr. Cab Driver don’t you like my kind of skin…
>
> Mr. Cab Driver don’t like to way I look
> He don’t like dreads he thinks we’re all crooks…
>
> Mr. Cab Driver thinks we’re all 165’ers
> Mr. Cab Driver fuck you I’m a survivor
>
> Let me in
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### Author:  [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/174 "2002-12-09T22:04:38Z")
Great thread, by the way.
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/175 "2002-12-09T22:28:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by JeffB \*
> \*\*I believe this refers to section 165 of the New York State Penal Code, which deals with “Other Offenses Relating to Theft”. Specifically, 165.15 deals with “Theft of Services”:
> \*\*
Thanks, Jeff! I was really wondering what that meant.
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### Author:  [@jujuju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jujuju)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/176 "2002-12-09T23:32:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Badge \*
> **You sound like a fun guy, jwhee! Just out for a nude drive for the fun of it? 🙂**
for the record, i’m a girl 🆒
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> In Washington, you can definitely be arrested for driving while nude (but only if someone can see your genitals in the case of a male). The law here is Indecent Exposure. This was changed from Public Indecency many years ago because someone discovered the loophole that as long as they weren’t _in public_, they could be nude and not get busted.\*\*
aw, phooey. guess i’m not the first to think of that one…
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> In Washington, you can’t make an “open and obscene exposure of his or her person . . . knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm”. [http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=9A.88.010](http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=9A.88.010)
> That would make it illegal for a woman to be topless, since many people would be upset by this (though I can’t imagine why!). \*\*
i haven’t had any complaints so far 😛
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### Author:  [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2002, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/177 "2002-12-10T07:59:19Z")
Allow me to be the first, **jwhee**.
How _ **you** _ doin’?
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### Author:  [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/178 "2002-12-10T16:42:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jwhee \*
> \*\*for the record, i’m a girl 🆒 \*\*
See what a sexist I am! Someone says they like to drive around nude, and I assume they are a guy.
And why can’t **I** get any car stops like that? I’ve stopped a few guys getting BJs while driving, but I’ve never stopped a car with a nude woman behind the wheel.
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### Author:  [@\_etalhea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_etalhea)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/179 "2002-12-31T22:52:24Z")
I’d just like to second the request to hear any funny stories you might have. With that many years on the force, you must have seen some pretty weird stuff.
Excellent thread!
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### Author:  [@Tradnor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tradnor)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-cop/139973/180 "2003-01-01T11:40:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Badge \*
> **I’ve stopped a few guys getting BJs while driving**
Just out of curiousity, what is the law against this (in your state)? I don’t think it would be indecent exposure since the genitals would be, **ahem** … “covered”.
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