I go to MLB games occassionally. I’ve always bought from a “guy on the street.” Just whomever seems to have pretty good seats at a good price. The thing is, I always pay less than face value. These aren’t sold out games and I could buy from the window, but why wait in line just to pay more, right?
These “guys on the street” have a whole array of tickets, so I know this is what they do. It’s not just some dad with an extra ticket b/c his wife changed her mind at the last minute.
So my question is, are these really really bad scalpers, or does this business model still allow them to make a profit?
Mr. BIG TIME ticket scalper (like the one I worked for) buys a hundred tickets. Come the day of the event, he’s sold all but 20 of them. Mr. BT has already made his money and then some. So now it’s just a few hours before the event. This is when the bottom feeders (The small time scalpers) start rolling into the store wanting to buy up all our left over tickets.
The Bottom feeder bought the ticket for $5
He sells it to you for $15.
The actual value of the ticket is $20.
The trick for the bottom feeders is: How many tickets do they buy? If they buy more than they can sell; they’re screwed. Kind off like a game of spades.
Can I get really good deals from scalpers after an event has begun already?
Say I show up to an NFL game outside the stadium and wait till kick-off. Am I apt to get an excellent deal?
I’m about a 15 minute drive from the Metrodome and always wanted to drive down before the start of a Vikings game and see if I could get a sweetheart deal after kick-off. If not I’d just drive home and watch the game.
What would a $100 face value ticket eventually go for?
This is the best advice I can give to anybody. You could easily get one for $25 or so if you’re willing to wait till after kick off.
If you do it tho’, know that YOU have the upper hand. Don’t let him BS you into thinking he could still sell that ticket to some one else for a $100. Tell him what you’re willing to pay and if he tries to BS you, just say “OK thanks.” and walk away. It’s a good bet he’ll stop you and agree to the price you set.
Did Corporate Season Ticket holders ever try to unload their seats through you on consignment?
Did your employer ever get big enough to buy the extra-secret-bonus seats some venues/promoters have? Recently a local paper revealed that Verizon Amphitheater in Irvine (formerly known as Irvine Meadows) has a block of pit seats that don’t show up on any seating chart, not even Ticketmaster’s, that the venue sells directly to brokers (California’s term for scalpers that pay taxes). They call them season tickets, but they never are offered for sale to the general public.
Back in the Ticketron days (1985 or so), I was 10th in line for a Kinks concert and was offered nosebleed crap. I declined and decided to try a broker and found 14th row floor. When I picked up the tickets I noticed that the “printed” timestamp that tells when the ticket was printed was 4 days before the actual onsale. Obviously someone was payed off, but who? Who would be able to print tickets from the system 4 days before the onsale?
I once managed to get front row centre seats to a concert through the promotor - after ticketek (ticket charge) had sold out…not that this has a lot of relevance.
I “worked” for a scalper for about 6 months while having a part-time job at a retailer which had a “TicketBastard” outlet. I did good business with him since we had a series of big name concerts in the area during that time.
Back in the 1970s, a good friend of mine was the CFO for Capital Tickets, the company that was eventually bought by TicketBastard. They would print tickets to each event beforehand and hand deliver them to the various outlets. Some outlets got a prime selection, but that was because they sold the most tickets. Every outlet would get some great sets, some OK ones, some bad ones. But the place that would deal with having 300 people waiting in line overnight would get more great seats - if only because the first dozen ticket buyers would show what they got to the rest of the people in line.
The #1 outlet in Kansas City was Caper’s Corner Records, run by Ben Anser, Ed Asner’s older brother. Imagine Lou Grant and turn up the crankiness by a factor of 6. Ben would hold some tickets back, but never scalped them. He always sold them for face value. He’s just hold some for huge fans of a particular artist. My brother and I managed to buy front row seats for a Todd Rundgren concert because Ben knew that we were huge Todd Rundgren fans.
Now, it’s all about money. The people who have the most money get the best seats, not the biggest fans or the people willing to wait in line overnight.
Scalpers and Ticketmaster, between them, have pretty much ruined concerts. The front rows are filled with rich assholes, and the big fans are stuck in the middle or the back. It’s pretty much impossible for someone on stage to see anyone more than 3 rows back due to the lighting so they get less feedback from the audience, and deliver worse performances.
“The front row was nothing but industry, I swear to God!” - Madonna in Truth or Dare
This kind of crap is why I haven’t gone to a concert since 1986. When concerts were sold out before I could even get there (in the pre-internet days), it didn’t take long before my interest waned and I went on to electronic music and the net. Promoters and scalpers shot themselves in the foot and lost my business, and I’m sure that of many other people. TicketBastard had a hand in this as well, with their nonsensical ‘because we can’ fees.
What do you think of the ticket policy at Wynn’s Encore Hotel/Casino for Garth Brooks?
In case you don’t know, in order to prevent scalping of tickets, the person who buys them must state the name of the people attending, for each ticket. That name is listed next to the ticket number. When you go to the show, you have to show a picture ID and the ticket to get in. People are pissed off when, for instance, at the last minute your cousin can’t go with you, so you take your daughter - she can’t get in because, when you bought the ticket, you gave your cousin’s name and ONLY that person can use the ticket.
Garth’s tickets all cost $125 – no cheap seats, no higher price front row seats - all the same price.
Supposedly this has cut down scalping to zilch.
Oops - forgot to mention that you can return tickets prior to the show for a full refund, assuming cousin can’t make it…not sure if you are then able to re-buy it for your daughter, or if you have to stand in line for cancellations.
This kind of crap is why I tend to go to concerts by independent musicians and strive to discover artists early in their career. By the time any of them get famous, I’m on the guest list. I’ve not been to a concert that would be scalped in a decade.
Scalpers are not as big a factor outside places like NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. because in those places demand is way above supply. For example here in NC last year I got a good seat for U2 from Ticketmaster only 1 week before the show and I paid face value.
A few years back the Stones played a stadium in Montana and scalpers lost a ton of money because they didn’t realize demand was low there. They could not even give their tickets away.
It was similar when I got tickets to Nine Inch Nails’ farewell concert in Chicago last summer. The only difference is that the tickets only had my name on them and I could bring whomever I wanted with me. The only issue for scalping would be that the person would have to enter the venue with me as I had to show my credit card and ID on the way in. I imagine most ticketbrokers wouldn’t bother with that type of thing.
Why haven’t artists and concert promoters cracked down harder on scalping/reselling? Even if they are getting a cut, wouldn’t they make more just auctioning off the tickets themselves? Or, alternatively, if they hate scalping, why don’t they just require that the names be printed on the tickets?
How did you find out about where and when tickets were going to be sold?
How did you set your pricing? By that, I mean how do you determine the maximum amount you could charge?
What kinds of “shady” things did you have to do? How do you go about bribing someone?
Because the bands don’t book the venue or promote the show. That is the job of the promoter. The band and management announce tour plans and promoters rent the venues and pay the band’s fee. Ticketing is the responsibility of the promoter and/or the venue.
Some bands, like Pearl Jam, try to get around the system, but they wind up playing second-choice venues, as all the prime ones have exclusive contracts with specific promoters and/or Ticketmaster.
Their only other choice is to become their own promoters, but that requires a huge outlay of cash. My friend worked in the business when the Grateful Dead were a going concern. They wanted to provide books of tickets for every show on the tour to their legendary fans. The Dead had to purchase every seat in every venue from every promoter in every city, assemble books of tickets, and sell the remainder back to the promoters. In contrast to their appearance, she said they were the most professional group of people she ever worked with.
Here’s the weird thing. If it weren’t for Ticketmaster, most people wouldn’t be able to afford to go to shows at all. Here’s how the logic works. Since people are willing to pay 3X the price of a ticket, thus creating the scalping industry, then Ticketmaster could just up the price of all the tickets and pocket that money themselves, putting the scalpers right out of business. The artists would be furious because it means only the rich could afford tickets, so almost nobody would ever sell out, but it would still mean more dollars total for the venue and Ticketmaster. 1000 seats at $25 is less than 500 seats at $75, but half-empty concerts are the kiss of death to an artist, so they want it priced so it will sell out, even if it means less $$ total. Looking at things from a free market perspective, Ticketmaster is actually selling their goods at well under market value. Scalpers are buying those tickets and charging what the market will bear, which is a hell of a lot more. The low price Ticketmaster charges(never thought I’d type that phrase) makes the event affordable for fans who get lucky, pre-order, or are willing to take worse seats. It also keeps it somewhat available to the casual concert goer. Now the casual concert goer will almost never get the primo seats, but that’s the least of the evils of what this market could be.
Ticketmaster wants exclusive rights to sell the tickets. Artists stipulate a certain price point. Ticketmaster has to sell at that point to get the contract. Ergo, they’re protecting the ability of people to see a ticketed event at less than what the market might bear if it were a free for all.
Sorry, but I don’t buy that. I’ve been to too many non-Ticketmaster concerts. Scalpers make people less interested in going to concerts because even the illusion that they could get a decent seat without being a rich asshole has been taken from them.
Some of this is correct, but some of it doesn’t stack up. Clearly where Ticketmaster is selling tickets that can be bought by a scalper and sold for three times the value, the tickets have been sold by Ticketmaster below their value. I’m with you to that point.
However, you engage in a massive excluded middle when you suggest that the only alternative to the current system is upping the price of “all the tickets”. Ticketmaster could undoubtedly use airline style pricing with rates varying according to seat placement and time to the show, and could fill halls in that way, just as airlines do. They could be charging scalper level prices for those tickets that scalpers are currently able to sell at very high prices, and a pittance (if necessary) for those tickets that aren’t as desirable (or at less desirable times).