# Ask the "crazy" settler **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 15, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889 "2010-09-15T21:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/81 "2010-09-16T16:40:13Z")
As **Lemur866** said, I do not support unilateral annexation of the West Bank. I think we should hold on to it until we can establish new borders by way of a peace agreement. And yes, I think that the settlements probably shouldn’t have been established in the first place, but now that they’re here, they have to be taken into account. We have a saying here (actually an old car insurance company slogan, but whatever): “Don’t be right, be smart”. That’s the problem here, I think: too many people on all sides are wasting time talking about rights and all other kinds of woulda-coulda-shouldas, instead of actually sitting down and reaching an agreement based on the way things actually _are_. Thankfully, they’ve been making some progress lately. I don’t have much confidence in the clowns running my country, but even they can do something right now and again. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/82 "2010-09-16T18:26:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’ll fight to keep my home and country against the aboriginals, but I believe they have a moral right to fight to take it back. Why would you fight someone whose cause was moral? And why do “Aboriginals” have a right to your house? I’m Canadian too. They have no right to my house. I was born here. I’m as a native a Canadian as any human who has ever lived. If you were born here then so are you, and if you’re a naturalized citizen then legally you’re equal to me anyway. > [@](#): > > The Jews are the only dispossessed people from way back that I know of who have maintained their distinct identity and culture with a constant view to > return to their land and possess it as a people. With due respect, that, too, is a crock of shit. Assigning the right to own land to people because they really want to is flatly absurd. Israel has the right to exist because it does; there’s no denying that the State of Israel constitutes a sovereign nation now, built with blood, sweat and tears, populated by people who want it to exist and strongly feel its existence is part of their safety and right to self-determination, with many native-born citizens, and contesting its right to exist is no longer a reasonable position. But to argue that they further should get to keep all of the “Biblical” lands, as our OP as suggested, and assign that right to no argument more convincing than “because we’ve always wanted it” is the height of insanity. We can’t run the world that way. I certainly don’t have any easy answers to the Israel/Palestinian problem (in part because it involves many other states who see value in fomenting Jew-hating and funding terrorism) but the answer sure as hell isn’t “'Cause God gave it to us.” > [@](#): > > The right of conquest is extinguished once you’ve been conquered. Whaaaaa? But the Jews were themselves conquered. So their right to conquest must therefore be extinguished. Are you only allowed to conquer something once? You’re just trying to avoid DtC’s unassailable point; if the “right to conquest” gives Israel rights over land they have conquered then, if the rules are the same for everyone, a successful pana-Arab conquest of Israel would give them right of conquest over Israel. If, on the other hand, you are taking the absolutely bizarre position that you’re only allowed to own land once and being conquered negates future right of conquest, then the Jews, having been quite convincingly conquered by the Romans, don’t get takeback rights. Of course, at this point you’re just making shit up, but even making shit up you can’t seem to stay consistent. The rules are the same for everyone. Don’t get squeamish if it means the wrong side might use them to their advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/83 "2010-09-16T18:29:35Z")
The thought of moving to Israel has crossed my mind, what was the first step you made? And how did you decide where you wanted to live? Did a settlement seem like a better idea to you than a city or a Kibbutz? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/84 "2010-09-16T18:41:04Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > The US “stole” Texas from Mexico, and we’ve reached a mutual agreement that the matter is settled. > > Actually, the Texans fought a war of independence and did not join the US until almost 10 years after breaking away from Mexico. Point taken, but the principle is the same. We fight wars, and we redraw borders all the time. It’s not a matter of “right”, it’s a cold hard fact of existence. When we have a world government, then maybe things will change. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/85 "2010-09-16T19:39:31Z")
It sounds like you lived in America for quite awhile, so you’re probably familiar with what non-Israeli’s think life in Israel is like. After your move, what are some of the things that you fond were wrong about the stereotypical outsiders view? Also, given how much uhhhh let’s call it conviction that some people have about the Israel/Palestine issue, how often do you have to deal with cranky beggars in tubs? For example, if you travel outside Israel do you often run into problems like this? Have you gotten used to being called a criminal by people halfway around the world yet? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/86 "2010-09-16T20:00:21Z")
> [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > Some background: > > So, if anyone has any questions, remember to raise your hands. I have a few random questions: 1. Do Israeli Jews look different than American Jews? Can you tell the difference between an Israeli-Jew and an Israeli-Arab? 2. Is marijuana as accessible there as it is in the U.S? More? Less? If you don’t know, just give me a guess. 3. How diverse is Israel? Do you see Asians? Blacks? Gays? 4. Are you afraid for your safety? (You know, a wayward missle or something) 5. Are the police friendly in Israel like they are in the U.S? 6. What season is it in Israel now? 7. What do Israelis typically eat for breakfast? Pancakes? (Turkey) Sausage? Potatoes? Orange juice? 8. How does Israel have a judiciary if there is no Constitution to interpret? 9. Do you hear a lot about the U.S in Israel? Do most Israelis understand or speak English? ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/87 "2010-09-16T20:05:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > What right does France have to Strasbourg? What right does Poland have to Danzig? What right does (North) Vietnam have to Saigon? What right does the U.S. have to Texas? > > > > Maps are drawn by wars. You’re allowed think that they shouldn’t be; you’re allowed to think that they aren’t anymore - although in the latter case, you’d be obliged to explain why the cutoff date was before 1967. > > By those standards, then everybody has a right to steal whatever they want at any time. Well, they may not have the _right_, but they have the _ability._ (Sorta the reverse of Ron White’s bit about getting in trouble with the cops: "At that point, I had the _right_ to remain silent. \ But I didn’t have the _ability._) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/88 "2010-09-16T20:15:03Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > > > Some background: > > > > So, if anyone has any questions, remember to raise your hands. > > I have a few random questions: > > 1. Do Israeli Jews look different than American Jews? Can you tell the difference between an Israeli-Jew and an Israeli-Arab? > 2. Is marijuana as accessible there as it is in the U.S? More? Less? If you don’t know, just give me a guess. > 3. How diverse is Israel? Do you see Asians? Blacks? Gays? > 4. Are you afraid for your safety? (You know, a wayward missle or something) > 5. Are the police friendly in Israel like they are in the U.S? > 6. What season is it in Israel now? > 7. What do Israelis typically eat for breakfast? Pancakes? (Turkey) Sausage? Potatoes? Orange juice? > 8. How does Israel have a judiciary if there is no Constitution to interpret? > 9. Do you hear a lot about the U.S in Israel? Do most Israelis understand or speak English? Israelis joke about being the 51st state, or the 6th burrough of NYC. English is widely spoken, and is one of the 3 official languages, along with Hebrew and Arabic. Northern hemisphere, so same seasons as the US. Climate a bit like CA. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/89 "2010-09-16T20:22:30Z")
> [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > In the U.S., I would never let them walk the dog at night. Did the dog get to go with you? ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/90 "2010-09-16T21:06:37Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > The thought of moving to Israel has crossed my mind, what was the first step you made? And how did you decide where you wanted to live? Did a settlement seem like a better idea to you than a city or a Kibbutz? The first thing we did was go to the Jewish Agency shaliach and open a tik. Then we just started researching places to live and job opportunities. And we spoke to lots and lots of people who made aliyah before us, especially a family of very close friends who were our inspiration to make aliyah. I came to Israel by myself about 1 1/2 years before we made aliyah, and did some job research and had some informational interviews. We came as a family on a pilot trip to check out the places on our short list of places to live. I also had some more employment meetings. We looked most at the places where we thought our kids would be happiest. As anyone who has made aliyah with teenagers will tell you, one unhappy teenager can ruin aliyah for the entire family. We also made sure that all 3 kids were OK with our decision to come. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/91 "2010-09-16T21:21:11Z")
> [@godix](#): > > It sounds like you lived in America for quite awhile, so you’re probably familiar with what non-Israeli’s think life in Israel is like. After your move, what are some of the things that you fond were wrong about the stereotypical outsiders view? I know that many Americans think that **all** of Israel is under constant attack, and that Israelis spend most of their time cringing in shelters. They tend to think this is a 3rd world country without electricity or running water. We knew this wasn’t true before we came, but people are surprised to hear that we live a normal life. My parents came to visit earlier this year; it was the first time they’d been in Israel in 25 or so years. They were quite surprised to see we weren’t living on a hilltop somewhere in a caravan. > [@](#): > > Also, given how much uhhhh let’s call it conviction that some people have about the Israel/Palestine issue, how often do you have to deal with cranky beggars in tubs? For example, if you travel outside Israel do you often run into problems like this? Have you gotten used to being called a criminal by people halfway around the world yet? I’ve only been outside of Israel once in the time we’ve been here; I flew Turkish Air back and forth to America. I didn’t have any problems; it’s not like I wore a t shirt that said “I live in Israel!” I entered and left the U.S. on my American passport, so I didn’t have to deal with visas. And other than here, nobody has called me a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/92 "2010-09-16T21:39:48Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I have a few random questions: > > 1. Do Israeli Jews look different than American Jews? Can you tell the difference between an Israeli-Jew and an Israeli-Arab? If they are dressed the same, not always. > [@](#): > > 1. Is marijuana as accessible there as it is in the U.S? More? Less? If you don’t know, just give me a guess. I have no clue at all. I couldn’t even take a guess. > [@](#): > > 1. How diverse is Israel? Do you see Asians? Blacks? Gays? There are Asians here - Filipinos dominate the private home health care market. There are African refugees here, and a sect of Black “Jews” as well. There are gays, but they don’t usually stand out. > [@](#): > > 1. Are you afraid for your safety? (You know, a wayward missle or something) In these parts, more afraid of rocks coming through the car windows, or Molotov cocktails being thrown at cars. We have a security fence around the yishuv, and armed guards at the gates. There is an armed security patrol that makes the rounds. There’s also an emergency response squad that can be alerted for emergencies. Weapons (usually sidearms) are carried openly, and there always a few guys from the emergency squad who carry their rifles with them. > [@](#): > > 1. Are the police friendly in Israel like they are in the U.S? I guess it depends on the specific officer, just like in the U.S. Some are, some not. > [@](#): > > 1. What season is it in Israel now? Summer heading into fall. > [@](#): > > 1. What do Israelis typically eat for breakfast? Pancakes? (Turkey) Sausage? Potatoes? Orange juice? Breads, cheeses, rolls, salad, cereal. The staple breakfast for kids is a roll and shoko (chocolate milk in a bag). There is a long line of kids buying this stuff every morning at the makolet (corner store). The cool thing about the makolet is we can run a tab there. > [@](#): > > 1. How does Israel have a judiciary if there is no Constitution to interpret? Still working on how the whole judiciary works here. I’ll get back to you on this one. > [@](#): > > 1. Do you hear a lot about the U.S in Israel? Do most Israelis understand or speak English? Of course - Obama is routinely praised or hated here, depending on the medial outlet. But yes, we do hear a lot of U.S. news. Almost all of the young Israelis speak some English; I think they start learning 4th grade. The older people may not speak it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/93 "2010-09-16T21:41:27Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > > > In the U.S., I would never let them walk the dog at night. > > Did the dog get to go with you? Yes,it was my job to walk her between sundown and sunup. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/94 "2010-09-16T22:03:46Z")
[quote=“Honesty, post:86, topic:553889”] > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > 1. Do Israeli Jews look different than American Jews? Can you tell the difference between an Israeli-Jew and an Israeli-Arab? > 2. Is marijuana as accessible there as it is in the U.S? More? Less? If you don’t know, just give me a guess. > 3. How diverse is Israel? Do you see Asians? Blacks? Gays? > 4. Are you afraid for your safety? (You know, a wayward missle or something) > 5. Are the police friendly in Israel like they are in the U.S? > 6. What season is it in Israel now? > 7. What do Israelis typically eat for breakfast? Pancakes? (Turkey) Sausage? Potatoes? Orange juice? > 8. How does Israel have a judiciary if there is no Constitution to interpret? > 9. Do you hear a lot about the U.S in Israel? Do most Israelis understand or speak English? If I may, I could answer these questions myself (I’ve lived in the U.S. for several years, so I could provide some perspective). 1. Israeli Jews are much more diverse than American Jews - while most American Jews come from Eastern and Central Europe, Israelis come from such diverse places as North Africa, Ethiopia, Russia, Iran, the Balkans, India and Georgia (the one in the Caucasus). Even the Ashkenazi Jews with heritage identical to their American counterparts tend to have much better tans. As for Israeli Arabs - sometimes you can tell them apart from Jews by their looks, sometimes you can’t. Very few of them speak accentless Hebrew, though. 1. I don’t partake myself, but marijuana is used extensively here - maybe not as much as in the U.S., but it’s not uncommon; plenty of my friends use on occasion. I’d say that it’s not a popular among teenagers as it is in the States; it’s mainly a 20- and 30something pastime. 2. Besides black and Asian Jews, Israel has plenty of immigrant workers, mostly Africans, Chinese and Filipinos (the latter completely dominating the caregiver profession). My son has several African and Chinese kids in his kindergarten. As for gays - sure. Tel Aviv in particular has a very vibrant gay culture; I have several rainbow flags hanging out windows on my block alone. There are plenty of celebrities out of the closet… and gays are allowed to serve openly in the military. Of course, some parts of Israel are more gay-friendly than others - in this like in many other things, Israel is like the U.S. compressed to the size of New Jersey. 1. Nah. Terrorism is way down in recent years, and crime rates are still low. Besides, Israelis are very good at compartmentalizing. 2. I’d say that cops are even friendlier, or maybe it’s just that they’re less formal. Israelis tend not to be impressed by authority. 3. It’s officially autumn now, although the temperatures aren’t really that much different than a month ago. I’d say we still have a good 2 months of T-shirt weather, at least. 4. The traditional Israeli breakfast consists of bread and cheese (generally white cheeses like cottage cheese), eggs and tomato and cucumber salad, finely chopped; I suspect most people just eat cornflakes these days. 5. The Israeli judicial system is based on the British, which also doesn’t have a constitution; they seem to make it work. Judges rule based on the law, on precedent and on "universal principles - the Supreme Court has an extraordinary amount of power and leeway, and tends to be quite liberal. 6. Israelis follow U.S. culture and politics very closely. Most of the foreign shows on TV are American - undubbed - as is most foreign music. The “51st State” comment mentioned above is something we joke about a lot; Israelis definitely have a higher opinion of Americans than they have of, say, Europeans. Most Israelis speak and read English - I read somewhere that after the Netherlands, Israel has highest relative amount of English speakers of anywhere in the world (excluding English-speaking countries, of course). English is considered the second most important subject in high school, after math, and many of the books and articles I was assigned in college were in untranslated English. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/95 "2010-09-16T22:09:30Z")
\*\* Shinna Minna Ma\*\*, did you speak Hebrew before you moved there? Is the Hebrew in Israel different from that you learned (assuming you did)? I had a professor of Old Testment who said he triggered gales of merriment every time he tried to speak Hebrew in Israel, but he could read the newspapers just fine. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/96 "2010-09-16T22:54:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > \*\* Shinna Minna Ma\*\*, did you speak Hebrew before you moved there? Is the Hebrew in Israel different from that you learned (assuming you did)? > > I had a professor of Old Testment who said he triggered gales of merriment every time he tried to speak Hebrew in Israel, but he could read the newspapers just fine. > > Regards, > Shodan My Hebrew, quite frankly, is atrocious. I live in a somewhat Anglo area and I work with Anglos, so during the day I have few chances to speak Hebrew other than to the bus drivers or to the guy who runs the makolet. I can make doctor appointments and ask directions. If I go to a party, I would sound like a 3 year old. My kids Hebrew is impressive. When was I most impressed? When I saw them Facebooking and texting in Hebrew. They roll their eyes when they hear me speaking. I’ve appointed them my official translators. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/97 "2010-09-16T23:00:31Z")
Shodam, I should add that even if I knew the vocabulary well, I would never sound like a real Israeli. One of the things I love to do here is listen to the little kids speak Hebrew. I don’t even think my kids will ever sound like real Israelis, because they were too old to pick up the proper pronunciations of the “rolling resh.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/98 "2010-09-16T23:18:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > So why did you choose to live in a place that violates the law, instead of in a city in Israel that does not? > > Perhaps because according to Israeli law - at the moment, the law of the land - she is not violating any law. Perhaps you could tell us what makes Israeli law applicable outside of Israel? :dubious: > [@](#): > > (I’m not a fan of the settler movement, to say the least, but I object to people being called criminals before they have been tried and convicted before a court of law). Does this “Israeli law” you speak of have anything to say about possession of stolen property? > [@Alessan](#): > > Maps are drawn by wars. Initially. They are confirmed by peace treaties, based on a mutual recognition of their location and by a mutual recognition of the peoples on both sides to live with those borders in peace. Until that happens, they are merely lines of occupation. > [@](#): > > You’re allowed think that they shouldn’t be; you’re allowed to think that they aren’t anymore - although in the latter case, you’d be obliged to explain why the cutoff date was before 1967. You do realize that cleans up anything anyone might say about the Romans or Ottomans or even the British, don’t you? > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > > [@Baboonanza](#): > > > > So, do you believe that settlements past the green line are legitimate parts of Isreal? If so, why? > > I believe in the greater biblical Israel, so yes. What does “the greater biblical Israel” consist of? Where are its borders, and what is their biblical basis? > [@](#): > > And more generally, are you happy for the Palestine ‘problem’ to continue indefinitely? If not, what would your solution be? I would be most happy if it would end. How that would happen, I honestly can’t say. [/quote] Can you honestly say you’re part of the solution, not part of the problem? > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > I’ve only been outside of Israel once in the time we’ve been here Know what? You LIVE outside of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/99 "2010-09-16T23:35:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > I’ll fight to keep my home and country against the aboriginals, but I believe they have a moral right to fight to take it back. > > Why would you fight someone whose cause was moral? Because my cause is moral as well. Issues do not always resolve into black and white . > [@](#): > > And why do “Aboriginals” have a right to your house? I’m Canadian too. They have no right to my house. I was born here. I’m as a native a Canadian as any human who has ever lived. If you were born here then so are you, and if you’re a naturalized citizen then legally you’re equal to me anyway. Your right and my right has been established by the Canadian/British government and no higher authority. They assumed that authority by putting the indigenous population under duress. Our rights are limited to the right of the British Crown to take sovereignty overBritish North America > [@](#): > > With due respect, that, too, is a crock of shit. Assigning the right to own land to people because they really want to is flatly absurd. Its not about the right to own land. It is about the right to have jurisdiction over land . And it is not about simple desire to have jurisddiction over land, it is about the desire to recover jurisdiction over land. > [@](#): > > Israel has the right to exist because it does; there’s no denying that the State of Israel constitutes a sovereign nation now, built with blood, sweat and tears, populated by people who want it to exist and strongly feel its existence is part of their safety and right to self-determination, with many native-born citizens, and contesting its right to exist is no longer a reasonable position. But to argue that they further should get to keep all of the “Biblical” lands, as our OP as suggested, and assign that right to no argument more convincing than “because we’ve always wanted it” is the height of insanity. We can’t run the world that way. If it is your style to inflate my position in order to argue against me, you can argue by yourself. I’m not opposed . > [@](#): > > I certainly don’t have any easy answers to the Israel/Palestinian problem (in part because it involves many other states who see value in fomenting Jew-hating and funding terrorism) but the answer sure as hell isn’t “'Cause God gave it to us.” Who said that in this thread ? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The right of conquest is extinguished once you’ve been conquered. > > Whaaaaa? > > But the Jews were themselves conquered. So their right to conquest must therefore be extinguished. Are you only allowed to conquer something once? The so called right of conquest only applies to 1967.That has not been extinguished > [@](#): > > You’re just trying to avoid DtC’s unassailable point; if the “right to conquest” gives Israel rights over land they have conquered then, if the rules are the same for everyone, a successful pana-Arab conquest of Israel would give them right of conquest over Israel. If, on the other hand, you are taking the absolutely bizarre position that you’re only allowed to own land once and being conquered negates future right of conquest, then the Jews, having been quite convincingly conquered by the Romans, don’t get takeback rights. Of course, at this point you’re just making shit up, but even making shit up you can’t seem to stay consistent. Your problem is that you see rights as a zero sum game over time. Furthermore, you see an Israeli annexation of the West Bank as stealing land, but you would have no problem if it was turned over to Jordon or Syria or even back to Turkey. Frankly, I find that position anti-semetic. > [@](#): > > The rules are the same for everyone. Don’t get squeamish if it means the wrong side might use them to their advantage. Bring it on\>;) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/100 "2010-09-16T23:39:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What does “the greater biblical Israel” consist of? Where are its borders, and what is their biblical basis? Probably the definition in Numbers 34: > [@](#): > > The LORD said to Moses, "Command the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter Canaan, the land that will be allotted to you as an inheritance will have these boundaries: > > 'Your southern side will include some of the Desert of Zin along the border of Edom. On the east, your southern boundary will start from the end of the Salt Sea, cross south of Scorpion Pass, continue on to Zin and go south of Kadesh Barnea. Then it will go to Hazar Addar and over to Azmon, where it will turn, join the Wadi of Egypt and end at the Sea. > > 'Your western boundary will be the coast of the Great Sea. This will be your boundary on the west. > > 'For your northern boundary, run a line from the Great Sea to Mount Hor and from Mount Hor to Lebo Hamath. Then the boundary will go to Zedad, continue to Ziphron and end at Hazar Enan. This will be your boundary on the north. > > 'For your eastern boundary, run a line from Hazar Enan to Shepham. The boundary will go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain and continue along the slopes east of the Sea of Kinnereth. Then the boundary will go down along the Jordan and end at the Salt Sea. > > ‘This will be your land, with its boundaries on every side.’ Modern borders, that’s pretty much Israel, the Territories, and Lebanon, extending a little bit into Egypt and Syria, and not including the southern Negev. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889.md?page=6)