# Ask the guy who is pretty good at SF Story Identification **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [September 7, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417 "2008-09-07T00:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1661 "2025-03-19T16:19:03Z")
That must be where I heard about it! Thanks for the quick reply, @Peter_Morris! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1662 "2025-03-19T22:07:57Z")
Whereas if I turn my head a bit to the left, I can just read the title right off of the book on one of my bookshelves. Annoying to get one of these questions I actually know, and see someone else beat me to it. The story itself, meanwhile, is just as bad as you’re imagining. Unless you’re not imagining it as completely awful; then it’s worse. If this is typical of Pohl’s writing, I’m not sure how he ever became a Big Name in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1663 "2025-03-19T22:11:42Z")
Pohl wrote a lot, most of it quite good (though some dated). “Starburst” isn’t his best. If you want to take a look at a short story that I’m fond of, you could try [“Day Million”](https://www.baen.com/Chapters/9781451637892/9781451637892___9.htm) or [“The Tunnel Under the World”](https://www.baen.com/Chapters/9781451637892/9781451637892___3.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1664 "2025-03-20T14:03:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If this is typical of Pohl’s writing, I’m not sure how he ever became a Big Name in the field. The original _[Gateway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_(novel))_ books were pretty good, and bought him a lot of good will. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1665 "2025-03-23T18:36:32Z")
Agreed. _Gateway_ is a bit dated now (as to the oil crisis and the long-predicted geopolitical rise of Brazil, off the top of my head), but has a really cool premise and a powerful ending. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1666 "2025-03-25T15:26:02Z")
The thread on Alan Turing reminded me of this one. Short story, probably 1970s-ish. The main characters are a mathematical genius, the woman he lives with, and a young boy. The woman is living with the genius to help hide the fact that he’s gay, to shield him from persecution. The genius takes the young boy under his wing, not to groom him like society would fear, but because the boy also has a great deal of mathematical aptitude, and he wants to teach him. IIRC, the mathematics in question involves higher dimensions, which the boy is able to visualize much more easily than adults, and they end up building a device that can send and/or receive transmissions from higher-dimensional creatures. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1667 "2025-03-25T15:31:33Z")
Greg Bear - Tangents > **[Tangents](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/340807.Tangents)** > > Multi-award winning author Greg Bear established himsel… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1668 "2025-03-25T22:00:34Z")
Yup, thanks, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1669 "2025-04-14T01:31:09Z")
I mentioned this in another thread, and it was suggested that I bring it over here for possible identification. What I posted in the other thread: > – I can’t think of the name of the author, or of most of the story: but I once read a science fiction piece in which the humans were at war with members of another species, and the other species had animal assistants, rather like we have dogs. Turned out the assistants were the descendants of infant survivors of an earlier portion of the war, taken captive but without any adult humans or older children; they’d developed in such a fashion that their captors never realized that they were potentially sapient. and I’ll add that the story ended with the humans having taken some captives of the other species, and those captives wondering what they themselves are going to turn into now that they’re separated from their society. – at least, unless I’m remembering bits of two different stories, which is possible. This isn’t something new, but I don’t remember when I read it other than that it was some years ago, and I don’t know whether it was new then. I can’t remember whether it was a short story or a novella; I don’t think it was a full length book but am not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1670 "2025-04-14T01:36:59Z")
There’s a certain similarity to the Chtorr books - though that’s probably not it ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1671 "2025-04-14T01:48:56Z")
I just took a fast look at the Wikipedia description of the Chtorr books, and probably not. I don’t remember what the aliens looked like, but I don’t think they were worms; and I think that the story wasn’t set on Earth, but on at least one other planet, maybe more than one, and/or on spaceships. And the humans presenting as non-sapient were that way specifically because they’d been separated from other humans as infants or very young children. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1672 "2025-04-14T02:19:38Z")
Sounds vaguely like a book I saw the back cover synopsis of but never read: humans have been at war with an alien species of reptiles similar to dragons for so long that the humans now have “domesticated” versions of the dragons, about the same as the comparison of dogs to wolves– and likewise, the alien dragons have similarly tamed humans. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1673 "2025-04-14T02:32:17Z")
That sounds closer to it. But I gather you don’t remember title or author or name of the book any more than I do. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1674 "2025-04-14T02:38:33Z")
Is it _The Mount_ by Carol Emshwiller?: > **[The Mount (novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mount_(novel))** > > The Mount is a 2002 science fantasy novel by Carol Emshwiller. It won the Philip K. Dick Award in 2002, and was also nominated for the Nebula Award for Best Novel in 2003. > The author was inspired to write The Mount after she took a class in the psychology of prey animals. After the class, Emshwiller wondered what it would be like if a smart prey animal rode a predator. The idea fascinated her enough to write a short story which became The Mount. > The first-person narrator, Charley, is a youn... ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1675 "2025-04-14T02:57:19Z")
Nope. Looks interesting, but definitely not it. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1676 "2025-04-14T03:13:11Z")
I could swear that I read something like that by Jack Vance, my brain insists that it was “The last Castle” or “The Dragon Masters”, but reading the description in wikipedia they don’t seem to match. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1677 "2025-04-14T03:23:28Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > “The Dragon Masters” I think that’s it. Though most of that description I don’t remember at all, and some parts of it I remember differently; but there are some parts that fit my memory perfectly. Maybe I’m remembering the book I wish it had been, or the ideas it made me think of, mixed up with bits of the actual book? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1678 "2025-04-14T03:39:01Z")
I’m not sure which story @thorny_locust is looking for but “The Dragon Masters” sounds very much like the one I half-remember. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1679 "2025-04-14T05:41:10Z")
Discussed a year ago in this thread. > [@Ask the guy who is pretty good at SF Story Identification](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1490): > > That sounds like Vance’s “The Dragon Masters” However this Does not. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1680 "2025-04-14T13:36:17Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Discussed a year ago in this thread. And I even commented on it; with a comment that makes it clear I was thinking of the same book. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@teelabrown](#): > > > > I don’t remember much, but some alien race had captured humans long ago and bred them to be service animals. The human breeds were as unalike from each other as different dog breeds, and they were used as pack animals, riding animals, etc. > > Oh, that’s familiar. But I can’t place it. – had they maybe come across some human children who had survived a disaster, but were feral due to lack of adults to raise them, and therefore took them to be non-sapient? But the thing that doesn’t appear to match, at least according to the Wikipedia article, is that part about the children being raised without human adults. I wonder whether I did stick that into my memory from some other story entirely? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417.md?page=85)