Before you get any exotic, make sure you have a veterinarian in the vicinity that can treat that species of exotic animal.
They must have knowledge and experience. Lack of either will probably kill your pet when, not if, they get sick.
Acid Lamp, thank-you so much for the advice. It looks like we might do this thing. OK, so I have a few more months til birthday time to get to a pet store and see if I can stomach holding one of these. I will go alone in case I embarrass myself.
I’m so glad this thread came up, he has been doing some outstanding work in school lately and he will be even more motivated to earn bonus money if he knows it will go towards a bearded dragon.
How often do they have to see a vet and do they have to go first thing like a cat does?
There are two schools of thought on this.
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All animals ought to go for a wellness checkup. Chances are, your vet will bill you for the visit, and maybe prescribe a wormer, or a general antibiotic, “just in case.”
Pros: IF there is anything wrong, you’ll know immediately and catch it in the bud.
Cons: Expensive, and probably unnecessary. -
Take your animal in when he or she is acting strange:
Pros: Savings
Cons: by the time a reptile shows signs, it may be too far gone to save without a significant course of medicine.
Generally, I wouldn’t recommend a vet visit unless the animal is in distress. Reptiles do not need shots, nor wellness visits in particular. Just make certain you have a vet that CAN competently handle the animal if the need arises.
They make excellent and beautiful pets in the planted terrarium. You are correct in that their toxins are primarily diet driven.
Black Jungle Is a reputable dealer of captive frogs, and has an excellent online store. Most species are bred domestically, and seasonally available. You can usually find the little guys at shows as well. Take the time to build a professional looking vivarium and a dart frog tank is easily among the most beautiful of all terrestrial setups.
You can build a spectacular multi-waterfall backdrop in about a weeks time from materials you can get at your local hardware store.
Acid Lamp What do you know about bats? It was my understanding that even local, non-threatened species required permits that are impossible to get without a PhD. Is this right? How much do certified common species of chiropteran go for (common brown, big brown, etc)? Can they be paper trained? My gut says yes, but I have yet to find confirmation. You did mention that the fruitbats you dealt with were sweet. Have you had dealings with other types of bat?
Thank you for the response. I feel much better knowing they are being captive bred. We have a vivarium the SO had a couple Tokay geckos in, but they weren’t cuddly enough for her so she gave them away. Might be time for me to make designs on that vivarium. I don’t need cuddly in my pets.
Weeeeelllll…All native bat species are, as you say, protected and may not be held in captivity unless you are a licensed research institution. Other species are occasionally “acquired” through various means. I’ve no idea the price range for any native species, but common Indonesian flying fox, start at about 350.00 wholesale per individual. That means you can expect to shell out about 600.00-1000.00 at a retail location, assuming you can find someone who has them.
I currently have no idea of the legal status of any bat in any state, YMMV, and inquire at your own risk.
Disclaimer aside, bats require a large, open air type enclosure. They are usually made of 1’2" wire mesh over a simple wood frame for the large species. Smaller ones would require a soft cage made from screening. No species of bat has been litter or paper trained to my knowledge, but they are intelligent creatures so I would not completely put it out of the question. If you created a toilet corner I imagine they would probably use it as they are tidy animals in general. They need to feel secure when they are being handled, and like parrots will not hesitate to use their mouths to secure a better grip while they shift around.
The flying foxes I worked with were bottle fed adolescents, and were quite affectionate in terms of their temperament. They were both diurnal and nocturnal, and these were trained to be up during the day. They would beg to be held (mostly to get out of their cage), and were happy to hold onto my shirt and nuzzle so long as I fed them tidbits of fruit or an occasional mealworm. When they grew bored they would nip. They have an odor about them that isn’t unpleasant so much as it is strong, and ammonianac. It takes getting used to.
heh. Tokay and Cuddly are rarely used in the same sentence. More commonly seen is Tokay and “Viscous little bastards”. 
I can’t seem to find a link for you right now, but the basic set up is made from a raised platform with a pump underneath, coupled with a free form background made from great stuff expanding foam. This all is covered in black silicone and then cocoa fibers. holes are cut for miniature orchids and bromeliads, and the floor is covered in live thick moss. The sump then recycles the water up behind the foam and out numerous holes with tubes in to let it trickle down like a waterfall. It’s gorgeous.
OK, so now that I have got some great advice on a relatively EASY animal, what, in YOUR opinion, is the most difficult kind of animal that someone might want to keep as a pet? For instance, have you ever heard of someone trying to keep a manatee for a pet?
I went to Fort Lauderdale this past fall for my cousin’s wedding. I saw some little geckos near the door to our hotel. They looked kind of bluish. What kind were they likely, and do those geckos make good pets?
You’re making me want one. And I’m a total mammal-and-fish chauvinist.
Now I want poison dart frogs as pets, too.
Tigers would have to be way up there. Also ligers and polar bears, both of which I want for a pet.
The only bluish geckos that I know of are the Tokay Geckos mentioned above. Depending on the size, many geckos can appear grayish or bluish at night. Most make poor pets due to being nocturnal, delicate, and prone to flight.
The most difficult animal to keep? hmmm. Well Great apes would top the list. They are probably somewhat sentient, strong as an ox, and can be ill tempered. Anything very large is difficult simply because of the size, but it’s nothing an experienced farmer couldn’t handle. Large carnivorous fish would be hard, since they produce so much waste. Any animal that requires a very specific habitat parameter and is also dangerous to humans would be a good bet…something like a big shark or a giant squid.
Oooh! I know! A wolverine! THAT would be a challange. Mean, Dangerous, Stinky, Carnivorous, Semi-nocturnal, and needs a lot of room and stimulation.
A winner in one!
Oooh! I know! A wolverine! THAT would be a challange. Mean, Dangerous, Stinky, Carnivorous, Semi-nocturnal, and needs a lot of room and stimulation.
“Oooh! I know! A wolverine! THAT would be a challenge.”
GO BLUE!!!
How about a Tasmanian Devil?
Actually, have you ever dealt with marsupials?
How about the endangered woodrats? link In the last week or so, I have heard of four of them turning up in python stomachs, two in one python. They think there are only about 200 woodrats left. Not to say that pythons are the only problem that woodrats have, but “fine and stable” and “no data to support their presence being detrimental” don’t seem supportable under the circumstances.
So how does that jive with smuggling insects? I for one, don’t need another non-native cockroach in my house. The ones we have are plenty, thank you. The cockroaches in the exotic pet trade (mostly grown for feed for unusual pets) have escaped and are spreading.link link
Pardon me, and for the first post in years, I am sorry to make it one so negative - but the exotic pet trade is responsible for introduction of disease, damaging invasive species, and damage to populations of rare but desireable species in their native habitats. The whole thing disgusts me. The shipment from Africa story is a good example of how two people trying to make a few bucks could have potentially cost all of us millions or billions fighting disease, or unleashed an invasive species that cost us several of our native species. Sure there are other activities that can be equally destructive - but few of them for so needless a cause. Do you really need that naked mole rat?
Sorry, I’m having a little trouble with the coding.
In the last week or so, I have heard of four endangered woodrats turning up in python stomachs, two in one python. They think there are only about 200 woodrats left. Not to say that pythons are the only problem that woodrats have, but “fine and stable” and “no data to support their presence being detrimental” don’t seem supportable under the circumstances.
So how does that jive with smuggling insects? I for one, don’t need another non-native cockroach in my house. The ones we have are plenty, thank you. The cockroaches in the exotic pet trade (mostly grown for feed for unusual pets) have escaped and are spreading.link link
I have a relative who’s an importer/breeder specializing in big cats (white lions in particular), though he often deals in other stock. The wolverine was the only animal he ever had where I was genuinely scared to go near the cage. Damn thing made noises like the Tasmanian Devil from the cartoons.
Carptracker, Thanks for the thoughts. I’ll attempt to address your issue specifically but I doubt we’ll find common ground.
Conservation is a tricky thing. We’ll take certain steps to preserve a species, but not others. I doubt we’ll be seeing anyone on Key Largo give up their home, business or marina to return the land for conservation. Likewise if the population is so low already that a low feeding predator like a python will do them in, we have a responsibility to remove the animals from the wild and place them in a conservation breeding program. I doubt anyone has considered banning cats from the keys, or dogs. Yes, the pythons probably place more pressure on a few critically endangered species, but such an effect is probably negligible in the long run. Those species are most likely on their way out already, whether due to man’s influence through habitat loss and introduced threats, or from dwindling natural numbers.
The cockroaches are another matter. It is already illegal to import them into Florida, What more can we do? I don’t suppose you are suggesting that we spend Fish and Game resources to form a list of every person in the state who owns an insectivorous animal and have them do surprise inspections on an eight year old’s leopard gecko? We could probably tighten up the regulation on potentially hazardous species, but we’ve a poor record on instituting logical, effective, regulation in that area already. Family and species bans are ineffective due to the numbers of captive bred animals available, and conflicting interstate laws. A federal ban would be unreasonable and impossible to enforce.
There is a lot we agree on - but there is a major philosophical difference. I suggest a “clean list” policy, such as that instituted by Australia and some other countries. If it is not on the list, you cannot import it. The burden should be on the importer to show that the organism will not be a substantial problem when it escapes. We’ve been operating the other way for too long, and it has resulted in numerous terrible mistakes. This is not limited to the pet industry - it applies to aquaculture and sometimes to terrestrial agriculture, and inadequately vetted biocontrol efforts as well. But I would argue that those industries have more substantial potential benefits than the pet trade, and they don’t deal with as many different species, and usually they operate under a higher level of scrutiny.
By the way, the exotic plant trade, especially but not limited to exotic aquatic plants, is perhaps even a bigger problem than the pet trade. But many exotic aquatic plants are distributed with the aquarium trade. This is how we are becoming overrun with brazilian elodea and a now-cold-tolerant hydrilla. Illinois has eichornia now, despite its latitude. What a plague that has become worldwide. And there are other bad actors that keep spreading further because you can order the darn stuff on-line, and people don’t know any better than to buy it. The people SELLING the stuff should, at least, know better. Many times the sellers provide plants that are not what they say they are, and almost always they come with other organisms, plants and animals, attached, that eventually are released or escape.