# Ask the Gay Guy III! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2000, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021 "2000-09-21T17:33:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/161 "2000-10-09T13:42:31Z")
WHo were some of the first “famous” people to come out? The first I can remember was Quesntin Crisp on some talk show. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/162 "2000-10-09T15:45:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **JeffB** _ > > The college where I work has what’s called “Diva Night” – basically it’s a drag dance for the entire student body. What do you think about this type of event? Although it’s organized by a gay/lesbian/bi-sexual student group, most of the participants are straight. Wow, that’s new. I would suppose it would depend on the campus, the students, the prevalent attitude and the presentation of the event. > [@](#): > > I have to say that I’m new here, so I have no idea how the event is actually presented or perceived. Find out - I for one would be interested to know. What school? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/163 "2000-10-09T15:59:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Doobieous** _ > > My twin (straight)… Mmmm… **Doobieous** twin… two Doobieii {Homer Simpson hungry noises} 😉 Begs the question - fraternal or identical? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![shammie919](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@shammie919](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shammie919)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/164 "2000-10-09T16:02:12Z")
I have to agree with vix…as a bisexual, it’s really great to see openness and erspect coming through instead of flames and fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/165 "2000-10-09T16:02:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Hastur** _ > > But, even I’ve been gay bashed by some stupid kids(don’t worry… they got a huge can of WhupAss™ opened on them legally and physically). Did you already tell this story? > [@](#): > > I saw the most liberating thing about coming out being the fact that there was no longer a true expectation of what I was supposed to be and therefore could make myself into an image of what I wanted to be. I think it takes strength and integrity to follow one’s own concept of self rather than be pigeonholed into what everyone else thinks you should be. > > Liberation isn’t just the freedom to love who you want, but to form your own identity without being perjured for it. Testify, brother - and amen. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/166 "2000-10-09T16:05:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Eyke** _ > > OH, BTW, I _do_ own a pair of dike boots! 😃 You have boots specifically designed for dikes? What, are they waterproof? Do they have a special attachment to stick in holes in case there’s a leak? Perhaps you and our resident clog boy **Coldfire** should get together and exchange tips. {Everybody else - wait for it…} Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/167 "2000-10-09T16:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **vanilla** _ > > WHo were some of the first “famous” people to come out? > The first I can remember was Quesntin Crisp on some talk show. Oh, **Eve** , my darling - little help? 😉 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/168 "2000-10-09T16:46:08Z")
The punch line to the joke that derives from that last little witticism by Esprix is, of course, “She decked him.” I want to suggest that the idea that **individuality** is what it’s all about, which various posters have approached, makes a lot of sense to me. I noted waterj2 commenting something about the idea of “it’s not a choice” acting to prohibit him from giving matt\_mcl a blowjob if he should choose to do so. I’d like very much to see the day when the “gay movement” shuts down – because it’s not needed any more. When people are content to be precisely themselves. I knew my wife (not in the Biblical sense, of course;)) since well before puberty, and we’ve been happy together for 13 years of on-and-off courtship and 25+ years of marriage. But at age 42 I met a 17-year-old straight boy who became the deepest emotional relationship of my life. And aside from the romance/sex component, which was not an issue for us, it has had every aspect of a deep love relationship. (And as a result, with the empathy that I seem to have developed over the years, I had to rethink deeply what being gay meant – the result has been the things that I have posted over the past few months on the subject.) But where would you classify me in that picture? Where would you put waterj2? Where would you assign Snark? What about slythe? And why bother classifying us? Isn’t it enough that we are people, just like you? Pigeonholes are for pigeons. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/169 "2000-10-09T16:54:06Z")
Coo, I say. Coo. 😉 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/170 "2000-10-09T16:55:52Z")
😛 That was perhaps the most coo-coo remark I’ve ever heard you make – well, seen you post! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/171 "2000-10-09T17:40:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\* > Pigeonholes are for pigeons. > > \*\* That’ll make a great t-shirt. Right up there which the “Closets are for clothing” shirts, Marvin got us at the MMOW. 🙂 Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/172 "2000-10-09T19:23:51Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Esprix \* \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Hastur** _ > > But, even I’ve been gay bashed by some stupid kids(don’t worry… they got a huge can of WhupAss™ opened on them legally and physically). Did you already tell this story? No, I haven’t really shared the specifics, I’ve just mentioned once in the past that it happened. For Esprix and others, here is what happened. I live in Corvallis, Oregon, home of Oregon State University. 50,000 people and the home of Hewlett Packard. On a Friday morning in 1997, I was going to a business meeting at the local public library because I was going to be designing their website. There were some teenagers on my path bothering people and they tried to get in my way. I quickly walked around them and they called me a fag. I replied to them: “And your point is?” and kept walking to my appointment. After my meeting, which was two hours later, I was going back home. It was 12:30 in the afternoon and I was walking through the park to get back home so I could work. The kids had migrated there. They started shouting after me things like “Hey faggot.” I turned on them and said how pathetic it was on their second day of spring vacation that they were harassing adults and they needed lives. They followed after me and began spitting on me. I turned on them and doused the lot with a nearly full 32 oz Coke. Then I said: “Now that’s funny.” I walked across the street from the park and then this 16 year old girl who was 5’2" gets in my 6’4" way and starts saying: “What’s your problem, faggot?” Everytime I tried to walk around her, she got back in front of me and then started swinging on me. She kept missing until finally she connected and then I backhanded her to get her away from me. That was when her six male friends jumped on me. The nine year old grabbed my glasses and ground them into the concrete. Then the rest attempted to beat me into submission. I kicked one in the chest and fended the rest off the best I could until the police showed up. There were plenty of witnesses. Plenty. The ringleader was caught and I prosecuted them on the Oregon Hate Crimes statute. They recieved court ordered therapy, sensitivity training, and two years of probation, as well as an order to stay fifty feet away from me at all times. The ringleader tried to claim she wasn’t a homophobe and that she never said anything homophobic. I pointed out to the judge that as the park was two blocks away from the courthouse, that had he been the one walking through the park, that he could have been on the recieving end of what I endured. I was nervous for weeks afterward, and held on to a pepper spray can whenever I left the house for a few months. Ironically, as I have lived in a few major cities across the country, it was only here that I had anyone be bold enough to attack me. After the glasses incident, I rarely leave the house wearing them and put in my contacts no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/173 "2000-10-09T21:19:23Z")
coo-coo pigeonholes, a great name for a band! ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/174 "2000-10-10T03:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **Begs the question - fraternal or identical?** Hehe, fraternal (thank god!) ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/175 "2000-10-10T04:32:59Z")
A few things. First an opinion: I think a problem is that kids (well, at least 10 years ago) were/are not educated enough about homosexuality. I remember when I was 12, I found out my uncle was gay (even though it was PAINFULLY obvious, he had been living with a man for as long as I remember), I sat down and sobbed. Of course, now I am totally accepting. It’s my own opinion that noone can be totally straight or gay. Sexuality just is not black and white. Now, for my questions: A few of my friends have come out to me lately. Also, a friend of mine is sort of starting a move from bi towards lesbian. What can I do to help them? I mean, beyond just being there and being a friend. Any advice on that? 2nd: One thing I’ve never understood is what there are stereotypical gay guys. My uncle certainly isn’t, but another one of my friends is so flamboyantly gay… it’s just amazing. I can’t think that your sexual orientation would make you talk with a lisp and stuff like that, so why is it going on? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/176 "2000-10-10T14:17:56Z")
**Hastur** , that story sucks, but I’m glad you were in a position to follow through and make a difference. You ever see them after all that? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Doobieous** _ > > Hehe, fraternal (thank god!) Maybe for you, but the thought of being between two **Doobieii** … {drool drool drool} 😉 Also explains why he’s straight and you’re queer. Isn’t there an extremely high correlation between identicals? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/177 "2000-10-10T14:24:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **LaurAnge** _ > > A few of my friends have come out to me lately. Also, a friend of mine is sort of starting a move from bi towards lesbian. What can I do to help them? I mean, beyond just being there and being a friend. Any advice on that? There is nothing to be done beyond just being there. Just by being their friend, no matter what, makes a huge difference. I might also counsel patience - coming out can be a time of huge changes, so bear with 'em. Things will eventually even out for the better. > [@](#): > > 2nd: One thing I’ve never understood is what there are stereotypical gay guys. My uncle certainly isn’t, but another one of my friends is so flamboyantly gay… it’s just amazing. I can’t think that your sexual orientation would make you talk with a lisp and stuff like that, so why is it going on? This has been discussed quite a bit in the two previous **Gay Guy** threads, but much of what was discussed was the fact that gay men and lesbians, once they come out, can oftimes feel more free to express themselves than they could when they were in the closet, so they go all out and be themselves. Sometimes, however, it is only one stage in the coming out/sexual orientation identity development process; sometimes, though, that is just simply who they are, and they are quite comfortable being so. The point is the gay community (in general - there are always exceptions) feels to many people to be a place much less strict in gender and sexuality roles, and more accepting of those who are different from mainstream heterosexual society. Trust me, there are lots of “flaming” straight men, but they don’t feel comfortable expressing themselves in today’s straight community (well, except on Halloween, of course). Ask **SkySlash** - the poor boy is himself, yet can’t seem to find a girl, 'cause they all think he’s _gay_, but he’s not (much to my chagrin). Oh, and a happy birthday to you, fellow Libran. Surely sharing the same birthday as me means _some_thing in the Great Grand Scheme of Things™. 😉 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/178 "2000-10-10T14:58:08Z")
Oh, by the way, I got interviewed by the folks from “The Daily Show” while at Gaylaxicon, the annual GLBT science fiction convention, this past weekend in Washington, DC. It ought to be aired sometime during the week of October 16, but they will let me know the exact date. (I started a MPSIMS thread if you want to comment, but I just figured I’d let y’all know here as well.) Carry on. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/179 "2000-10-11T01:34:04Z")
OK, people, I need some advice. I talk to a guy on IM and I have always been pretty sure he is gay (60 year old single guy, never married, no kids, and collects stuffed animals). Recently, he posted a picture of himself wearing a Provincetown T-shirt. Now as a radically left-leaning liberal, I have no problem with his sexual orientation but should this be considered his way of “outing” himself and should I let him know that this is OK with me, or wait until he makes it even more obvious. Second, I was watching the movie “In and Out” and I thought it stereotyped gay men. It basically said that if a man liked to dance or was neat or liked Streisand he was gay. I am a straight female, so I would like to know if the gay guys here see it the same way and are you offended? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Doctor\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021/180 "2000-10-11T05:23:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by psychobunny \* > It basically said that if a man liked to dance or was neat or liked Streisand he was gay. I am a straight female, so I would like to know if the gay guys here see it the same way and are you offended? Hope that quote thingie worked; it’s my first post, but y’all seem to be a lively bunch, so… I personally find those broad stereotypes more amusing than offensive, because they’re _SO_ not even close to the gay man that I am at 39 years of age. It’s the same as has been discussed here (apparently for centuries, from the number of sequels!): those ideas of how fags are supposed to act are completely outdated and unreliable, and therefore can now be used in a humorous context. At least I _hope_ we’ve evolved enough as humans to be able to laugh at ourselves, even if we’ve suffered greater indignations than yer standard-issue HET-TROW has… Besides, if you can laugh at yourself first, you ruin it for your enemies and take away their ammunition… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy-iii/34021.md?page=10)