Only one of those things is in Genesis, to start with. And I don’t really want to hijack the OP’s thread. I’m just on my soapbox again that Christian =! fundamentalist/literalist and that there is a lot of real estate between a young earth creationist and an skeptical humanist.
The sorriest thing about the site is the reliance on particular gaps in knowledge, such as the supposedly fixed absence of observation of monopoles.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t there recently been research supporting the existence of monopoles, at least indirectly?
They may have to eat some crow on this one, and very soon.
- Og
Cyningablod, I too am a recovering fundie. I have been out of it for about 25 years (wow! just realized that), and like you I could write a book about it. In fact, since I’ve already written a lot of books, I’ve seriously considered writing this one–the problem is that it would hurt some people, including my parents. I don’t have any questions for you on this subject because my questions would not be about evolution. Just wanted to say I know where you’re coming from and that I, too, am available to answer questions about leaving fundamentalism.
Part of being a fundamentalist is that you are told–brainwashed?–that no, this is actually not possible. It took me a long time to realize that not all Christians were like the judgmental, literalist, separationist ones I was forced to associate with.
Cyningablod, I don’t have any questions since you explained everything so well in your OP, but I did want to applaud you for your intelligence, curiosity outside your comfort zone, and willingness to challenge the Christian guilt cards your family, namely your mother, has played*. Even if you had retained some of your faith, you’d still be a scholar amongst men in my view. Thank you for this thread.
*It seems to me that guilt is always a last resort when someone is found to be unconvertable. “Your lack of understanding and faith hurts me” is a common tactic.
On an afterthought, I do have a question: How has the change in your beliefs affected your view of American politics? Do you sympathize with Republican faith-based policies or are you skeptical of them?
I think you missed the point. The point is that, if you give up the Genesis story because of its implausibility and conflict with modern science … then why not give up all the other beliefs like the virgin birth for the same reasons. What’s the difference?
Philip Kitcher is has a good bit on this in living with darwin.
pdts
Those are good questions, sabre, but not ones I can concisely answer in the context of this thread.
Thanks, Kapri. My question would be:
Why don’t you write the book under a pseudonym? Is there a reason that your family MUST know about everything you write?
If you’re a published author, then I would imagine that you’re a gifted writer. I think the more exodus stories we have, penned by former fundies, the better.
Feel free to hijack. Really. Apart from one or two posts I still need to address, and one line of dialogue that has continued off-thread via PM’s, I think it has run its own natural course. 
Thank you for the compliments, AF.
That’s a really good question (about politics). My political views have in fact changed considerably, as a result of the major shift in worldview.
The home I grew up in, in addition to being religiously fundamentalist, was also far right wing (not surprising, I know). Once I left the faith, I realized that a lot of the political views I had previously held, were held largely because of my religious Weltanschauung.
There seem to be two major classes of political belief that are tied to people’s personal metaphysics:
Social issues, like racial and sexual orientation equality; and
Scientific issues, such as evolution in the classroom, anthropogenic climate change, etc.
Because of my current secular humanist ideals, I have moved far to the left on a lot of these. I strongly support equal marriage rights for gays, for example, because I no longer believe it to be a “sin”. I’m FIERCELY opposed to the teaching of creationism/Intelligent Design in the classroom, etc., etc.
In my religious days, I basically held to a Pat Robertson-esque platform on these sorts of issues (I’ll always be embarrassed by that.:()
But I still lean to the right-hand side of the political spectrum on certain issues, among them gun ownership rights (Second Amendment), crime and punishment**, and immigration.
**Being an ex-drug addict as well, though, I have to say that I strongly disagree with the existing policies of sometimes punishing simple addicts as harshly as dealers and manufacturers. Addicts have a medical condition, and need medical intervention. Not jail. Note that I’m NOT saying they’re blameless, or should automaticallt get a get-out-of-jail-free card, but they shouldn’t have the book thrown at them, as they often do.
OK, with the OP’s permission, I’ll give my thoughts on this.
I wouldn’t say I’m giving up the Genesis story. I embrace it as a meaningful myth that tells us important truths about who we are as humans and our relationship to God and each other. However I don’t believe it to be a literal account of Creation. I accept that life has evolved through natural processes, although, like all natural processes, it was authored and guided by God. I think my position is close to what is called Theistic Evolution, if I understand that term correctly. And in not taking Genesis literally, I’m in good company that includes people like “Origen, St. Augustine, John Calvin, C.S. Lewis, Tim Keller, N.T. Wright, B.B. Warfield, Alister McGrath, Derek Kidner, Mark Knoll, John Stott, Teilhard de Chardin, Tremper Longman, Meredith Cline, Asa Gray, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, Pope Pius XII, Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, the entire Episcopal Church, the entire Anglican Church, and the entire Roman Catholic Church.” (cite).
I do believe in miracles, but I believe they are rare. The life of Jesus (virgin birth, death, resurrection, ascension) was a unique event in history and, being a unique case of God’s direct intervention in the world, not subject to the scientific scrutiny that an ongoing natural process like evolution is.
Incidentally, I recently discovered BioLogos which is an organization that “explores, promotes and celebrates the integration of Science and Christian faith.” They have quite a large section of their website affirming evolution from a Christian perspective with plenty of commonly asked questions. The foundation was founded by Dr. Francis Collins, who headed the Human Genome Project is is the current Director of NIH.
You have a point there. I’ve tried to write it and don’t like the tone I end up using, but maybe I’ll try again.
Cyningablod, what would you say are the most devastating contradictions and absurdities in the Bible?
- Trans Fundie Og
It appears that you were motivated by fear in your early years, was able to break away from that later, then later 'became on fire for the Lord", but then went on to cite at that time idolizing a man ‘he became my hero’.
You obviously know about the Lord Jesus, but did you ever feel you knew Lord Jesus, as you would know your own brother?
Have you ever considered that your journey away from fear about religion, to disbelieving man’s common view of Christianity is exactly the way you will come to know the Lord?
As far as absurdities go, there is a good collection of them here:
http://thebricktestament.com/
This talks about contradictions though fundies might disagree with many of them…
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
Please explain to me, why anybody would think that Genesis was EVER intended as a literal account of creation? It was an OK story for 500 BC, but surely God (who gave us brains and the ability to think) would never rquite a blind belief in such a simple story?
Why (in your opinion) do fundamentalists go through logical contortions over this (to me) very trivial matter?
If Genesis isn’t literal then lots of other parts of the Bible probably aren’t literal as well… e.g. the parting of the sea in Exodus, etc.
BTW remember:
Ex 20:8-11 - “[Work for 6 days, rest for 1]…For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”
It doesn’t say “according to the creation story God made the heavens and the earth, etc”… it talks about a literal 6 days… also if they aren’t 6 literal days then there is a weaker connection between the 6 day working week and the 6 day creation week.
What is the purpose of the creation story if it isn’t about real history? What is the point of the genealogies which mentioned random looking ages for very old people? In the NT Jesus told lots of parables but they are obviously parables since every detail in them has a purpose - they set up the story and may be part of the lesson of the parable.
The bible is the word of god and perfect.
The creation story was written before tha Age of Science, before people had any idea what the universe was all about. Would an ignorant shepherd in 500 BC know anything about stars and galaxies?