# Ask the "crazy" settler **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 15, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889 "2010-09-15T21:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/161 "2010-09-22T16:19:55Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Bamboo\_Boy](#): > > > > How do you feel about the fact that. legalities aside, you are living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens? > > I’m not the OP, but I’m curious as to whether you’d ask the same question of all American citizens? Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/162 "2010-09-22T16:24:42Z")
**Shinna Minna Ma** , do you know what the area was like before the settlement was founded? I hope this does not push the thread back to debates or baiting. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/163 "2010-09-22T17:05:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Bamboo\_Boy](#): > > > > How do you feel about the fact that. legalities aside, you are living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens? > > I’m not the OP, but I’m curious as to whether you’d ask the same question of all American citizens? So you believe that righting a wrong from over 200 years ago in which participants from both sides are long dead and buried is _exactly_ the same as attempting to right a wrong that is currently happening? If you are going to object, at least be sensible about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/164 "2010-09-22T17:25:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > I’m not the OP, but I’m curious as to whether you’d ask the same question of all American citizens? > > So you believe that righting a wrong from over 200 years ago in which participants from both sides are long dead and buried is _exactly_ the same as attempting to right a wrong that is currently happening? > If you are going to object, at least be sensible about it. Look around and see what’s going on in many of the reservations of North America. Our aboriginals are far worse off than the Palistinians of the West Bank and Gaza. But then, that’s what you get when you are a peaceful people. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/165 "2010-09-22T17:34:33Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > So you believe that righting a wrong from over 200 years ago in which participants from both sides are long dead and buried is _exactly_ the same as attempting to right a wrong that is currently happening? > > If you are going to object, at least be sensible about it. > > Look around and see what’s going on in many of the reservations of North America. Our aboriginals are far worse off than the Palistinians of the West Bank and Gaza. > > But then, that’s what you get when you are a peaceful people. If you feel that the way we treat our aboriginals is deplorable, start a separate thread about it, because that has nothing to do with the topic of _this_ thread. “But what about about _that_ over _there_??”=Epic Fail. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/166 "2010-09-22T17:43:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > Look around and see what’s going on in many of the reservations of North America. Our aboriginals are far worse off than the Palistinians of the West Bank and Gaza. > > > > But then, that’s what you get when you are a peaceful people. > > If you feel that the way we treat our aboriginals is deplorable, start a separate thread about it, because that has nothing to do with the topic of _this_ thread. > “But what about about _that_ over _there_??”=Epic Fail. Oh please ! I followed through on a loaded question to the OP after you engaged with asserting the unreasonableness of a contextual anology. If you don’t like my support for the comparison, you are free to start a thread yourself. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/167 "2010-09-22T17:49:57Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Our aboriginals are far worse off than the Palistinians of the West Bank and Gaza. By choice. They have much greater options available to them. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/168 "2010-09-22T20:51:39Z")
[quote=“Bamboo\_Boy, post:158, topic:553889”] > [@Blake](#): > > How do you feel about the fact that. legalities aside, you are living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens? Well, the survivors now operate a very nice casino, but I do feel a bit bad about it, yes. On the other hand, they killed off a few members of my family and enslaved one or two, at least one of which escaped but didn’t make it home. Oh, did you mean Israel? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/169 "2010-09-22T21:13:59Z")
Let’s stay on topic here, people. If you want to talk about the Indian/Palestinian comparison, start a new thread, probably in GD. No warnings issued, but there will be if the hijack continues. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/170 "2010-09-22T21:36:36Z")
> [@Bamboo\_Boy](#): > > How do you feel about the fact that. legalities aside, you are living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens? > > If this was indeed answered and I missed it please direct me to the answer. This is the question I am most curious about in this thread. > Eagerly awaiting an answer, > > BB He feels the same way… ---
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/171 "2010-09-22T23:06:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m not the OP, but I’m curious as to whether you’d ask the same question of all American citizens? Hey everybody- I just want to know what the OP would say to this question (the original one- How do you feel about the fact that. legalities aside, you are living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens?). I didn’t mean to derail the thread- if the answer is: “We are NOT living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens?” or “I don’t care at all” or anything in between, that would be the answer. The poster of the OP, who welcomed questions of any kind, instead answered a totally DIFFERENT question instead. So what say we just let Shinni Minna Ma answer the question. Even an “I prefer not to discuss this particular topic.” Would be completely fine, IMHO. Answering a totally unrelated question is just counter-productive. If anyone has an issue to take up with me, it should be regarding the idea that I would just like to hear this question addressed, which I thought was the whole point of this thread. -BB ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/172 "2010-09-23T02:59:51Z")
How do you know it was taken by military force from innocent people, Bamboo Boy? One of the big issues, why so many Palestinians are displaced, is that they voluntarily left Israel before the Arab armies rolled in to destroy all the jews. So, the military force is in question. As far as innocent people… well, I’ve got to ask, how do you define innocent? The land was taken, not piece by piece, but conquered from governments. Can you really call it ‘taken from innocents’ if it was a government versus government issue? As far as taken… do you know for sure that there weren’t Jews there already? Not all the jews were in Israel proper. But I don’t know the history of the Op’s settlement. Maybe they did clear the land by throwing palestinians off it. The point is, your question is loaded. It’s an imprecise question, because it has so many assumptions in it. Try breaking it down a little further. ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/173 "2010-09-23T08:00:30Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > How do you know it was taken by military force from innocent people, Bamboo Boy? One of the big issues, why so many Palestinians are displaced, is that they voluntarily left Israel before the Arab armies rolled in to destroy all the jews. So, the military force is in question. Yeah… the Palestinians all left their land because they were given radio signals by the invading Arab armies to clear the way so the Jews could be driven into the sea… Or so the story goes. Unfortunately there is no evidence to suggest this is true. But if I lived on that land I’d like to believe it, it would be convieniant. But the truth apears somewhat different. Villages were systematically surrounded on three sides then shelled, the occupants, and I guess you could describe these people as innocent, well, innocent of everything except being Arab, did what any sensible person would do. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/174 "2010-09-23T09:41:09Z")
[quote=“Shinna\_Minna\_Ma, post:30, topic:553889”] > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Because as Orthodox Jews, we feel we belong in Israel. It felt hypocritical, to me, to pray every day about returning to Israel without doing it. This is where we belong. We feel the quality of life is better here. I can go by my Hebrew name, and everyone can pronounce it and knows what it means. We live by a Hebrew calendar here, so we don’t worry about working on Shabbat or holidays. My kids are bilingual, and have much more freedom here than the could have in the U.S. Then why are you maintaining dual citizenship? Does that feel hypocritical at all? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/175 "2010-09-23T09:52:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > What right would Israel have had to do annex that land from the start? > > What right does France have to Strasbourg? What right does Poland have to Danzig? What right does (North) Vietnam have to Saigon? What right does the U.S. have to Texas? > > Maps are drawn by wars. You’re allowed think that they shouldn’t be; you’re allowed to think that they aren’t anymore - although in the latter case, you’d be obliged to explain why the cutoff date was before 1967. that may well be true…but the gains are only given legitimacy when accepted “by the rest of the world” (for lack of a better) term…has that happened yet? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/176 "2010-09-23T09:59:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > But you don’t, and you and I don’t interact as governments do…we interact as citizens do under the lawful authority of a SOVEREIGN NATION. Sovereign nations, however, are, well, SOVEREIGN…that means they do what they like, and the only constraints they have are whatever constraints are imposed on them by OTHER sovereign nations. > -XT Well yeah…but the other soverign nations have pretty much all told Israel that the settlements are NOT ok…they just haven’t gone to war over it (yet) ---
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/177 "2010-09-23T10:10:15Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > How do you know it was taken by military force from innocent people, Bamboo Boy? One of the big issues, why so many Palestinians are displaced, is that they voluntarily left Israel before the Arab armies rolled in to destroy all the jews. So, the military force is in question. > > As far as innocent people… well, I’ve got to ask, how do you define innocent? The land was taken, not piece by piece, but conquered from governments. Can you really call it ‘taken from innocents’ if it was a government versus government issue? > > As far as taken… do you know for sure that there weren’t Jews there already? Not all the jews were in Israel proper. But I don’t know the history of the Op’s settlement. Maybe they did clear the land by throwing palestinians off it. > > The point is, your question is loaded. It’s an imprecise question, because it has so many assumptions in it. Try breaking it down a little further. Seriously? Please see post #171. \. I would like to hear how the OP answers THIS question, loaded or not- not a different one, and certainly not a random one on the repercussions of the actions of the EU. Again: If the answer is: “We are NOT living on land taken by miliary force from innocent people who are now forced to live as refugees or second class citizens!” or “I don’t care at all” or anything in between, that would be the answer. The poster of the OP, who welcomed questions of any kind, instead answered a totally DIFFERENT question instead. So what say we just let Shinni Minna Ma answer the question. Even an “I prefer not to discuss this particular topic.” Would be completely fine, IMHO. Answering a totally unrelated question is just counter-productive. -BB ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/178 "2010-09-23T13:17:41Z")
Folks, it’s [sukkot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukkot), which may or may not limit the OP’s online time. If you want to argue amongst yourselves on any of these issues, please start a new thread, probably in GD. Otherwise, please wait patiently for the OP’s return. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/179 "2010-09-26T06:51:40Z")
[quote=“Shinna\_Minna\_Ma, post:30, topic:553889”] > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > I > > Because as Orthodox Jews, we feel we belong in Israel. It felt hypocritical, to me, to pray every day about returning to Israel without doing it. This is where we belong. I thought the whole point about “returning to Israel”, in Judaism, is that it would happen when the Messiah returns (hence why so few Jews, through he centuries, did “go back” to Jerusalem, even after recurring pogroms. I say “go back’” with commas, because if somebody can point to me the supposed moment in time where Jews were expelled from Israel, or Palestine, I’de be curious to know-This is an open question, not reserved to the OP). But I’d be glad too to have the OP explain to me why alyah is now considered necessary or an important part of Judaism when it was the exact contrary for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889/180 "2010-09-26T10:21:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > my 40something year old stepsister has become a very Orthodox jew, going so far as to live in a certain area in L.A. with a jewish "community, withing walking distance of her temple, keeping kosher, teaching her kids Hebrew, etc. Like the OP I guess, but not quite to that extent (yet). > > Her husband (also Orthodox and an Israeli) has to drive about 90 minutes each way to work as a result of their choice of neighborhoods. > > As far as I can tell, it has little to do with “God” and more to do with living by a set of rules to be part of this particular group. I’m not even sure they believe in God. > > So, my question, **Shinna Minna Ma** , since you didn’t answer my last one, is whether you have moved to Israel to be to be a “good jew” and be around others who are also, or because you think it’s part of what God wants for you? We moved here because this is what God commanded us to do in the Torah. Previously, we lived in an area on the east coast of the U.S., surrounded by thousands of other observant Jews. (Not in NY, by the way) We feel we can be better Jews here in Israel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-crazy-settler/553889.md?page=10)