Ask the Debt Collector (Ouch, stop hitting me!)

In My Humble Opinion
21

Ack, wrong coding in above post. :slight_smile:

Brujo, skip tracing is the …“art” of finding people. Sometimes, people simply move and their mail doesn’t get forwarded, or they don’t leave a new phone number (or they choose to be unlisted.) SOMETIMES, people hide from their bills by intentionally letting their mail continue to go to old addresses, or by putting the wrong information down at the time of the bill/service, whatever. When this happens, if they owe enough money, a collector will “skip trace” them, or try to locate them through various public records, and other information.

Database: There is not a locator database, but there are several ways to find information about someone. For example, since I used to collect on checks and warrants, the agency I worked for was allowed access to the TDL (Texas Driver’s License) database. I could pull up people by their names, license #s or even just addresses. I could also see their marriage records, divorce records and car registration info. Collectors also can use the internet, and use phone directory services (online and off). One of the most useful tools for a skip trace is the credit report. These can have a lot of useful information (but not always) OR they can show you that the person you are after has a HORRIBLE credit history, and you can forget about trying to collect from him. (I once found a credit report for a guy that had 3 bankruptcies, 2 car repos and a foreclosure…with a list of about 100 past due creditors to boot. I immediately closed his file, what’s the point?)

Lawyers get involved for collectors when it is clear that the debt is valid, the debtor can pay the bill, and has been given EVERY opportunity to do so, but hasn’t. When the debts start to get old, creditors get nervous about ever getting their money, and will start to pressure the debtor or take him/her to court. There is a 7 year limitation on debts in the US. DEBTS (NOT warrants, hot checks and judgements) are only valid for 7 years, at which point they cease to exist. Some states allow “garnishment” of wages, whereby the debtor pays a certain amount out of their paycheck until the debt is paid. If a creditor can, and the collectors can’t get anywhere with the person, this is the route they persue.

BrotherCadfael, gotpasswords is right. Hospital bills are considered something that was a necessity, not a frivilous expenditure. People who are really sick do eventually get to the point where they cannot pay their doctor bills, and once insurance/medicade stops covering it, they are out of luck. Doctor bills can still be garnished, if you live in such a state. (GA is one, TX is not.)

NurseCarmen, I wasn’t :rolleyes: at you, I promise! I actually posted the turnip comment earlier in the day, but the server was too busy. I have heard that comment a LOT. I truthfully couldn’t give you an honest estimate that you would believe.

What do you tell the collector? Simply put: “I am not X. She no longer works here, I’m actually her replacement.” (Did the coworkers like her? If not, ask them where she is, they might have a clue for the collector to start with! If they did, they probably won’t help you with this. ~L~) Even if it’s not 100% sure, tell them you get calls like this for her all the time, and you would LOVE to be able to tell them where she is, just so you don’t have to deal with this all the time. If the person doesn’t believe you, tell them to do an “employment verification” on said ex employee. (But quietman beat me to that one. :slight_smile:

Yes, I wish there were more people in this world who actually did pay their bills and felt responsible for them!

~J

22

The most original person I collected from called me the anti-Christ because I was collecting a debt owed by their Christian bookstore. Collecting from Christian retailers you get things like “God will provide”. I usually tell them that they have to render unto Caesar. The best excuse I had for not taking a call was from a man who said he’d call em back later - he was a volunteer firefighter and his alarm/pager just went off. He did call me back, BTW. I used to work consumer credit, but I’ve worked commercial credit for the last 15 years or so.

StG

23

I had an ER visit over a year ago. I provided my insurance information at the time. About 3 months later I got a bill from the hospital, I called and gave my insurance information again and sent them a copy of a letter my insurance sent me saying they covered the visit. Two months later the same thing happened, the hospital called wanting the $110 for my ER visit, I went through the same thing. I got a letter from them thanking me and apologizing for the mistake. Fast forward 9 months, I am getting calls from a billing agency wanting that $110! I told the woman very nicely that it had been taken care of by my insurance company and she called me a liar. I asked for an address to send the copies of all my letters about this hospital matter and she responded with the crytpic, “This will go on your credit report”. So what do I do now? How do you handle those evil debt collectors who are convinced everyone is lying?

24

Render Unto Caesar is good. Thou Shalt Not Steal works too.

25

First, call the hospital. Tell them that your insurance paid this bill, they know it and you know it. You have proof they know. Ask for a fax number for the person you talk to, and tell them you will fax over the letter WHILE you are on the phone. Be polite, but firm. You don’t have to be “nice”, polite will do. Tell them you are getting calls from the collection agency, and you don’t appreciate them threatening to ruin your credit over a bill that’s been paid for a year.

Second, call the collection agency. Get their fax number, send them copies of the letter from your insurance and from the hospital. THEN mail the letters, certified. Talk to the collector, and tell her that this is taken care of, and make sure she has seen the proof.

The thing is, collectors are lied to ALL the time, so it really becomes second nature to believe that every person you talk to is lying. However, if something really is taken care of, they don’t want to call you because:

a. It’s a waste of time and money they could spend looking for someone who does owe.
b. They could potentially be sued for harrasement.

Make SURE the hospital calls and gets this bill back from the agency. If not, there is a chance that the collection agency will continue to call you, that’s their job. Get the money from the client, less their cut.
If they do put this on your credit, you can have it removed, but it’s a long and arduous process, so do everything you can to make sure it doesn’t get on there at all.

~J

26

A hospital did not submit one of my charges(xray or something) to my insurance company for months until long after my stay . When they finally submitted it, one item, it was refused, because it was submitted to the insurance company too long after this all happened.

The hospital tried to get me to pay, no way, they should have billed the insurance company on time, and at the time of procedure.

27

Susanann: Actually, the hospital is NOT REQUIRED to file your insurance, it’s a courtesy and your responsibility to make sure it’s done.
~J

28

Here’s a question, Jaade. I recently got a collection letter saying I owe the hospital $250. This is unusual because I already paid my hospital bill of nearly $800 several months ago, and haven’t been there since. Is there a way to get the collection agency to give me more details about the alledged debt? Like what services were supposedly performed for the $250?

29

Friedo, yes, by law the collection agency is required to give you proof of the debt.

From:

THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT

As amended by Public Law 104-208, 110 Stat. 3009 (Sept. 30, 1996)

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing –

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer’s written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.
The above is the relevant portion, with a link to the entire law regarding collections, and the laws governing and restricting collectors.

Simply tell the collector you believed that you had paid this bill in its entirity and you need to see the bill before you can pay it. If they say “Pay the bill and then we will send you proof!”, quote the above law and again request a copy. If they still persist, inform them that you will be sending a certified letter requesting the info you asked for, and if the request isn’t honored, you will be hiring an attorney. Carefully document every conversation you have with the agency, including dates and times (because they DO!) and if they refuse, but still try to collect the debt, you can sue them under the above law. ($10,000 for every law they break while talking to you.)

~J

**Please note, I assume you all are in the US, as I don’t NOT know the laws governing the rest of the world. :slight_smile: **

30

I have a coworker I’m helping with a debt collection problem. He’s been misidentified as the debtor (quite obviously so: the debt is from 1992, and he didn’t come to the U.S. until 2000).

So, a couple questions:[list=1][li]What would constitute proof to the debt collection agent that they have the wrong guy? They’re somewhat confident he’s the right guy because they found him by skip-trace, though they may just be reluctant to let go of a good candidate.[/li][li]I called the company who said they were owed money, and they had no record at all of any debt by anyone with his name or SSN. What rights do I have to demand proof of the debt from the debt collection agency?[/li][/list=1]I’m trying to resolve this as calmly as possible for everyone, since the guy is very emotional and deals poorly with the debt collection agent.

31

Sorry, ignore question 2. I just saw your last post.

32

Some time ago, I owed money to Future Shop, which went into collections. I eventually paid it off, however, my credit report lists the debt twice. Once for Future Shop (still owing), once for the collection agency (paid in full). Future Shop is out of business. How can I get the redundant (and incorrect) debt removed?

Thanks,

Justin

33

My SO was attacked over seven years ago, and consequently, his cell phone was stolen. After getting SO settled in ICU, I called the cell phone provider, told them the phone had been stolen, hubby in ICU, turn the dang phone off yada, yada, yada. Later in the month the regular bill came, I paid it and went on my merry way. The next month, I sent copies of the police report and a copy of the cancelled check along to Evil Cell Phone Company and figured everything was hunky dory.

Fast forward to present day - we start getting letters from collection agency, trying to settle the debt. After expalining the above story several hundred times, and explaining that the police records are now in a trailer in someone’s field and in no particular order, I still can’t get these guys off my back.

Any suggestions?

34

Do you, as a collection agency worker, have any way of verifying the debt?

Do you have any recent stats on the error rate? (Naturally, I only care about errors that cost us money! Never mind how many people get away with under or not paying a debt.)

35

How long have you been a collector?

why do some collectors, after an RTP (refusal to pay) insist on verbally abusing the customer when there are other people they could be calling instead?

Do you work directly for the company or are you with an outsource agency?

How do you leave messages?
Thanks for any info you can provide- I work in collections too!

36

**
When the debts start to get old, creditors get nervous about ever getting their money, and will start to pressure the debtor or take him/her to court. There is a 7 year limitation on debts in the US. DEBTS (NOT warrants, hot checks and judgements) are only valid for 7 years, at which point they cease to exist. **

I have a disputed bill originally from GTE; they are no longer providing phone service in this area, {all the existing accounts were bought out by the company that currently provides service} so I was surprised to see a bill from them, especially one that was supposed to be two years old. I called the collection agency and pointed out that if I had owed the money, I wouldn’t have a phone now; as telephone companies tend to cut your service if you owe them large amounts of money and don’t pay. I have always been polite, but firm, since I know this is a mistake and I was sure this would work itself out. I always call them when I receive a letter; I’m not “ducking” anything.

After five years of seeing this bill skip through at least three collection agencies, the last guy I spoke with over this matter became frustrated, started yelling “You HAVE to pay this” I’m sorry, but it was ludicrious; I called him when I received yet another "pay us now " letter, and he ended up screaming and hanging up on me, but not before telling me I would be “sorry”. What he {technically the collection agency he works for} did was list the bill on my credit report; not dated back to 1996, but from 2001. Can they do that? Is the rule seven years after you are supposed to have incurred the debt, or seven years after some collection agency guy looses his temper?

The debt is currently listed as being “in dispute” and apparently, it doesn’t seem to too awful to my would be creditors, because I was just issued a new credit card, but I don’t want it there at all, much less until 2008. Any advice, or is it something that I shouldn’t even worry about?

37

Sorry guys, I was away for a while, I will answer all of your questions now. :slight_smile:

In regards to your fist question:

Give them some proof that he came to the US in the year 2000, and was in whatever other country until that time. Have him tell the debt collector that he is NOT that person, and that the collector is wasting his time by talking to a person that doesn’t owe him money. Does friend have a social? Does the collection agency have the debtor’s? A physical description or list of any relatives? All of that can disprove your friend is said debtor.

~J

38

It’s not an incorrect listing. They can technically both list the debt, though I think anyone reading your credit report would realize they are both the same debt.

You could try to talk to the CRA (Credit Reporting Agency) and see if they would remove the original debt as it is listed twice, and the business no longer exists, but it’s not a guarentee.

I’ve never worked for a CRA, so I don’t have the best info on that side.

Find the paperwork. It’s your responsibility to keep track of such papers. There is one thing I have always told people on the other side of the phone: Do not throw away, or lose papers that prove you don’t owe something. Police reports, reciepts, letters, whatever it is. Keep it, and keep it accessible for 7 years (or forever in the case of warrants and checks). Lots of people use the “stolen” check, cell phone, car, license, identity statement. Unfortunately, you can’t trust that any of these people are telling the truth without proof.

Signatures. People sign forms at the hospital, at the doctor’s office, they sign checks and tickets from police. As long as I have something like that on file, you are liable until you prove you aren’t. A debt collector is REQUIRED to show proof IF the debtor asks for it. (Always in writing, that’s the only way to prove you asked.)

With the number of dishonest people running around, there is no way to tell what the error rate is. In my personal experience, maybe 10 debtors proved to me that we shouldn’t have tried to collect from them. Maybe…

You should actually care, it affects the prices you have to pay for goods and services when other people skip out.

~J

(continuing…)

39

I was a collector for 3 years. I left the business because my last agency refused to stay within the boundaries of the law, and their best collector was a drug addict who liked to come into the office when I was there alone (he was off duty, but I worked Saturdays alone so I could go to school and leave early on other days.)

I think collectors become jaded (I have thought of changing Jaade to Jaded…what do you think? :slight_smile: )and refuse to accept that some people won’t pay. There is always another way to try. And being yelled at all day doesn’t do much for your self-esteem and overall outlook.

I worked with two outsource agencies. One handled primarily hospital/doctor bills in a small town. The other collected warrants and hot checks for Houston, TX and 4 towns in the area.

Messages are tricky, as you well know. You can’t state why you are calling, as it’s against the law. You are required to assume someone else will here the message. My standard message was simply:

“Hello, I am Jaade calling from ____. I am trying to reach Mr./Mrs. X. Please call me back at your earliest convienence. My number is ###-###-####. Thank you.”

At my last agency I could say the initials, but at my first I couldn’t. Both names had the word collections in them.

Good luck, and if you have further questions, feel free to bump the thread! :slight_smile:

The bill will fall off your credit this year, unless you made a payment on it at some time. Don’t worry about it too much. If it’s still on more than seven years after the due date, talk to the CRA and ask them to remove it, it’s a requirement.

The year 2001 probably refers to the year they recieved the bill at their agency, or the year that they listed it on your credit in the first place.

~J