# Ask the Gay Guy II! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2000, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028 "2000-05-09T18:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2000, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/141 "2000-06-14T23:17:08Z")
Yeah, I did, Matt. 'Course, it’s possible that fundamentalists can’t dress. V. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2000, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/142 "2000-06-14T23:21:02Z")
fundamentalists can’t dress. Yep, just check out Jan Crouch if ya dont believe it! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2000, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/143 "2000-06-14T23:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Then why do bi sexuals have to take so much abuse (BUT not from the straight community–the only people who have left me behind are the lesbians who were my friends)… > > Definitely not a united front… > > \*\* Well, if you are still calling yourself gay or a lesbian now that you are involved with a man then I can see why your lesbian friends are upset. If you are bisexual – and it seems that you are – you should call yourself that. Be proud to be bi! Now, if that’s what you are already doing then I think you should just give your friends time to adjust to the idea that you’re a little different than they thought you were. They should get used to it soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/144 "2000-06-15T01:04:12Z")
I don’t think you have to call yourself bisexual if you don’t want to. I would argue that Sue possibly would have a good reason to call herself that, but she can call herself a lesbian if she so chooses. (Sparrow, whom I referred to earlier, refers to herself as a bi-dyke.) I’ll admit it - once in a great while, I find myself attracted to a woman. No big deal. I’m still a big fag. ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/145 "2000-06-15T03:16:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Question about terminology: in a previous post you used the terms, “gay, lesbian…” I’ve noticed in news articles references to gay groups (encompassing men and women) but then later in the article, gays, lesbians… Is a lesbian gay? Why a new word for male homosexuals and not for female homosexuals? Is it incorrect to refer to a lesbian as gay? Coming a bit late into the conversation because of a vacation. I have noted that if you say “gay” or “homosexual” a majority of people will immediately assume you’re talking about a male. So I throw in the term “lesbian” just to make things clear. Personally, I self-identify as gay, queer, lesbian, or dyke. I’m not picky. Also, someone earlier posted the origins of the term “gay”. I can’t recall which thread though. However, it was not meant to take away the negative connotations of the term “homosexual”. If I recall correctly, “gay” meant “a person with loose morals”. ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/146 "2000-06-15T04:13:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Then why do bi sexuals have to take so much abuse (BUT not from the straight community–the only people who have left me behind are the lesbians who were my friends)… **SueFriendly** , sounds like they weren’t really your friends if they only hung out with you because of your orientation. Labels suck. Period. Labels make communicating complex ideas easier, but still they “lock” you into a role. If you deviate from that role in any way, then people see you as dishonest or confused. I believe humans can be very fluid in their sexuality. Who you are attracted to when you are 16 will probably turn you off when you are 40. It seems like you have people trying to tell you who you should be. That you should be a dyke or an ex-gay or a bi-sexual. My philosophy is just be. If you’re happy and healthy, then what’s the problem?! Though, if we must discuss labels… You’re with a man because you’re in love with him, not because you hate yourself. That’s what separates you from ex-gays. You like a man, but once liked girls (or perhaps still like girls), that would indicate you’re bi-sexual. Though you were emotionally unsatisfied with girls, which could mean that emotionally you’re straight, but physically homosexual/bisexual. Or perhaps you’re emotionally and physically bisexual, but didn’t ever find the right girl. See why labels suck? Human nature is too complex to narrow to one word. Don’t worry about your former friends. Move on and make new, healthier friendships. > [@](#): > > My question du jour is what is the consensus, if any, about the realism of “Object of My Affection”? (Personally, I loved the film, and the movie, along with “She’s the One” demonstrate that Aniston, (with the possible exception of Kudrow) is the Friend with Talent.) An aside: I consider Kudrow the Friend with Talent too. Haven’t seen enough of Aniston to decide on her yet. **SuaSponte** I didn’t get to see Object of my Affection, so can’t really discuss it. Though another movie that deals with the subject is Carrington. You might want to check it out. From what I understand it’s based on a true story. > [@](#): > > What I’m asking is whether sex will alway trump love and/or whether sex in an integral part of love? I know you asked Esprix this, but I couldn’t resist adding my $0.02 I think that if you let sex come in the way of a really strong, potentially lifelong emotional bond, then you’ve missed out. However, for me I haven’t met a guy yet that I just absolutely want to move in and spend his life with me. I enjoy playing pool and talking with them during the week and the occasional weekend, sure. However, I don’t want to see them _all_ the time. Then there were girls who I wanted to spend every waking moment with, and in many cases there wasn’t even sex involved. So emotionally as well as sexually my feelings are homosexual. If a guy comes along and I fall in love with him, I won’t question it. Right now, it just doesn’t seem very likely. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/147 "2000-06-15T08:23:14Z")
PeterB: it is one thing to be attracted to YOUNG people, it is quite another to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children, ie 12-13 year olds, no matter what sex they are. I suggest counseling. I think 17 yr old cheerleaders are sexy as hell, even tho it is illegal to act on it. But kids are another thing, entirely. ---
**Author:** ![SueFriendly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@SueFriendly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SueFriendly)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/148 "2000-06-15T15:13:45Z")
I want to agree wholly with Beakerxf. I know labels SUCK!! But it seems to me that some people don’t want to bother with getting to know people on a personal level and find it easier to lump them into categories (that they can have stereotypical opinions about). Being categorized as a bi-sexual, I have no problem with that. Being accused of being a sell-out (oh sister, don’t say that!) really hurts. You’re all right. My friends will either come around or keep on showing their true colors. However, just keeping to my straight friends has been getting… not boring, but shall I say undiverse? Life is not fair. “Really, I’m just the same as I was yesterday… You don’t have to treat me any differently.” Seems like I just said all that 10 years ago… \*Thanks for the support all. Keepin on keepin on. Sue ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/149 "2000-06-15T16:27:00Z")
**SueFriendly** wrote: > [@](#): > > Help me out-- do I have to go in a category? I don’t want to be an ex- anything. However, since crossing the street, I’m losing friends like flies. I was strictly a lesbian for years and years. Now I get lots of crap since I fell in love with a man!! We live in differenrt states, but this feeling is so much stronger (sweeter) than it was with any of my live in girlfriends Am I not gay?? I still have my rainbows, I still look like a dyke and my b-friend has been ok with it, since I came out to him two years ago (We’ve been intensely involved for a little less than a year.) Honey, quit worrying. It’s most important that you be who you are, love who you love, and not let the turkeys get you down. Firstly, my very own adopted big sister is a self-identified lesbian who happened to be in a 7-year relationship with a man. It ended, and now she’s dating a wonderful woman, but she never stopped considering herself a lesbian that whole time. OK, I think it’s weird, but it worked for them. Second, there are studies to indicate that women are much more accepting of the fluidity of the sexual identity/orientation spectrum than men are, so therefore it is less unusual to see them move from same-sex to opposite-sex relationships, and vice-versa. Lucky you. 😉 Thirdly, “ex-gay” is a very specific term that refers to people who _have the desire to change their sexual orientation and/or behavior and actively pursue that goal_, usually through religious-based therapies (which have been dubbed potentially harmful quackery by professional psychological groups, but hey, it seems to work for some people). “Just falling in love with someone” may be contrary to your past sexual history, but all it does is show you had a bit 'o the “bi” in you all along. Even I, the **Gay Guy** have admitted to a sexual attraction to two women (Sophia Loren and Seven of Nine, but for God’s sake, don’t tell Dr. Boyfriend! :D). Plus, you’re no longer denying your attraction to women, you’ve just added a man to the list. If you and this guy break up, there’d be a good chance you’d get involved with a woman again, _n’est-ce pas_? An ex-gay would never “backslide” into a same-sex relationship, having convinced themselves that they’re now straight (or at least they’re consciously denying their same-sex feelings, or denying acting on them). Fourth, your friends are way too tied up in their own internalized homophobia. If they don’t like you dating a man, then it’s time to find some new friends. The bottom line is, call yourself whatever makes you comfortable (lesbian, bi-dyke, bisexual, whatever), and I hope things go well with you and your love. > [@](#): > > Then why do bi sexuals have to take so much abuse (BUT not from the straight community–the only people who have left me behind are the lesbians who were my friends)… Because biphobia is as prevalent as homophobia, except they get it from both ends (as t’were) - the gays say they “haven’t made up their mind yet,” and the straights say “it’s just a phase.” **vanilla** wrote: > [@](#): > > a bit of a clarification: the certain sdmb member is not “struggling” with same sex attraction, and hasn’t “taken steps” to change. It just happened. And **Snark** wrote: > [@](#): > > No, actually, I just found myself attracted to her in many ways, including physically, and found that my body was responding to that attraction. Huh. Newsflash to me. This flies directly in the face of everything that you’ve said before about “the big switch.” Whatever. I’ll take your word for it. We’re both tired of this discussion. **SuaSponte** wrote: > [@](#): > > Gooollly, for a latecomer to this thread, I’m sure posting a lot. No such thing as a “latecomer” - this is a rather fluid, ongoing thread IMHO. Er, GD. Wait… 😛 > [@](#): > > My question du jour is what is the consensus, if any, about the realism of “Object of My Affection”?.. I’m not asking about whether an intimate relationship between a straight woman and a gay man could develop… What I’m asking is whether sex will alway trump love and/or whether sex in an integral part of love? Esprix, could you see yourself getting into a committed non-sexual relationship with a fem? If you did, do you think sex with other people would ruin it? I liked “OoMA” right up until the time they started making out - completely ruined the film for me. I dunno, maybe I just assumed the exploration of a straight woman/gay male friendship was enough to build a movie on, and then they go and throw in a curveball like that. I just didn’t like it - gave me the willies. (Although a friend of mine loves the movie because he says the same thing happened to him once - a very good girl friend of his and he were both very, very lonely and ended up almost having sex. He says he’s glad he didn’t, though.) Of course there are examples, even right here on this board, of “mixed marriages” that work. Could I ever do that? No. I have one very close straight female friend, but not that close. I guess perhaps the fact that I’ve always had such great romantic relationships with men that getting into a long-term non-sexual relationship with anyone, male or female, other than just friends, just seems very foreign to me; so no, I don’t think that would work for me. And if, by some chance, it were to happen, there ain’t no way I’d stop having relationships with men. Would it ruin the relationship? Well, I don’t think I’d get into this particular kind of a relationship with someone who couldn’t handle us both seeing other people romantically. I would think, though, that eventually another loving relationship would end ours - if I met a man and fell in love, I wouldn’t hesitate to build my life around him - it’s the way I’m built. Best-case scenario, of course, would be to integrate both of those important people into my life. But, again, I really don’t see anything like that happening to me. Have you seen “The Next Best Thing?” Also deals with this situation, only it also involves a child. **matt\_mcl** wrote: > [@](#): > > I’ll admit it - once in a great while, I find myself attracted to a woman. No big deal. I’m still a big fag. ☹ {sniff} {BOO HOO HOO!} ☹ I am spurned by a _woman_! ☹ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2000, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/150 "2000-06-15T19:20:58Z")
> [@](#): > > {sniff} {BOO HOO HOO!} I am spurned by a woman! _violins_ Esprix, even if Ezri Dax herself were trying to jump my bones, I’d still wriggle out of it if it meant that I could be with you. Just promise me that the same is true for Seven of Nine. I love YOU, my sweet Philadelphian snugglebunny!_/violins_ ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/151 "2000-06-16T00:20:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you seen “The Next Best Thing?” Also deals with this situation, only it also involves a child. Ok question for ya, **Gay Guy**. Did you like The Next Best Thing? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/152 "2000-06-16T04:50:10Z")
_Seven of Nine?!?!_ Oh come on, Gay Guy, she has almost _no_ meat on her bones! Couldn’t your one-exception-to-being-the-Gay-Guy have been a more substantial woman? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/153 "2000-06-16T06:19:20Z")
Yeah, I thought you had to say Liza Manelli or they’d take the damn toaster back. ---
**Author:** ![PeterB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e8c25b/32.png) [@PeterB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeterB)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/154 "2000-06-16T13:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > PeterB: it is one thing to be attracted to YOUNG people, it is quite another to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children, ie 12-13 year olds, no matter what sex they are. I suggest counseling. Prepubsecent? Nuh-uh. > [@](#): > > I think 17 yr old cheerleaders are sexy as hell, even tho it is illegal to act on it. Then move. It ain’t illegal here (well, it would be if there were male cheerleaders; they’re not legal 'til they’re 18, if they’re boys. But as cheerleaders are always girls, that’s not a problem). ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/155 "2000-06-16T15:03:03Z")
Ah, PeterB, I see by your profile that by “here” you mean London. (But why would someone who doesn’t know that London is in the U.K. be a dumb “Septic”? Does his city not have a sewer system? 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/156 "2000-06-16T19:55:06Z")
Moot point now, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![\_matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/ec9cab/32.png) [@\_matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/157 "2000-06-16T21:54:09Z")
For him, yes. For you, no. * * * Moot point now, isn’t it? \*Or is it? \*😃 Some people ASK for trolls to “bother” them. Hardly seems a bother, but they like to fuss, like babies. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2000, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/158 "2000-06-16T22:01:48Z")
Lynn is bearing down on you. Ciao, feo. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2000, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/159 "2000-06-17T01:53:17Z")
How come our registration system is allowing newcomers to use existing usernames? ---
**Author:** ![PeterB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e8c25b/32.png) [@PeterB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeterB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2000, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028/160 "2000-06-17T19:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Ah, PeterB, I see by your profile that by “here” you mean London. > > (But why would someone who doesn’t know that London is in the U.K. be a dumb “Septic”? Does his city not have a sewer system? 😉 ) > \*\* I can’t tell if you know the answer to that or not (my sarcasm-o-meter, much like my gaydar, is permanently stuck in “broken”. My gaydar appears to have been replaced with a “wishful-thinking-o-meter”, which is not especially useful). septics == septic tanks == yanks == our friends from the good ol’ US of A [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-ii/19028.md?page=9)