# Ask the \[former\] acidhead\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943 "2009-02-15T12:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/21 "2009-02-15T22:46:31Z")
Do you think you might have experienced any lasting physical effects? I took “heroic doses” of LSD (liquid, min 3 drops, max 10+) every three days or so from 1989 until 1998, and although I only had one markedly unpleasant experience, I sometimes wonder if my [Raynaud’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynaud's_disease) was caused (or just exacerbated) by my heavy LSD use, and if folks who’ve used in similar quantities have noticed anything like this. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/22 "2009-02-15T23:41:41Z")
> [@sulawesi](#): > > Did you ever have any run-ins with the police? How did that go? I’ve had my share, but never, fortunately, while I was under the influence. Such an encounter couldn’t possibly have ended well. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/23 "2009-02-16T00:37:51Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Are any of those drugs addictive? Do you think you were addicted to them? They’re not addictive in any clinical sense, i.e. there’s no withdrawal or craving involved. The experience was so gratifying to me as I was then, so overwhelmingly engrossing and profound, that the non-psychedelically-informed universe seemed not only boring but trivial, and I wanted to be in that state of awareness as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/24 "2009-02-16T02:21:27Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Do you think you might have experienced any lasting physical effects? > > I took “heroic doses” of LSD (liquid, min 3 drops, max 10+) every three days or so from 1989 until 1998, and although I only had one markedly unpleasant experience, I sometimes wonder if my [Raynaud’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynaud's_disease) was caused (or just exacerbated) by my heavy LSD use, and if folks who’ve used in similar quantities have noticed anything like this. I haven’t, no; I’ve read about a condition some people have reported (that might or might not be something real with a physical basis), called Persistent Hallucinogen-Related Perceptual Disorder or something like that (basically a sort of wiggliness in one’s peripheral vision, if I understand it right), but my information on this is quite sketchy. ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/25 "2009-02-16T03:26:49Z")
Is DMT the very short but full awesome trip I’ve heard it is? I don’t do anything like that anymore (kids, back in school, regular responsibilities) but I used to play around in college. I honestly can’t imagine functioning on a day to day basis with acid as a part of my regular life. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/26 "2009-02-16T03:35:34Z")
Without _endorsing_ the use of any illegal drugs, what have you observed about the influence of greater emotional context (i.e. what’s going on in the person’s life) for acute LSD and psilocybin use from a psychonautic perspective? Also, could you comment on the CEV/OEV distinction re your personal experience? > [@DLuxN8R-13](#): > > After a couple of fairly unpleasant intervals I decided that it just wasn’t what it used to be anymore. You might say I just lost interest, but with reinforcements. Would you say that was pretty common in your circle? We in the DXM community call that “losing the magic”, and it definitely happened to me re DXM and nitrous a couple of years back, leading to me stopping all usage completely. > [@DLuxN8R-13](#): > > It’s not only damned dangerous, it’s also a pretty nasty experience subjectively. J-Weed and belladonna (before I was hip to the fact that they and related botanicals share the same active principals) were the only substances to ever make me hallucinate in the usual sense of that word – experience sights and sounds with no basis in the external world, which was experienced as real at the time. The alkaloids found in JW, datura, nightshade, mandrake and henbane – scopalamine, hyoscamine and atropine – aren’t psych’s; they are poisons which cause a vivid state of delirium. You don’t remember half the experience, but what you do recall is enough to convince you it was …very strange. People who are foolish enough to do this shit can die of the toxic effects themselves, or from injuries sustained acting on their visions. And after it’s all over, you’re generally sick, weak, dizzy, burningly thirsty and blurry-eyed for a few days afterward. > > Terrible, terrible shit, that. I’ve heard that the key difference between datura (same plant as jimson weed, isn’t it, just a more technical name?)/nightshade/belladonna/etc. and other psychedelics like LSD/psilocybin is that the former category leave you with no ability to distinguish reality from the effects of the drug. Just to clarify what you said here, would you say that was true for you? Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/27 "2009-02-16T22:17:40Z")
> [@ShelliBean](#): > > Is DMT the very short but full awesome trip I’ve heard it is? Most assuredly, yes. One deep drag off a pipe (two, _if_ you’re a hardhead) and you are suddenly and utterly Somewhere Else Entirely. A beautiful, aweful, chaotic, hilarious, welcoming, and _limitless_ spiderweb realm in which you’re totally lost, but totally unafraid. Without your I, but with your eyes, wide open and that means all seven hundred eighty eight thousand and nine of them. Say howdy to the Singing Jeweled Skulls, the Beadwork Serpent Gods Who Laugh And Laugh And Laugh, (they have horns and their skin is green and black living malachite swirls that’s juicy like a cactus) and our old buddy The Shouting Pumpkin at the nucleus of Imagination (the first time we met he became My Mirror-Mommy-and-Mojo-Holy Guardian Angel without so much as a by-your-leave), and how’s about that choir of a zillion seahorses as big as honeybees, all in their fractal tuxedos? The ones with the wee little perfectly detailed miniature musical instruments, who sing you quantum physics lessons in limerick form? Forty-five minutes later you’re back on the bed or cushiony floor where you were when you took that toke (lying down, if you have any sense at all) with a whole Alexandria library full of vacation snapshots to look at in your echoey head. Eventually you go to sleep, just like you hadn’t had that happen to you. As you might’ve guessed, DMT is one of those exceptions I mentioned having room for in my OP. I’ll smoke some of that shit any time I get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Karyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/fbc32d/32.png) [@Karyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karyn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/28 "2009-02-16T22:27:22Z")
Another me too… I haven’t had any desire to do psychedelics in years but I’d never turn down that one. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/29 "2009-02-18T15:36:14Z")
> [@DLuxN8R-13](#): > > Most assuredly, yes. One deep drag off a pipe (two, _if_ you’re a hardhead) and you are suddenly and utterly Somewhere Else Entirely. A beautiful, aweful, chaotic, hilarious, welcoming, and _limitless_ spiderweb realm in which you’re totally lost, but totally unafraid. Without your I, but with your eyes, wide open and that means all seven hundred eighty eight thousand and nine of them. Say howdy to the Singing Jeweled Skulls, the Beadwork Serpent Gods Who Laugh And Laugh And Laugh, (they have horns and their skin is green and black living malachite swirls that’s juicy like a cactus) and our old buddy The Shouting Pumpkin at the nucleus of Imagination (the first time we met he became My Mirror-Mommy-and-Mojo-Holy Guardian Angel without so much as a by-your-leave), and how’s about that choir of a zillion seahorses as big as honeybees, all in their fractal tuxedos? The ones with the wee little perfectly detailed miniature musical instruments, who sing you quantum physics lessons in limerick form? > > Forty-five minutes later you’re back on the bed or cushiony floor where you were when you took that toke (lying down, if you have any sense at all) with a whole Alexandria library full of vacation snapshots to look at in your echoey head. Eventually you go to sleep, just like you hadn’t had that happen to you. > > As you might’ve guessed, DMT is one of those exceptions I mentioned having room for in my OP. I’ll smoke some of that shit any time I get a chance. So, are you actually insensible to external reality during that period? Like, if there was a fire, would someone have to physically pick you up and carry you outside? ---
**Author:** ![TheFaerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TheFaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFaerie)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/30 "2009-02-18T18:48:58Z")
> [@DLuxN8R-13](#): > > I haven’t, no; I’ve read about a condition some people have reported (that might or might not be something real with a physical basis), called Persistent Hallucinogen-Related Perceptual Disorder or something like that (basically a sort of wiggliness in one’s peripheral vision, if I understand it right), but my information on this is quite sketchy. My husband spent much of his youth (1964ish to mid 70’s) experimenting with hallucinogens and says that he experiences this phenom. He says it’s like watching something breathing, for example if he looks at the ceiling it can appear like it is moving slightly back and forth. He doesn’t consider his youth to have been wasted, and he grew up to be a professional, functional, sucessful adult. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/31 "2009-02-19T10:24:23Z")
Huh. I’ve noticed that with ceiling patterns and such. Never connected it to my past drug use, especially since I haven’t dabbled in pure psychedelics much, but who knows? If it’s the same thing, it’s actually kind of cool. It’s like a free trip that you can end at any moment just by looking away from the ceiling. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![New\_Beginning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@New\_Beginning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Beginning)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/32 "2009-02-19T14:19:31Z")
FYI, for more info on HPPD (as it’s commonly known), see [Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_Persisting_Perception_Disorder) . For what it’s worth, I experienced mild residual ‘breathing’ for about a month after I first ate some psilocybin mushrooms, albeit mostly if I’d smoke pot. So I can see how it might become permanent for heavy users… ---
**Author:** ![Karyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/fbc32d/32.png) [@Karyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karyn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/33 "2009-02-19T14:20:32Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > So, are you actually insensible to external reality during that period? Like, if there was a fire, would someone have to physically pick you up and carry you outside? Speaking only for myself - yeah, probably, or at least pull me out with them. Nothing like that ever happened so I’m not sure if something could shock you out of it. It’s not really like LSD where visuals are morphs of what is really there. His description matches my experience - it’s like being in a whole other place, and what you see and hear is not related to anything going on around you. The concept of ‘you’ is very hard to hang on to and scares the shit out of some people as it hits. What you see when you do it is different for everyone but it’s always…I can’t even think of a word for it. It’s weirdly wonderful and strange beyond anything you can imagine, peopled with odd creatures that interact with you and take you places. I can’t remember who said it and I’m paraphrasing, but the quote was something like “If LSD is like taking a long strange journey, DMT is like getting shot out of a cannon.” ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Black\_Sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Sunshine)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/34 "2009-02-19T15:30:03Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Huh. I’ve noticed that with ceiling patterns and such. Never connected it to my past drug use, especially since I haven’t dabbled in pure psychedelics much, but who knows? > > If it’s the same thing, it’s actually kind of cool. It’s like a free trip that you can end at any moment just by looking away from the ceiling. > > Hostile Dialect, > Hostile Dialect, Narcissist I get that, too, mostly when I have my contacts out. My bathroom door “breathes” sometimes. FWIW, I’ve never done hallucinogenics (yet). ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/35 "2009-02-19T16:01:28Z")
> [@Karyn](#): > > Speaking only for myself - yeah, probably, or at least pull me out with them. Nothing like that ever happened so I’m not sure if something could shock you out of it. It’s not really like LSD where visuals are morphs of what is really there. His description matches my experience - it’s like being in a whole other place, and what you see and hear is not related to anything going on around you. The concept of ‘you’ is very hard to hang on to and scares the shit out of some people as it hits. I does seem kind of scary to be that out of it. I guess you would absolutely want to have a “sitter” with you. From what I’ve heard, it sounds like salvia is somewhat similar, but much shorter-lasting…? ---
**Author:** ![Karyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/fbc32d/32.png) [@Karyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karyn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/36 "2009-02-19T16:06:15Z")
I’ve never done it alone, and I don’t know anyone that did it at all without being very used to other psychedelics already and being warned of how intense it’s going to be. I’ve never done salvia because it wasn’t common when I was still doing drugs and from what I hear it’s kind of a weird high but I don’t know what the effects are at all. I’ve heard that it’s similar to DMT but I’m past the point of trying things just to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce73a5/32.png) [@Black\_Sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Sunshine)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/37 "2009-02-19T17:56:30Z")
I have a question, but it might be too vague to get a good answer. What sorts of things, if any, can you really do to avoid a “bad trip?” How much control over this do you have? Do you have more control with lighter drugs? I’d really like to try some form of hallucinogen at some point in the near future. I’m what most people would describe as a “sunny” person. I don’t have any issues with depression or paranoia, etc., nor have I had any really traumatic events (so far) in my life. What I _do_ have is a very active imagination, and the tendency to spook myself out if I get to thinking too much about freaky stuff. I guess I’m just concerned that instead of happy talking flowers, I’d get the floating head of death and spend the whole time pissing myself. Any advice, or is it something you can’t really know will happen until it’s happened? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/38 "2009-02-19T21:25:34Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > From what I’ve heard, it sounds like salvia is somewhat similar, but much shorter-lasting…? Nope. IME, salvia is either mind-blowing terror or a vague, persistent sense that everyone in the room is in on some joke that you’re not and they’re laughing on the inside at your expense. No mystical creatures, no cannon, nothing even mildly pleasant. I’ve only ever had one worthwile salvia trip (my first), and there was nothing pleasant about that, either. If it hits you full steam, yeah, there is a complete disconnection from the reality around you for about 15 minutes. Most of the time, though, you’ll just be in the same place as before, except you’re freaking out about it. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/39 "2009-02-19T22:09:54Z")
I posted my impression of salvia in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=441681). Spake I: > [@VarlosZ](#): > > It was interesting, and not specifically unpleasant, but there’s really no way at all you could describe it as “fun.” Unlike most of the LSD, mushrooms, pot, etc., salvia greatly impairs one’s motor control and coordination – you ought to smoke it while sitting on the floor, because there’s a 50/50 chance you will fall over involuntarily before you sober up. It also led to the sensation of being uncomfortably warm, so use it in a cool room. > > More interestingly, it led to . . . let’s call them “thought hallucinations.” That is, I would inexplicably think that absurd things were true – in particular, I’d hallucinate rules. For instance, I might suddenly and sincerely believe that I was not allowed to move past the right edge of my desk. Questions regarding the nature and origin of these rules would not occur to me. Or at least not right away. > > Also, I once used salvia in the middle of an acid trip while we were watching Star Wars. There is no way I could begin to describe that experience, except to say that, for 20 minutes, I **was** Star Wars. (That’s 20 objective minutes, mind you. Subjectively, it was a matter of hours or weeks or seconds.) > > I’ve still got some, I guess, sitting in a drawer seven or eight years after I first acquired it. This drug has no addiction potential whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943/40 "2009-02-19T23:24:39Z")
Interesting. It often led to the sensation of being uncomfortably cold for me. The “thought hallucinations” thing definitely resonated with me, although mine had more to do with the (in)famous “salvia space”–the idea that: 1. Salvia intoxication is inherently undesirable 2. Salvia intoxication is caused by being in a certain space, not by having smoked salvia 3. Leaving the space will result in no longer being intoxicated 4. Therefore, one’s greatest goal in life is to get outside of the space. The space can be a room, a house, or whatever, but IME is usually a bit smaller than a spacious living room. Thankfully, the stuff usually wears off before you wander too far from where you were, but I could easily see the “salvia space” hallucination leading to problems (i.e., stumbling out of the house, walking into someone else’s house and cowering on their couch from terrors unseen). The first time I realized that salvia made me try to stop being intoxicated by salvia was the last time I tried the stuff. Anything that’s so unpleasant that the side effects include doing strange things to try to get _off_ the drug is not worth it to me. Thank Og it’s only 15 minutes. Can you imagine spending 48 hours on datura just trying wacky ways to come down from the trip? Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-former-acidhead/485943.md?page=3)