# Ask the guy who is pretty good at SF Story Identification **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [September 7, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417 "2008-09-07T00:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1681 "2025-04-14T17:27:04Z")
It seems that somebody is going to have to bit the bullet and read “The Dragon Masters” again, I’ll put in my TBR list for after I finish the last Commander Vimes Discworld book. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1682 "2025-04-14T17:36:34Z")
Not in my local library system; and I don’t think it’s on my shelves, though I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1683 "2025-04-14T18:08:16Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > that part about the children being raised without human adults. I wonder whether I did stick that into my memory from some other story entirely? The only work I know of that has that plot point is “Voyage From Yesteryear” by James P. Hogan. A colony was established at Alpha Centauri by robots artificially incubating and raising children from gene banks in artificial wombs. Generations later technology has advanced enough for adult colonists to make the journey from Earth and they find that the Chironians, raised without any preconceived mores from human nurturers, have developed a completely anarchist society. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1684 "2025-04-14T22:53:15Z")
Something like that happens in _Arkwright_ (by Allen Steele) - a colony ship with embryos and robots. It’s the plan, too, in Vinge’s “Longshot” (though we don’t see how it turns out) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1685 "2025-04-14T23:44:40Z")
_T[he Genesis Quest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Genesis_Quest)_ also has the same idea. The humans in the novel and its sequel were raised by the highly nonhuman Nar in another galaxy. They were recreated from data sent by “Original Man” in the Milky Way. Also they have limited access to human culture at first because the Nar are very slow in decoding and translating the admittedly large amount of data; with natural lifespans of a thousand years they tend to take their time with things. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1686 "2025-04-15T12:56:08Z")
I vaguely remember a story like that where a lizardman species was dominant and humans were at a prehistoric level of civilization. A human boy in captivity manages to learn how to communicate with them, and they realize that humans are sentient. Eventually, of course, he grows up, hooks up with other humans, and overthrows the lizard people who turn out to be vulnerable to fire. Probably not the same story as yours, though. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1687 "2025-04-15T12:58:39Z")
Saw something like that. The humans lived in the Arctic. Don’t remember much. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1688 "2025-04-15T13:37:57Z")
West of Eden by Harry Harrison? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1689 "2025-04-15T14:12:47Z")
Damn, you’re pretty good at SF story identification. That’s the bunny. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1690 "2025-04-15T14:18:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Probably not the same story as yours, though. Definitely not. But the idea of other species having trouble identifying sapience in humans does show up in various versions in multiple works. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1691 "2025-04-15T14:20:16Z")
Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1692 "2025-04-15T14:26:01Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Definitely not. But the idea of other species having trouble identifying sapience in humans does show up in various versions in multiple works. Bertram Chandler’s short story “The Cage” is a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1693 "2025-04-15T14:35:14Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > West of Eden by Harry Harrison? Damnit, I finally had one, but came in an hour too late! ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1694 "2025-04-15T14:45:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Bertram Chandler’s short story “The Cage” Is that the one where the end line is approximately only intelligent beings put other beings in cages? If so, yeah, that’s one of the ones I was thinking of. An otherwise rather stupid and obnoxious story (did it ever occur to any of them to ask the woman who she wants to partner with?) which redeems itself with that last line. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1695 "2025-04-15T14:58:31Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > An otherwise rather stupid and obnoxious story That story seems horribly sexist even for its time. I’m not sure the ending redeems it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1696 "2025-04-15T14:58:58Z")
Yes, it’s one of those punchline stories as so many of them were at the time. But it’s a good punchline. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1697 "2025-04-15T15:03:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > That story seems horribly sexist even for its time. I’m not sure the ending redeems it “Redeems” is probably the wrong word. Makes it worth reading, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1698 "2025-04-15T16:01:29Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > the idea of other species having trouble identifying sapience in humans does show up in various versions in multiple works. And in a story most people won’t know of from the original French novel “Oms en série”, much more famously adapted as the animated movie released in the USA titled “Fantastic Planet”. ETA: The giant aliens live for millennia and are so advanced that they’re basically a _post_-interstellar civilization; they mainly interact with other similarly advanced civilizations by hyperspace telepathy. While feral humans deprived of education and access to machines are little better than clever animals; by the giants’ standards humans are a hive species, only displaying intelligence in the aggregate. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1699 "2025-04-15T16:21:27Z")
So basically this: [![](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1741372188-20250307.png) ](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1741372188-20250307.png) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417/1700 "2025-04-15T16:52:11Z")
Looks about right to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-who-is-pretty-good-at-sf-story-identification/462417.md?page=86)