# Ask the Gay Guy! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100 "2000-03-02T17:53:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/201 "2000-03-24T01:22:00Z")
The Gay Guy wrote: > [@](#): > > Ask him with the knowledge that if he’s gay, he’ll very politely say no, and that obviously has nothing to do with you Although Ms. Germain does have a point. When you ask somebody out, you’re essentially laying your cards on the table. It can be quite a risk – especially if you’re asking out a co-worker or some other kind of person you’re going to run into on a daily basis. (Co-workers are even more risky, due to the slight but real chance that the co-worker will feel uncomfortable and may misinterpret subsequent friendliness as sexual harrassment.) I find it _far_ preferable to figure out, without actually taking the risk of asking out the woman I’m interested in, whether this woman is available and _might_ be willing to go out with me. F’rinstance, if I see a ring on her left ringfinger, I say to myself, “Aha! She’s married,” and she need never know that I had the hots for her. So maybe StGermain could just ask her vet something more innocuous, like whether he likes broadway musicals. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/202 "2000-03-24T01:44:00Z")
**Esprix, Otto, Tracer** - I’m not a terribly self-confident person, thus the “minimizing risk” thing. He did at one time engage me in a long conversation about how he didn’t like eating alone, the pain of cooking for one. Then he asked if I ever tried a local chinese place. I told him I used to eat there until I saw a roach on their buffet. It wasn’t until I was driving home that I thought that maybe he was leading somewhere. Remember, I’m flirting impaired. Sorry to hijack the thread. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/203 "2000-03-24T01:57:00Z")
Ooh! Ooh! I just thought of an on-topic question. **Dear Gay Guy,** I know the Nazis forced homosexuals to wear pink triangles during World War II (much in the same way that they forced jews to wear yellow stars of David). I also know that the pink triangle is now regarded as a symbol of gay pride, in defiance of the Nazi practice. But from my (admittedly faulty) memory, it also seems that the use of the pink triangle as a gay pride symbol didn’t start until the late 1980s, long after the rainbow had been identified with gay rights even by “mainstream” news sources. So, my question is: Was it that one scene in Mel Brooks’ _To Be or Not To Be_ that brought the pink triangle into the gay public consciousness? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/204 "2000-03-24T02:00:00Z")
Oh, and StGermain: Sounds like he’s totally hot for you. Start looking around for where you want to have the wedding. (Okay, I’m kidding. But, seriously, it does sound like he either (A) wants to go out with you on a date, or (B) wants to go out with you as a friend.) ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/205 "2000-03-24T03:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by StGermain: > He did at one time engage me in a long conversation about how he didn’t like eating alone, the pain of cooking for one. Then he asked if I ever tried a local chinese place. I told him I used to eat there until I saw a roach on their buffet. It wasn’t until I was driving home that I thought that maybe he was leading somewhere. Remember, I’m flirting impaired. St. Germain, I am severely flirting impaired. When the clue bus hits me, it’s gotta back up and run over me a few times before I even begin to get it. But when he complains about eating alone and mentions a resturant, **that’s a clue.** Go for it! –Bill ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/206 "2000-03-24T04:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > was that neccessary? Yes. Yes it was. Absolutely necessary to the survival of the human species, and you’d better be damn glad I said it, missy, or you’d be typing from a smoking crater right about now. It was a **joke.** Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/207 "2000-03-24T04:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So, my question is: Was it that one scene in Mel Brooks’ To Be or Not To Be that brought the pink triangle into the gay public consciousness? It’s what brought it into my consciousness, in fact. I was something like 14 when that movie was released and it was the first time I had heard that homosexuals were rounded up by the Nazis. The pink triangle as a symbol of gay pride was first used, according to _Completely Queer: the Gay and Lesbian Encyclopedia_, in the 70s. The example offered is its use by a “‘coalition of conscience’ study group within the New York Civil Liberties Union to stress opposition to bigotry while fighting for municipal civil rights legislation.” Traditionally the triangle was point down. When ACT UP adopted the slogan “silence=death” for whatever reason they flipped the triangle point up. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/208 "2000-03-24T16:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Esprix** : > > some lesbians I know are kind of _mysogynistic_, so it tends to color their view of the world. > > Originally posted by **Alpine** : > > (italics mine) > > Doesn’t anyone have a cute remark to make? **D’oh!** Wrong word. What’s the word for “dislike of \*men]/i]?” And apologies to Our Goode Moderator for the multiple posts. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/209 "2000-03-24T16:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **tracer** : > > When you ask somebody out, you’re essentially laying your cards on the table. It can be quite a risk… > > I find it _far_ preferable to figure out, without actually taking the risk of asking out the woman I’m interested in, whether this woman is available and _might_ be willing to go out with me… True enough, but it also sounds like this guy’s fishing for info from _her_. 🙂 > [@](#): > > So maybe StGermain could just ask her vet something more innocuous, like whether he likes broadway musicals. ;)\*\* This worked for me, once - there was a guy I thought was flirting with me at my bank, and while he was cashing a check we were chit-chatting, so I purposely mentioned I’d been to Woody’s for Halloween, which is Philly’s premiere gay bar. “Oooooooooh…” he says. {wink} It’s an idea. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/210 "2000-03-24T16:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **StGermain** : > > I’m not a terribly self-confident person, thus the “minimizing risk” thing. You gotta get over that, IMHO. 🙂 > [@](#): > > He did at one time engage me in a long conversation about how he didn’t like eating alone, the pain of cooking for one. Then he asked if I ever tried a local chinese place. I told him I used to eat there until I saw a roach on their buffet. It wasn’t until I was driving home that I thought that maybe he was leading somewhere. Remember, I’m flirting impaired. **{DING!}** Somebody give this lady a clue… and then ask him out, dammit! Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/211 "2000-03-24T16:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Esprix: > \*\* **D’oh!** Wrong word. What’s the word for “dislike of \*men]/i]?” > > And apologies to Our Goode Moderator for the multiple posts. > > Esprix > \*\* The correct term for a person who dislikes men is _Lilith Fair Folk Singer._😃 ## Seriously, it’s _misandrist_; the more commonly heard _misanthrope_ refers to a person who hates all humankind. Live a Lush Life Da Chef ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/212 "2000-03-24T16:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **tracer** : > > **Dear Gay Guy,** > > I know the Nazis forced homosexuals to wear pink triangles during World War II (much in the same way that they forced jews to wear yellow stars of David). I also know that the pink triangle is now regarded as a symbol of gay pride, in defiance of the Nazi practice. > > But from my (admittedly faulty) memory, it also seems that the use of the pink triangle as a gay pride symbol didn’t start until the late 1980s, long after the rainbow had been identified with gay rights even by “mainstream” news sources. > > So, my question is: Was it that one scene in Mel Brooks’ _To Be or Not To Be_ that brought the pink triangle into the gay public consciousness?\*\* My understanding has always been that in the beginning of the gay rights movement the lambda was chosen as a symbol, but it didn’t catch on. Then the pink triangle was reclaimed for its historical value, but some deemed it too oppressive. Eventually, the rainbow flag caught on for being more positive. From [http://cygnus.uwa.edu.au/~zeddicus:](http://cygnus.uwa.edu.au/~zeddicus:) > [@](#): > > The lambda was first chosen as a gay symbol when it was adopted in 1970 by the New York Gay Activists Alliance. It became the symbol of their growing movement of gay liberation. In 1974, the lambda was subsequently adopted by the International Gay Rights Congress held in Edinburgh, Scotland. As their symbol for lesbian and gay rights, the lambda became internationally popular… > > In the 1970’s, gay liberation groups resurrected the pink triangle as a popular symbol for the gay rights movement. Not only is the symbol easily recognised, but it draws attention to oppression and persecution – then and now. In the 1980’s, ACT-UP (AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power) began using the pink triangle for their cause. They inverted the symbol, making it point up, to signify an active fight back rather than a passive resignation to fate. Today, for many the pink triangle represents pride, solidarity, and a promise to never allow another Holocaust to happen again… > > Use of the rainbow flag by the gay community began in 1978 when it first appeared in the San Francisco Gay and Lesbian Freedom Day Parade. Borrowing symbolism from the hippie movement and black civil rights groups, San Francisco artist Gilbert Baker designed the rainbow flag in response to a need for a symbol that could be used year after year. Baker and thirty volunteers hand-stitched and hand-dyed two huge prototype flags for the parade. The flags had eight stripes, each colour representing a component of the community: hot pink for sex, red for life, orange for healing, yellow for sun, green for nature, turquoise for art, indigo for harmony, and violet for spirit. > > The next year Baker approached San Francisco Paramount Flag Company to mass-produce rainbow flags for the 1979 parade. Due to production constraints – such as the fact that hot pink was not a commercially-available colour – pink and turquoise were removed from the design, and royal blue replaced indigo. This six-colour version spread from San Francisco to other cities, and soon became the widely-known symbol of gay pride and diversity it is today. It is even officially recognised by the International Congress of Flag Makers. In 1994, a huge 30-foot-wide by one-mile-long rainbow flag was carried by 10,000 people in New York’s Stonewall 25 Parade. Personally, I wear the pink triangle to remember my history, and the rainbow to remind me of my pride today. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/213 "2000-03-24T17:55:00Z")
Hmmm … why lambda? Was this the letter the ancient Hellenistic Greeks used to signify the acceptible practice of male homosexuality in their own time? ---
**Author:** ![quadell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/b9bd4f/32.png) [@quadell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quadell)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/214 "2000-03-25T06:18:00Z")
I’m \trying\ to start an Urban Legend that the government secretly started the trend of rainbow stickers, to facilitate rounding them up into camps later. Think it’ll catch on? (Just kidding!) Your Quadell ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/215 "2000-03-24T19:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **tracer** : > > Hmmm … why lambda? Was this the letter the ancient Hellenistic Greeks used to signify the acceptible practice of male homosexuality in their own time? That was kind of what my impression was, but the same web site writes this: > [@](#): > > No one seems to have a definitive answer why the lambda was originally chosen as a gay symbol. Some suggest that it is simply the Greek lower-case letter l for liberation. Others disagree, citing the use of lambda in physics to denote energy (the energy we have when we work in concert) or wavelength (are gays and lesbians on a different wavelength?). Lambda may also denote the synergy of the gay movement, the idea that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The lambda also may represent scales and balance, and the constant force that keeps opposing sides from overcoming each other – the hook at the bottom of the right leg signifies the action needed to reach and maintain balance. The ancient Greek Spartans regarded the lambda to mean unity, while the Romans considered it “the light of knowledge shed into the darkness of ignorance.” > > Whatever the exact meaning and origin, the lambda originally embodied a fairly militant connotation. Today, the symbol generally denotes lesbian’s and gay men’s concerns together. Although the lambda was never intended to be linked to any specific gender or orientation such as other symbols may be, historically this is not so: In the early 1970’s the Los Angeles gay community created a flag with a lavender lambda on a simple white background. They hoped the flag would catch on to other cities, but their hopes were denied because some saw the lambda as a male symbol only. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/216 "2000-03-24T19:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **quadell** : > > I’m \trying\ to start an Urban Legend that the government secretly started the trend of rainbow stickers, to facilitate rounding them up into camps later. Think it’ll catch on? You’re weird… Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/217 "2000-03-24T20:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Hmmm … why lambda? I’ve read all the stories Esprix notes in response, but as it happens just last night read this in a new book, _Out for Good: The Struggle to Build a Gay Rights Movement in America._\* In an entry titled April 1970, New York: > [@](#): > > Tom Doerr, a blond graphics designer, came up with the idea of the Lambda, the eleventh letter in the Greek lowercase alphabet, after rejecting the head of a fighting cock or an eagle out of concern that it would alienate women. The Lambda became the decade’s most familiar symbol for gay liberation (it would be eclipsed by an upside-down pink triangle by the end of the 1970s). One GAA [Gay Activists Alliance] leaflet reported that the Lambda was chosen because it “symbolizes a complete exchange of energy – that moment or span of time witness to absolute activity” in chemistry and physics, a bit of GAA lore that was completely fanciful. Doerr chose the Lambda, with its sleek downward sloping line leading to a front foot kicking upwards, because he thought it was pretty. One “graphics queen’s decision,” as [GAA member] Arthur Evans later put it, gained political legitimacy. So once more, in the eternal battle of style versus substance, style triumphs. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/218 "2000-03-24T21:26:00Z")
Interestingly, back before the 1970s, LISP programmers sometimes referred to themselves as “Knights of the Lambda Calculus.” (The Lambda Calculus is a mathematical formalism invented by Alonzo Church, with which LISP is intimately connected. I do not know when Church invented the Lambda Calculus.) ---
**Author:** ![quadell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/b9bd4f/32.png) [@quadell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quadell)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/219 "2000-03-25T05:50:00Z")
Gay Guy, What sort of things do you find attractive in a guy? And do you think these are similar to what most breeder women find attractive in men? Your Quadell P.S. Sorry about the urban legends thing. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100/220 "2000-03-25T19:05:00Z")
what does the lambada have to go with being gay? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-gay-guy/18100.md?page=12)