# Ask the Freemason **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931 "2010-03-18T20:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/61 "2010-03-19T16:41:44Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > You mention that you were initiated into a series of degrees of Masonry, and that there are more to come. > > Other than having different initiation ceremonies as you discuss, can you explain the both ceremonial and practical differences between the degrees. Are there reasons why one would get one or more of them and not the others? Do they entitle you to different things? Are there separate requirements for each? Once you complete the first Degree (Entered Apprentice) you are a Mason, but you may only attend Lodges opened on the First Degree. It is my understanding that most of the activity of the Lodge is conducted while opened on the Third Degree (Master Mason), so you would have to leave the Lodge room and wait downstairs or something while that business was attended to. I went through the degrees with 7 other guys, and one of them had to drop out after the First Degree because he had just opened a resteraunt and could not commit the time to taking the additional degrees. He’s planning on resuming in May, though. I can’t think of any practical reason why someone _wouldn’t_ want to complete all three degrees, though. The degree work is sort of fun, and gives you a couple months to get to know your fellow canditates, with whom you will likely form Masonic bonds. I’ve begun forging good friendships with a couple of the guys from my class already (gone out for beers, lunch, etc). The first Degree is in essence an introduction to Masonry. You are given the secret word and handshake of the Entered Apprentice and can participate in a Lodge opened on that degree. In the EA oath, you promise to keep the secrets of Masonry. Lastly, you may travel to other Lodges (opened on the first Degree), but must be accompanied by a Master Mason. The second Degree, Fellowcraft, confers additional words, handshakes, and elements in the oath. You are entitled to attend Lodge opened on the second Degree, and visit other Lodges on that degree, if accompanied by a Master Mason. A Master Mason has been entrusted with all the secrets of Masonry and can _ **travel to any Lodge freely** _ (as long as the Master Mason in question has a current dues card and isn’t under suspension from the Fraternity). A Master Mason can sit in on the Degree rituals of an Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft or Master Mason. I think of the first two Degrees as mile markers on the way to the third, but as you see they can be destinations in and of themselves. Less quantifyable, but equally important, is that the ceremonies themselves become more elaborate, longer and more solemn/serious from first to third. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/62 "2010-03-19T16:42:46Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Welcome to the club Brother **Winston Smith!** Thank you, Brother Paul! I hope I am representing the Craft well herein. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/63 "2010-03-19T16:48:02Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Is it true that all the secrets are in books that anyone can buy at a Masonic bookstore or a public library. Yes, all the secret information conferred to me in the course of my Masonic initiation ceremonies is available in bookstores, libraries, and on line. The thing is, the secrets are meaningless if you aren’t a Mason. The secrets are only meaningful within the context of the Fraternity and the rituals in which they are conferred. I don’t think it’s really a big deal, though, because it is highly unlikely a non-Mason could “fake” his way into a Lodge, and even if he did, what he found there would be meaningless to him, lacking the context & perspective on an actual initiate. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/64 "2010-03-19T16:49:20Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > Did you get to meet Steve Gutenberg? I did! He presided over my first Degree! (Just kidding) No. I have never met Steve Gutenberg, but I _loved_ Police Academy. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/65 "2010-03-19T16:52:45Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In the famous Kipling story (“The Man Who Would Be King”). the newspaper man is relaying a message from Daniel Dravott, to Peachy Carnahan. > He is asked to identify himself-and he replies “for the sake of the widow’s son”-is this a Masonic identification? Those words are meaningful to me, but not in the context presented. I’ve never read much Kipling, but 10 seconds on a search engine reveal he was a Mason. Perhaps he wanted to suggest a taste of Masonic authenticity without revealing too much. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/66 "2010-03-19T16:54:20Z")
> [@freckafree](#): > > Not to hijack **Winston** ’s thread, but you might be happy with Rotary. (I’m no longer a member. I just didn’t have the time I felt I should commit to it.) We had a lot of women (including me) in our chapter. I’ve looked into the Rotary but they meet during the work day for some reason. Ah well. As I don’t mean to hijack the thread either, I’ll ask another question: How do you feel about excluding women from being Masons? Do you predict that Masons allowing women is in the foreseeable future? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/67 "2010-03-19T17:00:18Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > How come a Catholic can not become a free mason? Do you need to be an athiest to belong? I have a friend who is a Christian that goes on and on about how evil free masonry is. That the Third Temple is being rebuilt by the masons and it will be the end of the world etc. I shut her off at this point. > > I always thought it was a mens club similiar to the Knights Of Columbus? A place for guys to do guy stuff. Secret rituals and rites and rings? I’m Catholic, and I’m a Mason. I’d rather not speculate about why the Holy See villifies Masons, since I don’t want my personal opinion being misconstrued as Masonic canon, and I don’t want this thread to become contentious. I can say, however, that nothing about being a Mason interferes with my being a Catholic, nor detracts from it in any way. As a matter of fact, being a Mason could very possibly make me a _better_ Catholic. You _cannot_ be a Mason if you are an athiest. So do I. The Third Temple being built is allegory for self-improvement. Yes, it is in some ways similar to the KoC. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/68 "2010-03-19T17:04:55Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > So what’s the average age in your lodge, or in your Order as a whole if you have some sense of it? I mostly know about the Elks, and they are worried about the fact that they’re trending older and older as time goes on. I’m in a young Lodge - the average is 43. I think. My town is big on social clubs, though, and is rife with them. Every neighborhood has a club, and there are a handful of clubs even more secretive and exclusive than the Masons. There’s one club in town called “The 100 Club”. They have exactly 100 members. No more, no less. The waiting list to join is over 20 years long, as you have to wait for someone to die to get his seat & key. It’s costly to join, too, and the one-time initiation fee makes you a life member. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/69 "2010-03-19T17:13:28Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > OK, enough with the penny-ante questions, somethign we all want to know: > > Why the secrets? I doubt (though honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if I was wrong) that Masons, for example, have secret government access, or own all the world’s gold or something like that, but why do they even have secrets from us “normals” then? I would think that a lot of the bad rep that Masons get would be cleared up if they were just open about what the secrets were, especially if they don’t have any meaning to us. I’m sure that for most people, the word “Mason” = “secrets”, not “fraternity” or “philanthropy”, or “community involvement”, but “secrets”. > > (Interestingly, the Google ad that comes up for this thread is “Freemasony Warning: > Do Not Join The Freemasons Until You’ve Seen This… > www. SecretsofMasons. com” I like the humour in the Google ad placement on some of these threads, adds to my Dope enjoyment … ) Because it’s fun to have secrets that make the “normals” quake in dread. 😛 A few minutes with a search engine will reveal that at this point it’s pretty clear the Masonic secrets have all been revealed and don’t amount to much more than a few words and special handshakes, and I think any Mason you meet will tell you pretty much everything you’d care to know about the Fraternity (short of those words and handshakes). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/70 "2010-03-19T17:20:54Z")
About how long does it take to go from new member to Master Mason? I’m curious because I recently googled an old (former) friend who I parted company with about 9 years ago. At that time he was an avowed Atheist and had serious issues getting any time away from home (due to wife pressure). Now I see that he’s a Master Mason, and an officer of his order, among other things. Honestly, I was rather shocked to see that, but I have to admit that I very much respect that accomplishment on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/71 "2010-03-19T17:56:35Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > “Mostly,” perhaps, but what about someone who _was_ born into slavery? Would he be denied membership? It does still happen in today’s world. Hmm. I’m in uncharted territory here, but I’ll say: No. I don’t think he would be denied membership if he had “cast off his bonds”. I think the original context of the words _free-born_ is germane here. Back when the rituals were written, a man was either a slave, or a free-born man - if you were a slave, you stayed that way. Like I said, the operative use of the words in today’s ceremony are to confer the importance of actually having time to devote for the fraternity. I don’t think it should be interpreted as approving of the practice of slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/72 "2010-03-19T18:08:54Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > How do you feel about excluding women from being Masons? Do you predict that Masons allowing women is in the foreseeable future? I don’t think it’s a problem. I mean, it’s a _Fraternity_. By definition it’s an organization for _men_. Just like on the college campus: Fraternities for the men, Sororities for the women. I’m sure there’s plenty of social clubs out there that wouldn’t allow me - a white, Christian male, but I don’t begrudge them that. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/73 "2010-03-19T18:13:00Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > Once you complete the first Degree (Entered Apprentice) you are a Mason, but you may only attend Lodges opened on the First Degree. It is my understanding that most of the activity of the Lodge is conducted while opened on the Third Degree (Master Mason), so you would have to leave the Lodge room and wait downstairs or something while that business was attended to. _has an epiphany_ Is this where the phrase “giving somoene the third degree” comes from? I remember last year when one of the local Mason chapters asked my Toastmasters group to come and give a presentation about public speaking to them, some members including myself got together to go out there, but it never happened,a s we went to the main lodge in the city (one that Toastmasters are familiar with, as another club meets there as well) instead of a smaller suburban lodge. They understood. But what reminded me was that we were told that we’d have to wait outside the room for part of the meeting while they do secret Mason things. > [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > Because it’s fun to have secrets that make the “normals” quake in dread. 😛 > > A few minutes with a search engine will reveal that at this point it’s pretty clear the Masonic secrets have all been revealed and don’t amount to much more than a few words and special handshakes, and I think any Mason you meet will tell you pretty much everything you’d care to know about the Fraternity (short of those words and handshakes). Bah, that’s not what I care about. If those “secrets” are out on the web and in bookstores, then they’re not really “secret” now, are they? No, I mean something that is truly a Masonic secret, like your plot for world domination, where you’re hiding Elvis, or at least a good chicken tandoori recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/74 "2010-03-19T18:36:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > About how long does it take to go from new member to Master Mason? > > I’m curious because I recently googled an old (former) friend who I parted company with about 9 years ago. At that time he was an avowed Atheist and had serious issues getting any time away from home (due to wife pressure). Now I see that he’s a Master Mason, and an officer of his order, among other things. Honestly, I was rather shocked to see that, but I have to admit that I very much respect that accomplishment on his part. It took about two months for me. It is possible to do all three Degrees in a single day, but the officers of my Lodge all told me I’ll have more fun and learn more by goign the traditional route. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/75 "2010-03-19T18:38:34Z")
Why dodging the mormon parallel question? (Post #58.) Missed it or missed it on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/76 "2010-03-19T18:39:36Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > _has an epiphany_ Is this where the phrase “giving somoene the third degree” comes from? Yes (or so I’m told). > [@dhkendall](#): > > I remember last year when one of the local Mason chapters asked my Toastmasters group to come and give a presentation about public speaking to them, some members including myself got together to go out there, but it never happened,a s we went to the main lodge in the city (one that Toastmasters are familiar with, as another club meets there as well) instead of a smaller suburban lodge. They understood. But what reminded me was that we were told that we’d have to wait outside the room for part of the meeting while they do secret Mason things. They were probably opening the Lodge, which is a private ritual. > [@dhkendall](#): > > Bah, that’s not what I care about. If those “secrets” are out on the web and in bookstores, then they’re not really “secret” now, are they? No, I mean something that is truly a Masonic secret, like your plot for world domination, where you’re hiding Elvis, or at least a good chicken tandoori recipe. You’re exactly correct - our Masonic “secrets” aren’t really secret at all. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/77 "2010-03-19T18:40:53Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > I was raised to the Sublime Degree of Master Mason on March 16, was previously passed to the degree of Fellow Craft on 2/16 and was initiated an Entered Apprentice on 1/19. I have been invited to ‘join the line’ in the fall, meaning I will become an officer of the Lodge and _may_ some day work my way up to Worshipful Master of my Blue Lodge (Grand Poobah). Honest question; you guys are just joking around with those titles, right? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/78 "2010-03-19T18:42:30Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Why dodging the mormon parallel question? (Post #58.) > > Missed it or missed it on purpose? My apologies. I thought that **Paul in Qatar** had responded, and I have never even heard of it (the mormon parallel). I figured you’d gotten a fair response and did not mean to slight you. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/79 "2010-03-19T18:55:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Honest question; you guys are just joking around with those titles, right? Well, yes and no. I mean, the titles, vestments, rituals and so on are taken very seriously within the context of the Fraternity, because these are the things that make us Masons. The guy that runs the Lodge (the Grand Poobah) is referred to as “Worshipful Master”, or “Worshipful” if you’re into the whole brevity thing. I felt a little awkward at first, calling the guy “Worshipful”, but I got used to it pretty quick, and learning the funny vagaries of protocol and stuff is part of the fun of being a Mason. It’s meant to be an enjoyable experience. All the traditions of the Fraternity are communicated by practice - I’m learning the rituals and protocol of Masonry, and some day, when the current crop of senior Lodge officers dies, I’ll be the teacher passing on the traditions of the Fraternity to new Masons. So, it’s a pretty important responsibility to learn the rituals and protocols, but at the same time, we all recognize that some of it is pretty silly. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931/80 "2010-03-19T19:22:46Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > My apologies. I thought that **Paul in Qatar** had responded, and I have never even heard of it (the mormon parallel). I figured you’d gotten a fair response and did not mean to slight you. I didn’t see how Paul in Qatar’s response had anything to do with my question. I provided a link above so you can see what the mormon temple rituals are like and can more accurately compare. Full Disclosure: I’m an exmormon but have never been to the mormon temple. There’s a lot of discussion ongoing on the exmo boards in regard to the Masonic connection to mormonism, which is why I’m following this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-freemason/532931.md?page=5)