# Ask the Finn **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 23, 2008, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815 "2008-09-23T10:26:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/81 "2008-09-25T14:56:11Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > And it’s sow-na, not saw-na. But that’s a whole different thread 😃 Shouldn’t be a whole thread, there’s nothing more to it than that. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/82 "2008-09-25T15:13:25Z")
> [@BumBoat\_Magdalena](#): > > Are you possibly thinking of a word that sounds like ‘varovosty’ (I’m likely way off there)? I’ve heard that word often. I always thought it was a curse word, though never asked. I never heard the word myself. My mom joked about it to me once a long time ago. ‘Turk speaks Finnish to his parents. The only word I can make out is [vatamaste/vashetme/???], and it means […].’ It wasn’t a curse word though. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/83 "2008-09-27T11:52:56Z")
> [@vifslan](#): > > One last thing, just so no one has to ask - no Swedish speaker in Finland would ever dream about supporting Tre Kronor in ice hockey. No way, not ever. I’m a Finnish-speaking Finn and I always support Tre Kronor in ice hockey. Makes my hockey-fiend friends grind their teeth. Then, I’m a stupenduously atypical Finnish man. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/84 "2008-09-27T12:04:57Z")
> [@sjc](#): > > They say that Estonians have an easier time understanding Finnish than vice-versa, though I couldn’t say why (maybe even just because of Finnish television). I find that I can pick out quite a few words when I’ve had occasion to hear Finnish in movies and such. A huge factor in explaining sub-40yo Finns’ English skills is the standard practice of Finnish TV to subtitle everything: the original English dialogue is what you hear while reading it in Finnish, be it Sex in the City or Armageddon that you’re watching (American entertainment is prevalent in Finland). Finnish school system has little to do with it, apart from reinforcing the idea that to be at all wordly or savvy you _need to_ learn English. The average Finnish Finn speaks and reads way-way better English than Swedish, an official language that is mandatory for everyone to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/85 "2008-09-27T19:51:57Z")
How do you turn out so many good rally drivers? Do young people race their cars around unpaved roads for fun? Do you see tractors powersliding through the backcountry? Also, how big a celebrity is Jari Litmanen? He was one of my heroes as a child- I adopted Ajax as my football team because none of the local ones were any good, where he was practically football Jesus for a while- but I always got the impression from interviews that he seemed to be more or less a “normal guy” in Finland. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/86 "2008-09-27T23:19:28Z")
Not a question, but a request: Do any of you have a recipe you could post for that flat rye bread? (The kind you store threaded on a pole in the rafters.) I looooove that stuff (when it’s fresh), but have never seen it in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/87 "2008-09-28T07:38:00Z")
Rally drivers? The number of top-notch drivers coming from tiny Finland has perplexed foreigners for decades. I’m not sure there is an answer, other than success breeds success. Also, once you leave the bigger cities (I haven’t), Finland is awash with meandering gravel roads through sparsely inhabited woodland where A) the opportunity to have a go at rallying (legal or not) are great and B) there’s very little else to do. Just as with Jamaica and sprinters, the few international superstars with their millions serve to keep the scores of young 'uns trying to make it. Jari Litmanen is a household name. He’s played abroad long enough and is getting old enough that his star power has waned, I guess (I don’t follow soccer). Rye bread is my favourite, too - the darker and coarser, the better! I’m not much of a baker, but my impression is that only highly skilled conoisseurs even attempt to make it - my grandmother (a super-cook who learned her craft in the '20’s) baked it, and she’s the only one in my extended family who did. Of course, Finnish supermarkets are loaded with bakery-made rye breads, so there’s little incentive to make the stuff nowadays. I will look up on making rye bread and post here unless someone more knowledgeable shows up. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/88 "2008-09-28T08:15:56Z")
> [@Torpor\_Beast](#): > > Me menemme Doot doo de doo-doot! Genealogical question! My great-grandmother’s maiden name was Backmann and she was born in Mustasaari, near Vaasa. Am I a son of the duckpond? ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/89 "2008-09-28T09:12:15Z")
Mustasaari is where blue-collared, hard-working ordinary country folk speak (only) Swedish. I think the duckpond is a more southern, much more urban phenomena (the west coast of Finland has had a Swedish-based habitation since the 13th century or so. It really is like going abroad to a southern clown like me.) ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/90 "2008-09-28T09:36:53Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Mustasaari is where blue-collared, hard-working ordinary country folk speak (only) Swedish. I’ll gladly take that. She married my Swedish great-granddad so I figured she had to have been a Swedish-speaking Finn. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/91 "2008-09-28T13:51:17Z")
> [@LilyoftheValley](#): > > Have you been to Muminvärlden (Muumimaailma)? My daughter is begging me to go. _bump_ Anyone? > [@vifslan](#): > > Entering the discussion from an outside-of Helsinki perspective, I’ll add that there’s a Swedish-speaking middle and working class too (still well-represented in the shipping and boat-building trades), as well as a sizable rural community, and that **the dulcet Moomintroll tones most people associate with Swedish-speaking Finns is in fact the accent of the well-bred and de facto bilingual Helsinki elite** (which for someone from the boonies barely counts as real Swedish-speakers anyway). [bolding mine] Vid min svans! Well, I learned something new today. ---
**Author:** ![auRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@auRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auRa)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/92 "2008-09-28T17:22:49Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Jari Litmanen is a household name. He’s played abroad long enough and is getting old enough that his star power has waned, I guess (I don’t follow soccer). Right now the biggest problem with Litmanen is probably that he hasn’t really had very good seasons the past few years because he keeps getting injured all the time…sometimes even in fairly ridiculous ways. For example, in June 2006 he sustained an eye injury when the cap of a lemonade bottle hit him in the eye; in April 2007 he fell down the stairs and hurt his neck and back; in April 2008 he got hit in the year by a ball during a Fulham training session and had to take a week off. When he’s in top form he’s a brilliant player, but unfortunately he hasn’t really been in top form for a while. **Lilyofthevalley** , I personally haven’t been to Muumimaailma, but it’s quite popular among families with small children. I’ve heard mostly positive things about it, although the activities are apparently mostly geared towards fairly young children. How old is your daughter? I have a friend who is a chef and loves to bake; I’ll ask him for a rye bread recipe and post it here as soon as I get an answer. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/93 "2008-09-28T18:16:49Z")
Did you study the Kalevala in school? Are you aware of its influence on Lord of the Rings? Can you read Quenya? Brian ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/94 "2008-09-29T07:46:26Z")
The Kalevala was required reading at some point in my school, but I don’t know if anyone actually read it (I didn’t, and I was a history/fantasy buff). We are well aware of Tolkien’s interest in Finnish mythology and Kalevala and it’s influence on the man’s work. You could post some Quenya here and see if we can read it. Highly unlikely. I can’t read any of the real languages closely related to Finnish, either. ---
**Author:** ![Torpor\_Beast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@Torpor\_Beast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torpor_Beast)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/95 "2008-09-29T11:25:52Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Did you study the Kalevala in school? Are you aware of its influence on Lord of the Rings? Can you read Quenya? > > Brian I think we covered Kalevala only superficially when I was in school. But I do remember reading Catcher in the Rye and Brave New World. :o Tolkien’s Quenya doesn’t resemble Finnish that much. I think he was mainly influenced by the structure of the language and not vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![auRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@auRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auRa)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/96 "2008-09-29T12:28:34Z")
We studied the Kalevala’s main stories in school, but I wasn’t part of the regular Finnish public school system so our lesson plans were probably a bit different. I think most Finns would have a very basic grasp of the main stories (Väinämöinen and his obsession with young women, maybe Lemminkäinen and his ill-fated wooing) but mostly what’s covered in schools is the _method_ by which the stories were gathered and adapted by Lönnrot. Like **Torpor Beast** said, Quenya doesn’t really borrow any vocab from Finnish. It’s mostly the language structure, probably things such as adding the indicator of the grammatic case to the end of the word (I think, I really haven’t taken such a close look at Tolkien’s languages). ---
**Author:** ![vifslan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f4b2a3/32.png) [@vifslan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vifslan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/97 "2008-09-29T12:44:18Z")
We did a bit of [Runeberg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Ludvig_Runeberg) and [Topelius](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topelius), possibly because they were local lads. But my grandmothers, both of whom came from South Finland, had to memorise the poems out of Tales of Ensign Ståhl when they went to school in the first decades of the 20th C, so perhaps it’s a duck pond thing. I think the Kalevala officially came up in the history classes in high school, but I’d read enough paraphrased versions on my own by then to be familiar with the characters. Also, a lot of homes in the late seventies and through the eighties had a few collector’s plates with Kalevala motifs, and I think that must have been my first contact with the epic as soon as I was tall enough to see things above adult waist level. Dunno how the Finnish-speaking Dopers see it, but the original poems aren’t that easy to get into, and not what you’d call child-friendly. But if the subject interests you and you ever visit Finland, Mauri Kunnas’s [The Canine Kalevala](http://www.maurikunnas.net/mauri_kunnas/teokset/translations/en_GB/the_canine_kalevala/) is the must-have souvenir. I can read and understand a bit of Quenya, but that’s because I’m a Tolkien fan. As far as I remember, he liked the ratio of vowels to consonants and borrowed that together with sound and structure, but the grammar is AFAIK of his own devising. There are a few occasional words in Quenya that actually have a meaning in Finnish, though not exactly the same thing. For example, the Quenya word for fall or falling is _lanta_, which in Finnish means animal droppings. ---
**Author:** ![Zamander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/2acd7d/32.png) [@Zamander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zamander)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/98 "2008-09-29T21:25:50Z")
We had to study the Kalevala more thoroughly in high school. But for the most part, it was a modernized language version of it. Lönnrot’s part in finnish culture was studied both in history and the finnish language, as Lönnrot invented a whole lot of words for the finnish language. For me, the language of Kalevala was never that difficult to read. Of course there are many words which one just can’t recognize, but for the most part the rhymes are constructed in such a way that the meaning can be grasped quite easily. Folks nowadays might call it redundant, but part of the style is to describe some action or description with one line and then say it again with different words. In some parts this might go on for several lines. As for Tolkien, although I’m a big fan of his (we share a birthday :)), I’ve never bothered to learn any elvish. But it was a great moment when I recognized that the basic plot points of Narn i Hin Hurin, or the tale of Turin Turambar in the Silmarillion, are the same as the story of Kullervo in the Kalevala. There are some scenes that are almost identical. The part about the sister and the sword for example. ---
**Author:** ![Zamander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/2acd7d/32.png) [@Zamander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zamander)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/99 "2008-09-29T21:28:39Z")
> [@vifslan](#): > > We did a bit of [Runeberg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Ludvig_Runeberg) and [Topelius](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topelius), possibly because they were local lads. But my grandmothers, both of whom came from South Finland, had to memorise the poems out of Tales of Ensign Ståhl when they went to school in the first decades of the 20th C, so perhaps it’s a duck pond thing. We did some orations from Ensign Ståhl in our high school, but I think it was more to do with our teacher trying different stuff with us than anything to do with the duck pond. It was a finnish language high school after all. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815/100 "2008-09-29T23:06:11Z")
Are the Aland Islanders Finns? Also, you don’t eat that horrible Swedish lutefisk, do you? Is Finnish vodka better than Russian? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-finn/464815.md?page=6)