# Ask the ER Doctor **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312 "2009-11-04T19:08:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/121 "2013-01-30T03:18:30Z")
…the faking things for opiates is hopefully something I will never have to do. However, there is a far more likely thing that I am considering right now. A few months ago, I asked my GP (us term aiui: PCP) for a sleep study as I figured I had sleep apnea. And he went through a test, more or less of which every single question was “how likely are you to fall asleep in situation X?” - with X going through a bunch of scenarios. And I could never truthfully answer anything other than pretty damn unlikely. Now that I’ve moved I’m going to ask for a sleep study again, and if I am forced to go through the same test frankly I’m going to lie. That feels unethical to me, but what the bloody hell else am I supposed to do? I know that I am far less likely to feel sleepy than 99% of people, and even if I do feel immensely sleepy I just cannot go to sleep unless I am lying in a bed in the correct surroundings, so this test while applicable to the general population is inapplicable to me. On the other hand this means I have to mislead a doctor which again, I’ve never actually done before. agghghghhghghghghghhgghhghg! ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/122 "2013-01-30T03:19:09Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Oh, and to ask a question legitimately - if I relapse, what’s the best complaint to fake to get delicious opioids? I have no idea how to fake an injury - the one time I went to an A&E (as they call them this side of the pond) it was for “dihydrocodeine withdrawal” (which was entirely correct btw) and that experience didn’t go well for anyone. Found it bizarre I was treated as if I was making it up… surely a dishonest drug seeker would pretend to have something else… but er, yeah, in future if that does happen I promise to be completely dishonest and do my best to get loads of drugs, so what’s the method? The weirdest thing is in that thread a load of them **are** drug seekers (obviously) yet are still being given things by the docs. This is not the place to ask about this as it’s against the rules. Please don’t ask about this or encourage discussion about it again. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/123 "2013-01-30T03:50:56Z")
I don’t understand why it is against the rules. It’s not actually against the law in the US, you know, unless the laws there are even more restrictive than I think. It’s also quite obviously asked tongue in cheek. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/124 "2013-01-30T03:54:26Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > The canonical answer to your question can be found on [Craiglist](http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/301345524.html). That article really told me nothing, just some things NOT to do, not what to do. I’ve heard it said before no doctor wants to have his name on record as treating an epileptic before they seize, so epilepsy is a good lie to tell to make sure you aren’t left high and dry(if you claim you feel a an attack is coming on). ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/125 "2013-01-30T04:04:54Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I don’t understand why it is against the rules. It’s not actually against the law in the US, you know, unless the laws there are even more restrictive than I think. It’s also quite obviously asked tongue in cheek. Section 843 of the [Controlled Substances Act](http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/21usc/index.html)states: > [@](#): > > It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally – > > (3) to acquire or obtain possession of a controlled substance by misrepresentation, fraud, forgery, deception, or subterfuge I’ve called police on several patients for same and seen them arrested. Whether it is tongue in cheek or not, I don’t appreciate you asking how to deceive my colleagues and I don’t expect that you really thought I’d answer that anyway. So please come back if you have a legitimate question for me. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/126 "2013-01-30T04:08:14Z")
> [@grude](#): > > That article really told me nothing, just some things NOT to do, not what to do. > > I’ve heard it said before no doctor wants to have his name on record as treating an epileptic before they seize, so epilepsy is a good lie to tell to make sure you aren’t left high and dry(if you claim you feel a an attack is coming on). I’m not really sure what good this would do unless you are really jonesing for some Dilantin or Depakote. It sure as hell isn’t going to get you any pain killers. Please see my above post, when come back bring legitimate question. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/127 "2013-01-30T04:14:32Z")
**Simple Linctus** : Per **USCDiver** ’s cite, faking symptoms to scam drugs is illegal in the United States. It is against the terms of the [registration agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650726) you accepted when you joined: > [@](#): > > You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use the SDMB to post any material that you know or should know is false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person’s privacy, or in violation of U.S. law. You agree not to post material that in our opinion encourages activity that is illegal in the U.S. Don’t do this again. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/128 "2013-01-30T04:22:34Z")
Can I infer from your username that you work with the EM:RAP folks? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/129 "2013-01-30T04:48:58Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Can I infer from your username that you work with the EM:RAP folks? Nope, my user name refers to USC-East (aka South Carolina), my alma mater. But I’m familiar with those guys. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/130 "2013-01-30T04:53:42Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I’m not really sure what good this would do unless you are really jonesing for some Dilantin or Depakote. It sure as hell isn’t going to get you any pain killers. Please see my above post, when come back bring legitimate question. It had been in the context of a pain patient who also had epilepsy, they said while others wanting meds might be ignored they would mention how it was stressing them and they felt a tonic clonic coming on which was the magic words not to be denied the narcotics. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/131 "2013-01-30T05:00:59Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Section 843 of the [Controlled Substances Act](http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/21usc/index.html)states: > I’ve called police on several patients for same and seen them arrested. > > Whether it is tongue in cheek or not, I don’t appreciate you asking how to deceive my colleagues and I don’t expect that you really thought I’d answer that anyway. So please come back if you have a legitimate question for me. Wow, fair point. Didn’t realise the CSA was so extensive. Anyway, howzabout sleep study stuff, which is far more important to me anyway?\* I cannot believe that’ll be illegal in America given no one enjoys it and therefore puritains are ok but you never know… \*And is not really scamming, after all I’m not after it for jollies - just to get what I blatantly need given NHS guidelines. Heck, in the US I have no doubt whatsoever I could just pay for the darn thing, it’s just that over here you have to beg for any interesting treatment. Well, or pay for it, but if I wanted to pay for medical procedures I’d move to the US! Hell I’d be fine just with a CPAP machine, screw the sleep study. I’m sure I can work out how to set it myself… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/132 "2013-01-30T08:27:35Z")
Here’s a question from way back early in this thread . . . > [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Do you ever think to yourself, “Damn, this person is so horribly messed up they might be better off dying”? Unless I just missed it, I didn’t see an answer on this. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/133 "2013-01-30T09:33:56Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Do you ever think to yourself, “Damn, this person is so horribly messed up they might be better off dying”? Oops, sorry I missed this one back in the day. Yep, sometimes in the setting of a bad head injury or big stroke, but more often in an old, bedridden demented patient who the family just can’t let go peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/134 "2013-01-30T13:50:14Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > … > Oh, and to ask a question legitimately - if I relapse, what’s the best complaint to fake to get delicious opioids?.. From my own experience: be a fat middle-aged female from out of town, complaining of a probable broken elbow, and wait patiently while they triage other patients at a higher priority. And don’t ask for the Good Stuff. The elbow: X-rays said “not broken”. Then they handed me a scrip for Vicodin and sent me on my way. :rolleyes: If you can’t manage the FMAFFOOT, I got nothin’. (BTW, the elbow WAS in fact broken, as demonstrated by a repeat X-ray 2 weeks later after I got home). I would assume that an ER wouldn’t treat withdrawal as a reason to dispense the nice meds, since it’s not (I think) a life-threatening situation. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/135 "2013-01-30T14:12:12Z")
You mentioned stand-alone ERs quite a while ago… CMC Steele Creek? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/136 "2013-01-30T14:51:58Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Wow, fair point. Didn’t realise the CSA was so extensive. Anyway, howzabout sleep study stuff, which is far more important to me anyway?\* I cannot believe that’ll be illegal in America given no one enjoys it and therefore puritains are ok but you never know… It’s illegal to obtain controlled substances under false pretenses in the UK, too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/137 "2013-01-30T15:55:51Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > You mentioned stand-alone ERs quite a while ago… CMC Steele Creek? Nope, further up the road a bit. Do you work there? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/138 "2013-01-30T16:04:33Z")
I am hoping it’s not too late to squeeze in a question that is always on my mind after visiting my PCP. In truth I have no idea how doctors ever successfully diagnos any thing. As everything seems to be tangentially related to a thousand other things. I seem to always be telling my Dr everything I can think of that might be a factor. As I am not a medico, I often leave wondering if she thinks I’m mad. Environmental changes in my home, other odd things I’ve noticed but honestly have no idea if they are important or not, I spill it all. What do doctors think of people like this I wonder? I think I do it because medicine is mostly a mystery to me, especially diagnostics. How are they ever sure? And, just for good measure a second question. After being released from hospital after a wicked experience with Hypertension Urgency, I was seeing my PCP every week or so as they tweaked the meds dose. So, of course, I had charted all my twice daily bps and always brought them in for her. Unexpectedly, she was over the moon about this, telling me several times this was very, very helpful to her and the specialist who had treated me in hospital and continued to consult on the case. After I left I thought, what would she be using to judge my condition if I hadn’t charted them? Just the bps taken in her office? That seems woefully inadequate for treating something like Hype. Urg. Medicine seems more magic than art to people like me! ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/139 "2013-01-30T16:53:54Z")
I don’t work for CMC, but I used to live near there, and know someone who had a terrible experience there. It was one of those “I don’t feel so good. Can you take me to the hospital?” kind of things, so I witnessed a fair bit of what happened. Without going into too much detail - if someone shows up at your triage desk with chest pain with radiating arm pain, and shortness of breath, you probably have a well-rehearsed STEMI protocol involving things like giving the poor sap aspirin, multiple IV access, EKG, etc. If they need angioplasty, time is critical, no? This place, not so much. IIRC, he got an aspirin and morphine, but no IV. An hour or so later, they did a CT to rule out a triple-A. Their family member arrives and raises hell and arranges to have him transported to another (non-CMC) hospital. On the way out, a nurse hands over a bag of heparin and says “The doctor says he should get this.” When he got to the other hospital, he got the right workup, indicating angina. Two days later, angio was scheduled and he’s been fine ever since, despite the efforts of the “toy hospital” as he now refers to Steele Creek. After all that - a question: How often do you encounter people where previous assessments and/or treatments at your or some other facility were bungled? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312/140 "2013-01-30T17:14:54Z")
CMC, STEMI, TRIPLE A ! Say what now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-er-doctor/516312.md?page=8)