# Ask the Gay Guy III! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2000, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021 "2000-09-21T17:33:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/181 "2000-10-11T10:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*Maybe for you, but the thought of being between two **Doobieii** … {drool drool drool} 😉 > > Also explains why he’s straight and you’re queer. Isn’t there an extremely high correlation between identicals? > > Esprix \*\* Eww…dont even make me think about being in the same bed naked with him! :). Anyway, i did a little research and came up with something from this article: “Born Gay?” Source: Technology Review (1997), Jul93, Vol. 96 Issue 5, p60, 3p, 1c Author(s): Billings, Paul; Beckwith, Jonathan I’ll let you all decide, since it presents two views. I hope I havent posted too much. The moderator can delete it of course, but it will be harder for the rest of you to see it, since I got the article from EBSCO Host (a full text article database, which is free for me through my University, but is pay for the rest of you peons :D) > [@](#): > > In research published in 1991 in Archives of General Psychiatry, they reported that among identical twins reared together, each individual had a high probability (52 percent) of being homosexual if the other twin was. For non-identical twins, adopted brothers, and non-twin siblings, the correlations were much lower (22, 11, and 9 percent, respectively). > > The researchers solicited participation for their study through advertisements in gay newspapers. But this could well have produced a biased sample. It is not unreasonable to think that identical twins who are both openly homosexual would be more likely to volunteer for such a study because of the shared knowledge that they are both comfortable with their sexuality. Furthermore, if one gay twin “comes out,” it might be easier for the other to do the same. > > While the authors interpreted their findings as evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality, we think that the data in fact provide strong evidence for the influence of the environment. On average, both non-identical twins and non-twin siblings share 50 percent of their genes.If homosexuality were a genetic trait, the pairs in these groups should be homosexual a similar percentage of the time. They certainly should be homosexual more often than adopted siblings. But Bailey and Pillard’s data do not fit those predictions. > > Their results could instead stem from the uniform conditions under which some identical twins are raised, frequently dressed identically by parents and viewed similarly by outsiders. The environment could also figure in the fact that almost half the identical twins did not share sexual > preference. As I said, my twin is straight. I’m the only gay brother in the family. Since my parents are only children, i have no gay aunts or uncles. So, i dont know of any gay members (then again they still don’t know about me _yet_ so i may find out later if any grand aunts or uncles were). Twins also run in my mother’s side of tha family as well. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/182 "2000-10-12T16:36:38Z")
Not really anything to ask the Gay Guy, but this thread seems to provide a home for these little nuggets, and it’s not really MPSIMS… News short I read at the end of last week noted a cruise ship with a contingent of same-sex female couples was forbidden to discharge passengers for an overnight tour on one of the Greek islands. Given my taste for irony, can you guess the name of the island? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/183 "2000-10-12T16:58:10Z")
Mykonos? Crete? Maybe Santorini? 😉 MR ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/184 "2000-10-12T19:23:09Z")
My guess would be Lesbos. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/185 "2000-10-12T19:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*News short I read at the end of last week noted a cruise ship with a contingent of same-sex female couples was forbidden to discharge passengers for an overnight tour on one of the Greek islands. Given my taste for irony, can you guess the name of the island? 🙂 \*\* It was _indeed_ the Island of Lesbos. I laughed out loud when I read it! ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/186 "2000-10-12T22:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by psychobunny \* > \*\*OK, people, I need some advice. I talk to a guy on IM and I have always been pretty sure he is gay. […] Recently, he posted a picture of himself wearing a Provincetown T-shirt. […] should I let him know that this is OK with me, or wait until he makes it even more obvious. > \*\* I’d leave it go, if he wants to out himself, that’s his decision. IMHO, the point we gays are making is that our sexual orientation should not matter any more than religious creed, gender or race. HTH. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/187 "2000-10-12T22:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mars Horizon \* > \*\* It was _indeed_ the Island of Lesbos. I laughed out loud when I read it! \*\* [/QUOTE] Ain’t irony great?!? 😃 Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/188 "2000-10-12T22:58:57Z")
Didn’t someone mention that in one of these damn Gay Guy threads a while back? IIRC, the Lesbian authorities were upset that the lesbian cruise advertised their island as some sort of lesbian paradise, when in reality, most of the Lesbians are, in fact, not lesbians. Apparently, the idea of a cruise ship full of lesbians out to get some lesbian action with the Lesbians upset the Lesbians, who were rightly miffed at being represented as lesbians. I don’t think the Lesbians have anything against lesbians in general. Does that clear it up? This post must set some sort of record for gratuitous use of the word lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/189 "2000-10-13T14:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **psychobunny** _ > > … should this be considered his way of “outing” himself and should I let him know that this is OK with me, or wait until he makes it even more obvious. Until he says it, he hasn’t officially said it. That said, some people like to drop hints to test the water before saying it. Others have lived so long _without_ outright saying it but knowing that everybody knows anyway and nobody cares that the thought of _saying_ it doesn’t really enter into their minds - it just is. So, basically, hard to say, but the best way anyone can show their heart is by their actions, so if he hasn’t _said_ it, then don’t say it back, but feel free to _act_ exactly how you say you feel - that is, you don’t care. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Second, I was watching the movie “In and Out” and I thought it stereotyped gay men. It basically said that if a man liked to dance or was neat or liked Streisand he was gay. I am a straight female, so I would like to know if the gay guys here see it the same way and are you offended? It’s hard to be offended by stereotypes when I know people who act in stereotypical ways. I always remember, though, that stereotypes are the _summation_ of a long list of stereotypes, so although one gay man might like to dress in drag, that might be the _only_ “stereotypical trait” he may posess as a gay man - he might be butch, hate Streisand and love sports. And one of the things I liked about “In & Out” was that, for 95% of the movie, they were convincing you that he really was straight, but had been mistakenly assumed to be gay because of some stereotypical gay mannerisms. I kind of liked that about the film. (“Who says straight guys aren’t allowed to dance?” :D) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/190 "2000-10-13T14:17:22Z")
Welcome aboard, **Doctor Jones**! > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Doobieous** _ > > Eww…dont even make me think about being in the same bed naked with him! 🙂 Yes, but me naked in bed with you… mmm… (C’mon, boy - _flirt_ for chrissake!) Interesting study on twins. I had thought the correlation was much higher, but I hadn’t read all the research data, which is interesting in and of itself. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/191 "2000-10-13T14:24:27Z")
**Polycarp** , I read about the same thing. I also had a very interesting conversation with my good friend Keith this weekend who was telling me that he was on a gay cruise to, IIRC, Turkey, which was asked to leave port - even though they’d had the same gay cruise there for several years, this was the first year that a significantly larger boat had arrived, and for some reason the port was up in arms about “the gay influence” or some such nonsense. Keith was lucky enough to have gotten off the boat and onto one of the first few tour buses that was allowed to leave before the police decided to boot 'em, but he said it was kind of scary (although he never really feared for his life - the police wanted them gone, but weren’t going to let them get hurt (yes, there were demonstrators, it seems). It hurt them in the end - the local merchants were _furious_, but their next port of call was _quite_ happy to have them. Weird… > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **waterj2** _ > > IIRC, the Lesbian authorities were upset that the lesbian cruise advertised their island as some sort of lesbian paradise… > > This post must set some sort of record for gratuitous use of the word lesbian. I’m sure our resident chicks appreciate it to no end. 😉 Actually, I must correct an error. Because of the exact gratuitous use of the word “lesbian” and its new meaning, several years ago the residents of the Isle of Lesbos officially voted to change their moniker from “Lesbians” to “Lesbosians.” :rolleyes: Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/192 "2000-10-13T14:47:43Z")
I met a Lesbian once. He couldn’t speak English, but with the smattering of Greek I knew, sign language, and so on, we were able to communicate passably. 🙂 On a more serious note, some weeks ago lissener, Lauralee, and I got into a little contretemps on the subject of homosexuality and religion – and while I think things are reasonably well smoothed over, I would like to put forth the question of gay people’s attitudes regarding the idea that gay sexual activity is sinful. In the particular case at hand, Lauralee was quite explicit that in her mind it was a sin, that she was **not** judging lissener but, the subject of homosexuality and Christianity having come up, she felt it appropriate to state her religious views, which were that it was sinful. While I and many liberal Christians don’t find it necessarily so, as you (Esprix) and most regulars are aware, I defended her right to hold her views as regards her own behavior. And I (and most others, including Lauralee, heard and sympathized with the pain lissener expressed in the amount of judgmentalism held against him by people who took an attitude, not that they would live by their religious principles, but that their beliefs gave them license to stand in judgment over other people’s lives. And, given the tension in that thread, lissener got very offended at what he perceived as Lauralee’s judgmentalism, even though she tried to make it clear that she was not, but merely defending her own right to believe what she did in fact believe, and act accordingly herself. It’s a tough issue, and avoiding standing in judgment is never easy – though it’s one of my basic principles not to, I’ve done it more than once on these boards – and lived to regret it. So let me throw that question open for the assembled gay-i-tude: what’s your stance on the traditional religious beliefs? And why? Note that it ought to be pretty obvious to everyone what you think when the Jerry Falwells of the world start condemning gays – and decent Christians should be standing by you, not him, IMHO. But how about the day-to-day situations? Are you offended that people say, “I think it’s wrong, but I believe in live and let live” or words to that effect? Does that seem like a sort of disguised judgmentalism? Or do you accept it as something right for them, not for you? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/193 "2000-10-13T15:24:39Z")
\*\*PolyC wrote: So let me throw that question open for the assembled gay-i-tude: what’s your stance on the traditional religious beliefs? And why? Note that it ought to be pretty obvious to everyone what you think when the Jerry Falwells of the world start condemning gays – and decent Christians should be standing by you, not him, IMHO. But how about the day-to-day situations? Are you offended that people say, “I think it’s wrong, but I believe in live and let live” or words to that effect? Does that seem like a sort of disguised judgmentalism? Or do you accept it as something right for them, not for you? Or what?\*\* I try to have a “live and let live” attitude. If someone expresses an opinion about homosexuality and says “I think it’s wrong and sinful” I usually say “I disagree” and simply don’t bring up the topic again. In the workplace, it’s fairly easy to avoid it. On a personal/friendship level, I have to weigh in several factors. People are certainly entitled to hold whatever opinion they want. I’m sure I have several opinions that **they** consider wrong, yet the often won’t try to convert me to “their” way of thinking. I try to give them the same courtesy. One thing I’ve discovered is that when a person has set their mind on an issue, no matter who persuasive my arguements might be, they’re going to hold to their opinion. Trying to educate someone who doesn’t want to be educated is an exercise in futility. You might was well beat your head against a brick wall, you’ll get the same results. The trouble starts when they try enforce that opinion either physcially or statutorially (thru laws). ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/194 "2000-10-13T16:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Polycarp** _ > > So let me throw that question open for the assembled gay-i-tude: what’s your stance on the traditional religious beliefs? And why? Note that it ought to be pretty obvious to everyone what you think when the Jerry Falwells of the world start condemning gays – and decent Christians should be standing by you, not him, IMHO. But how about the day-to-day situations? Are you offended that people say, “I think it’s wrong, but I believe in live and let live” or words to that effect? Does that seem like a sort of disguised judgmentalism? Or do you accept it as something right for them, not for you? Or what? As my dear, dear **matt\_mcl** enlightened me once, Francis Maude once said, “It’s always seemed to me rather pointless to disapprove of homosexuality. It’s like disapproving of rain.” (And Lea Delaria once said, “What do you mean you don’t believe in homosexuality? It’s not like the Easter Bunny; your belief isn’t necessary.”) So on the one hand, how can I take offense when people disagree with rain? It’s stupid, it’s pointless, but it’s hardly important. But then, on the other hand… not. By saying, “I don’t agree with homosexuality,” there is an inference, either intended or not (based on the culture we live in), that there’s a moral judgement going on, and it rankles me. Sure they have a right to believe what they want, no matter how foolish that belief really is. Then there’s the whole issue of their foolishness helping shape public policy… {shudder} Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/195 "2000-10-14T00:56:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*Yes, but me naked in bed with you… mmm… (C’mon, boy - _flirt_ for chrissake!) > > Interesting study on twins. I had thought the correlation was much higher, but I hadn’t read all the research data, which is interesting in and of itself. > > Esprix \*\* _places hand on Esprix’s upper thigh and squeezes “reassuringly”_ I’m sorry dear, why dont we sneak off to some secluded corner and i’ll make it up to you. 🙂 It was interesting. There may have been a new study done, since the one it was referring to was done in '91, but that was what I pulled up with a quick search on EBSCO Host. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/196 "2000-10-14T02:30:52Z")
The Gay Guy wrote: > [@](#): > > As my dear, dear **matt\_mcl** enlightened me once, Francis Maude once said, “It’s always seemed to me rather pointless to disapprove of homosexuality. It’s like disapproving of rain.” Just for the record, I **hate** it when it rains. I’m like the Wicked Witch of the West; I’ll melt or something. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/197 "2000-10-14T14:06:49Z")
An acquaintance of mine once told me he didn’t believe in bisexuals. I looked around for a moment, perplexed, and said, “Welp, I’m still here.” I know no one else has a handle on this **either** , but I have NEVER been able to grasp why it’s anyone else’s business who I find sexually attractive, and with whom I follow through. I just don’t get it. Haven’t really added anything to the discussion, but hey… ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Doctor\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2000, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/198 "2000-10-15T17:27:26Z")
That’s hilarious: people "not believing in " bisexuals and homosexuality! "They’re figments of a deranged society, and if I just close my eyes and hum real loud, they simply **won’t be there!!** _Poof! (Pun intended) All the people whose sex lives differ from mine have now been eliminated. Now I can ignore the disturbing notion that I might ever, in any way shape or form, be even remotely attracted to a member of the same sex._ It’s all about fear: if it’s okay to admit attractions, and even (horrors!) act upon them occasionally, it messes with the cultural order of things, especially the notion that any man who admits any attraction to men ever in his life is gay. It scares people about their friends and neighbors, and it scares them about their own thoughts and feelings. A terrifying, chaotic world where there are too many choices and Ozzie and Harriet are both six feet under, and _everybody’s_ a little worried about the Beaver… ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2000, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/199 "2000-10-15T17:47:54Z")
Yesterday, I was talking to someone who could certainly be considered a bit of a fundamentalist(a nice enough guy overall, though), and he mentioned that the study that “proved” that homosexuality is genetically determined was seriously flawed. I was under the impression that there were several studies on this, and that it was pretty well accepted that homosexuality is genetically determined. Could one of you who is knowledgeable in this area enlighten me as to the current state of scientific research in this area? I believe he said the study he was referring to was done at Stanford. On another note, I seem to recall that both Bush and Gore support allowing openly gay people to serve in the military. Since I’ll be in the Navy soon enough, this could have some impact on my life. Am I remembering things correctly? Is it likely that during my time in the Navy, I’ll actually be serving with people who are openly gay? The idea of one day everyone in the military being free to come out is rather interesting. ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2000, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/200 "2000-10-15T17:58:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > So let me throw that question open for the assembled gay-i-tude: what’s your stance on the traditional religious beliefs? And why? I’m a live and let live person. It’s not that important that everyone to agree with me. If we can reach a happy middle ground where we agree to disagree and live peacably, then that’s great. Why? Because I know that to a religious person, his religion is more important to him, than my right to spend life with a woman. So if his faith is strong, and I choose to push and push, then his religion will always win out in his mind. This would be an exercise in futility for me and feeling of beseigement for him. We’d both live in condition of constant agitation and the potential for a nice pleasant friendship would be ruined. Life is short, and there’s so much more to accomplish than being right. Note: Just as a I agree that I shouldn’t dictate to someone that they hold my opinions, they shouldn’t be able to legislate that I live by their religious beliefs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021.md?page=11)