# Ask the Freemason **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 10, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971 "2006-10-10T19:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/61 "2006-10-12T21:18:04Z")
As to the Sherman tale… a Sherman scholar from the University of Georgia once spoke to the Civil War roundtable of which I’m a member, and said virtually every town of any size along Sherman’s route (and some which are well off it) has folklore about Sherman sparing their town because he had a West Point classmate from there, or had once loved a girl from there, etc. I’d never heard the Mormon angle, though. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/62 "2006-10-13T13:15:30Z")
[QUOTE=ShelliBean] I’d still love a reply from Hey Homie, as it is rare for me to find someone that has even heard of my hometown, much less a doper!! [/QUOTE] Well, it appears I was told a sincerely-believed (at least among the good people of Aberdeen) urban legend, or my leg was being pulled. What do you want to know, **ShelliBean**? I spent a summer there about 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/63 "2006-10-13T13:42:41Z")
The Mason angle, I mean. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/64 "2006-10-14T00:47:35Z")
My plate is pretty much identical to the one posted, save it also has gold lining the outer edges, and is slightly worn from being carted from place to place. I am undecided as to if I would be wiling to part with it… while it is a relic from an ancestor, much of that ancestry isn’t worth a whole lot. Hmmmm… Thank you for the response, however. I appreciate it! ---
**Author:** ![DVsickgirlDV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DVsickgirlDV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DVsickgirlDV)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/65 "2006-10-14T21:23:24Z")
[QUOTE=MelCthefirst] What about different ethnicities? Do you have Asian, Black, Hispanic etc members? Are the majority white? I’m just trying to work out why/if Masons are different from any other Old Boys network. [/QUOTE] I think this depends on where the chapter is located as well. My dad lived about 2 hours south of Atlanta and joined the Freemasons in 2004 and he was the very first non-white member ever admitted into their chapter. On top of that, even though his chapter now admits non-white men, they don’t admit Black men. Black men have their own separate chapter now. Can you believe this still happens and it’s 2006? So my question for Bobo, when you hear about the segretion of chapters like this, how does it make you feel? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/66 "2006-10-14T22:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] **Kilvert’s Pagan** - While having a living Masonic relative might speed things up for you, it’s not necessary. Mentioning either living or deceased relatives will get the conversation started with another mason, but isn’t necessary. Primary attributes we seek are an honest man that’s not addicted to the intemperate use of drugs, **alcohol,** or gambling. [/QUOTE] Does your Order, then, not deserve its reputation in respect of the bolded? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/67 "2006-10-14T22:53:26Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] And to **Bobtheoptimist** , along those same lines, how do Masons feel about Joseph Smith basically robbing you guys dry in coming up with the Mormon temple stuff? I mean, my secret Mormon temple underwear used to have a compass and a square sewn into it, for hell’s sake. Do Masons not care? Roll their eyes? Find it genuinely offensive? [/QUOTE] Was Smith a Mason? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/68 "2006-10-14T23:00:07Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] I doubt most masons are aware of this. Me, I guess I’d say “Hmm… how about that”. The Elks ([BPOE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BPOE)) stole a lot of Masonic ritual. Either the non-Wiccan pagans stole from Masons, or vice-versa. Much of the symbolism of the rituals are purely pagan, but with the age of the stuff we’re talking, one could have contaminated the other near a thousand years ago. [/QUOTE] Do you really believe Masonry is a thousand years old? ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/69 "2006-10-14T23:03:56Z")
My grandfather was a Freemason. He died in the early '60s, when I was maybe 4 or so. I remember very little about the funeral, but my older sister, who would have been 7-ish, does. She has memories of some ritual involving an apron. What rituals are part of a Masonic funeral, and what do they signify? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/70 "2006-10-14T23:10:46Z")
In Heinlein’s novella “If This Goes On --”, Masons served as the organizing structure for the anti-theocratic rebellion. Heinlein worked other (usually oblique) references to Masonry in various of his stories. Was he a Mason? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/71 "2006-10-14T23:23:20Z")
[QUOTE=HeyHomie] Can you confirm or deny this story? As General Sherman was marching toward Atlanta, he came upon the town of Aberdeen, Mississippi. As was the custom of the day, Sherman was given an audience with the mayor of the town before he set about to burning it to the ground. The mayor and Sherman shook hands, each giving the Masonic secret handshake. Realizing that the mayor of Aberdeen was a Mason, and since Masons swear to do no harm to one another, Sherman decided not to destroy Aberdeen and moved on to the next town. This was told to me as gospel truth by a resident of Aberdeen. :dubious: [/QUOTE] In [_The Temple and the Lodge,_](http://www.amazon.com/Temple-Lodge-Michael-Baigent/dp/1559701269/sr=8-1/qid=1160867631/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2608440-0436164?ie=UTF8) it’s asserted that during the Revolution, many American and British officers were Masons and held clandestine joint lodge meetings when possible. The British officers did not therefor refuse to fight, but they did so half-heartedly. Furthermore, a lot of influential Brits back home were Masons and had absorbed the (at the time radical) Masonic values of liberty, reason, intellectual freedom, religious freedom, etc., so they were of two minds as to whether they wanted to win this war against a nascent free republic. The authors give this state of affairs partial credit for America’s ultimate independence – which depended not on defeating the Brits in the field (the Americans never did, before Yorktown), but on the Brits losing the political will to continue the war. Do modern Masons credit this theory? ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/72 "2006-10-14T23:48:45Z")
[QUOTE=DVsickgirlDV] So my question for Bobo, when you hear about the segretion of chapters like this, how does it make you feel? [/QUOTE] Makes me feel glad I don’t live in Georgia! My experience says this is a regional problem and not a Masonic one. **BrainGlutton** , re: Alcohol, not around here it doesn’t. I hear rumors that outside the US is a different story, but alcohol is seriously frowned upon and not served in any Blue Lodge I’ve ever seen. The Shriners are a little different, but AF&AM buildings are dry around these parts. Won’t even rent the building out for receptions because we don’t allow alcohol. Age - I believe masonry is 5,000 years old (or so) and that the masonic guilds in medieval Europe had a profound influence on the rituals of the Freemasons. Mormans - **OneCentStamp** and **Monty** could probably answer this better, as all I know is the result of a quick Google, claims that Smith & Co. were made “Masons on sight” after the church was established. Heinlein, to the best of my knowledge, was never a Freemason. Revolutionary War - We’ve several stories of POW’s being released on their word, but nothing about letting us win the war. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/73 "2006-10-15T02:09:14Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Makes me feel glad I don’t live in Georgia! My experience says this is a regional problem and not a Masonic one. [/quote] As noted in a prior post, there are Prince Hall Lodges and the other lodges. Historically, PHL have been joined by Blacks and members of other races have joined the others. That does not mean that PHL do not accept members of other races or that the other lodges do not accept Blacks. It’s certainly a regional thing–again, as noted in other posts, PH Grand Lodges and the other Grand Lodges in some jurisdictions recognize each other. Those in other jurisdictions don’t. > [@](#): > > Mormans Mormons. > [@](#): > > - **OneCentStamp** and **Monty** could probably answer this better, as all I know is the result of a quick Google, claims that Smith & Co. were made “Masons on sight” after the church was established. [According to the Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith%2C_Jr.), > [@](#): > > Smith was introduced to Masonry (possibly by John C. Bennett[citation needed]); on March 15, 1842, he was initiated as a Freemason, as an Entered Apprentice Mason at the Nauvoo Lodge. The next day, he was initiated as a Master Mason; the usual month-long wait between degrees was waived by the Illinois Lodge Grandmaster, Abraham Jonas. Smith attended less than a half-dozen Masonic meetings. Some commentators have noted similarities between portions of the temple ordinance of the endowment and the Royal Arch Degree of Freemasonry. I, personally, will not describe the Endowment because I consider the Temple and its ordinances to be extremely sacred. I cannot, of course describe the Royal Arch Degree ritual, even if I were so inclined, because I am not a Mason and have never seen it. > [@](#): > > Heinlein, to the best of my knowledge, was never a Freemason. [This site](http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/rahfaq.html#0103) asserts that Virginia Heinlein states her husband was never a Mason. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/74 "2006-10-15T02:15:18Z")
p.s. I don’t know exactly how others feel about revealing Masonic or Temple rituals; however, here’s the way I view it: continuing to ask about them is, in my opinion, no different than badgering a Roman Catholic priest for an exact account of what someone confessed to him and the exact words of the confessor in response. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will not divulge stuff they’ve promised not to. Nor will Freemasons divulge stuff they’ve promised not to. Those rituals aren’t clandestine, they’re not evil, and they’re certainly not planning sessions to take over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/75 "2006-10-15T04:42:43Z")
Mormons… I swear I checked that and then went ahead with the wrong one. Sorry! I have seen non-Prince Hall black men in our lodge, but I imagine most would seek out a PH lodge. However, since Prince Hall holds their charter from the UGLE (IIRC), they are as much Freemasons as the AF&AM. Recognition between Grand Lodges is, as I said, a complicated affair. Denying someone admission based on skin color is anti-Masonic, I believe. [QUOTE=Monty] they’re certainly not planning sessions to take over the world. [/QUOTE] I am. They aren’t helping, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/76 "2006-10-15T04:45:35Z")
Yep, the Trilateralists do all the exciting stuff nowadays. All we get are the simple jobs, poisoning wells, making the cows go dry and all that. Yep, we have lots of Asian and Black brothers. (Most especially in African and Asian nations where I have sat many times.) As for Masonic funerals, we read a few verses from the Bible, explain the significance of the white apron to the family and leave one on top of the casket. (It is worthy of note we like to go last, and the military insists on going last, so this leads to a tug-of-war from time to time.) Outside of the UK, I have never been in a Lodge that allowed alcohol. The Shrine, as noted allows strong drink in their buildings, but being the ‘fun’ part of Masonry was always their mission so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/77 "2006-10-15T04:46:18Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] I, personally, will not describe the Endowment because I consider the Temple and its ordinances to be extremely sacred. I cannot, of course describe the Royal Arch Degree ritual, even if I were so inclined, because I am not a Mason and have never seen it. [/QUOTE] The Royal Arch degree is not currently a part of the Blue Lodge, I don’t believe. It might be called something else now, but it’s my impression that the Royal Arch is a York Rite thing, so I probably wouldn’t recognize it even if I converted to Mormonism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/78 "2006-10-15T07:20:47Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] A number of the things inside are treated with respect, but after the closing ceremony at the end of the meeting, they are stuck in a box without any formality. [/QUOTE] The ritual equipment itself is unimportant. The way in which it is _used_ is extremely important. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/79 "2006-10-15T07:39:23Z")
I picture someone like Dwight Schrute (from _The Office_) being a Freemason. Are you Dwight Schrute? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971/80 "2006-10-15T11:34:12Z")
Does it strike you as fair that masons give each other preferential treatment outside the masonic temple in, say, business situations, while women who are deliberately excluded from being masons will be stepped around to help a brother? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/375971.md?page=5)