# Ask the Copy Editor! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784 "2002-08-27T15:54:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/61 "2002-08-29T16:17:01Z")
You know, that would be cool! Usually, we just arm wrestle for the right to dictate style; draws are settled by whoever can walk around the ledge on the outside of the building without falling more than once. Sometimes we duel with X-Acto knives. Once I was gored by a malignant compass. Ouch! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/62 "2002-08-29T17:04:15Z")
**dantheman** , if you have time, do give me some pointers on reported speech. I have to churn out dozens of press releases, and I always have to edit it from my boss’s repetitive style: > [@](#): > > Mr XXXX, CEO of XXXX, Inc. said: “We are delighted to be heralding this fantastic product, that will lead us all to a brave new world.” > > Mr. YYYY, CTO of YYYY Corp, said: “This is the best product in the entire universe. I adore it more than life itself.” I normally do stuff like > [@](#): > > According to Mr XXXX, CEO of XXXX, Inc., this “fantastic product” will “lead us all to a brave new world”. > > “This is the best product in the entire universe,” agreed YYYY Corp’s CTO, Mr. YYYY. “I adore it more than life itself,” he continued. I think my way’s a bit more interesting, but I’m really getting to the end of my options, given the starting point. And I’m not allowed to change the quotes, obviously. My goal is to make it as generic-journalism-like as possible, since a release that’s less in need of subbing is more likely to be printed. Any hints? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/63 "2002-08-29T17:19:04Z")
In press releases, which naturally must be brief and concise, it’s important to highlight the primary focus. Press releases shouldn’t be repetitive, if it can be helped, but it sounds like your boss wants to emphasize the speaker of the quotes, rather than the words themselves. In journalism class, we were told to frame our sentences in the active voice: “I don’t know what this world is coming to,” John said. rather than “I don’t know what this world is coming to,” said John. So first hint: I would keep it active. Words leap of the page much better this way than if the voice is passive. Now, if your boss does want to emphasize the person’s name, then let him/her - but you can alter the verb itself: YYYY Corp.'s CTO, Mr. YYYY, agreed. “This is the best product in the entire universe. I adore it more than life itself,” he added. This way, you have the speaker’s name front and center, but you’re allowed the leeway to make the statement flow better - and be more appealing. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/64 "2002-08-30T14:04:52Z")
Sorry for the belated thanks; for some reason this didn’t show up in a 24-hour search. Thanks for the pointers! ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/65 "2002-08-30T14:19:22Z")
Oh sure, anytime! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/66 "2002-08-30T14:25:17Z")
Which is correct: You can go upstairs but do not play in your _father’s and mine’s room._ (This can’t be right, unless I am from Brooklyn, which I am not.) or is it \*your me and your father’s room \*? Also, more importantly, which is your favorite font 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/67 "2002-08-30T14:30:04Z")
I’d say it’s: Your father’s and my room. or My and your father’s room. I think. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/68 "2002-08-30T14:30:24Z")
Favorite font: Comic Sans MS! You can go upstairs but do not play in our room. 🙂 or You can go upstairs but do not play in mine and your father’s room. “mine’s” is incorrect - “mine” is already possessive; adding the apostrophe-ess doesn’t make it more possessive. And although “your” is possessive, it can’t possess “me.” I’m not your me. This is one of those instances in which it’s better to redo the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/69 "2002-08-30T14:31:52Z")
Crap. “You can go upstairs but do not play in my and your father’s room.” Still awkward, but accurate. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/70 "2002-08-30T21:01:27Z")
(It’s one of those deals like the test for whether you want “me” or “I” – take out the other half and see what works. “You can’t play in my room,” not “you can’t play in mine room.”) ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/71 "2002-08-31T12:24:33Z")
How about the split infinitive? I heard somewhere that it is becoming more acceptable. To me, “boldly to go where no one has gone before” or “to go boldly …” just sounds better than “to boldly go…” ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/72 "2002-08-31T12:43:33Z")
**h.sapiens** , we only change that if leaving it makes the sentence awkward. Certainly, I’d never change “To boldly go where no one has gone before,” because everyone knows it by that. to happily run through the fields should be to run happily through the fields The meaning isn’t changed, and it actually scans a lot better. But there are times when it’s simply not necessary to make the change, so we leave it as is. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/73 "2002-08-31T14:53:09Z")
The rule against the split infinitive is a “false rule” created by purists who believed that English should be more like Latin. But you _can’t_ split infinitives in Latin, as they are one word – that’s why the “rule” isn’t really applicable. As **dantheman** explained, it’s often an improvement to remove the split, but a split inifinitive is not automatically an error. ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/74 "2002-08-31T19:47:56Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by dantheman \* \*\* There’s books, magazines, Web sites, and so forth, and then within each medium there’s innumerable genres - science, language, sports, entertainment, and so forth. \*\* [QUOTE] Shouldn’t that read “There **are** books, magazines, Web sites, and so forth…”? And how should I properly place the ? in the sentence above? I’m still learning on the job after 14 years in the newspaper business and one as copy editor. Any help is gratefully appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/75 "2002-09-01T02:00:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > Shouldn’t that read “There **are** books, magazines, Web sites, and so forth…”? > > And how should I properly place the ? in the sentence above? > > I’m still learning on the job after 14 years in the newspaper business and one as copy editor. Any help is gratefully appreciated. 😛 Yup, you’re definitely right. Maybe I needed coffee when I posted that. When you’re including a quote, commas and periods go inside the quotation marks, but question marks and exclamation marks go outside - unless they’re part of the actual quote. “What do you mean?” Did he say, “What do you mean”? Semicolons and colons also go outside of quotation marks. I knew what he “meant”; that is, I understood him. Let’s look at the following “list”: eggs, butter, and a goat. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/76 "2002-09-01T05:44:09Z")
I was going to go into a long explanation with examples, but I figure the easiest way to ask this question is: What are the punctuation rules for parentheses? Where do the periods go? In or out? What if the parenthetical comment is at the end of the sentence and nothing more follows it? Help! (I’m almost certainly too fond of parenthetical comments, but I actually speak that way and I yam what I yam.) \<---- so was that correct? Wah. ---
**Author:** ![Lodrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@Lodrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lodrain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/77 "2002-09-01T10:24:30Z")
Am I too late for the party? I’m the copy editor for my high school’s yearbook. I’m in charge of dumbing it down for the benefit of the slack-jawed, Skoal-munching yokels in our school so they don’t riot because they had to _think_ to read the captions. It’s a thankless job I had to be _threatened_ to accept and I’m just glad I’m gonna be moving away soon to a place where I’m not obligated to use Adobe Pagemaker ever again. Ha! Take that, yearbook staff! Ungrateful cob-libblers. Never going back into editing again, even if they try to shift my decision with a team of wild horses. (note: I’m not really that cranky, but you should see me when deadlines roll around. Ker-ank-y.) ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/78 "2002-09-01T11:57:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*When you’re including a quote, commas and periods go inside the quotation marks, but question marks and exclamation marks go outside - unless they’re part of the actual quote. > > “What do you mean?” > > Did he say, “What do you mean”?\*\* More coffee at table 6! Actually, the question mark goes inside the quotes in that last example also, since the quoted material is also a question: Did he say, “What you do you mean?” The question mark applies to both sentences. When the end punctuation of the quoted material is a “strong” mark such as ! or ?, it “overrides” a period that would normally end the main sentence and is allowed to stand as ending punctuation for both. Here are some more examples: This coffee is terrible. Did he say, “This coffee is terrible”? This coffee tastes like Satan’s piss! Did he say, “This coffee tastes like Satan’s piss!”? What the hell did you put in this coffee? He spluttered, “What the hell did you put in this coffee?” * * * (And as long as I’m here . . .) **Stoid,** the rules for punctuating parenthetical statements are very similar to those for quotations. (If the punctuation is part of the quoted material, the punctuation goes inside.) But if not, it goes outside (like this). If your parenthetical remark is a complete sentence, and it falls at the end of the outer sentence, technically you would leave off the inner punctuation, like this (this is getting rather tedious). But if it’s a “strong” mark such as ? or !, you would use double punctuation (isn’t this fun?). But I will usually set off a complete sentence in parens off by itself. (This allows the reader to completely digest the first thought and then process the second, without leaving the first “hanging.”) Another thing to remember is that if something in parens is followed by a comma (like this), DO NOT place a second comma BEFORE the parens, (like this), because that is a common error. Use commas, like this, or parens (like this) to set off a phrase, but not both. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/79 "2002-09-01T15:47:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*I was going to go into a long explanation with examples, but I figure the easiest way to ask this question is: > > What are the punctuation rules for parentheses? Where do the periods go? In or out? What if the parenthetical comment is at the end of the sentence and nothing more follows it? Help! (I’m almost certainly too fond of parenthetical comments, but I actually speak that way and I yam what I yam.) \<---- so was that correct? > > Wah. \*\* **Stoid** , You use punctuation at the end of a parenthetical statement only if you would so otherwise; in other words, if it’s an actual sentence: You don’t know who I am. (I do, however, know who you are.) In this case, the parenthetical statement exists on its own - it’s basically an aside. Your example at the end of your post is correct. Here’s another example: You don’t know who I am (but I know who you are). In this case, the parenthetical statement is an aside but is still part of the original sentence. Therefore it’s set off by parentheses, but the punctuation goes after the closing parentheis. On this subject, you would rarely have a full sentence inside parentheses in the middle of another sentence; these almost always occur at the end of a sentence. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784/80 "2002-09-01T15:52:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scarlett67 \* > \*\* > > Actually, the question mark goes inside the quotes in that last example also, since the quoted material is also a question: > > Did he say, “What you do you mean?” > > The question mark applies to both sentences. When the end punctuation of the quoted material is a “strong” mark such as ! or ?, it “overrides” a period that would normally end the main sentence and is allowed to stand as ending punctuation for both. Here are some more examples: > > This coffee is terrible. > Did he say, “This coffee is terrible”? > > This coffee tastes like Satan’s piss! > Did he say, “This coffee tastes like Satan’s piss!”? > > What the hell did you put in this coffee? > He spluttered, “What the hell did you put in this coffee?” > \*\* Humm… Do you have a cite for this? In the first example, I think the sentence itself overrides what’s inside the quotes. The whole sentence is a question; therefore the question mark should go outside the quote marks. Also, the question mark is needed mostly to indicate a rise in the inflection of the speaker’s voice. If the question mark follows the quote - since the overall sentence is a question - then there’s no need to put one inside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-copy-editor/125784.md?page=5)