There are plenty of large schooling fishe commonly seen in the trade as babies that I flat out refused to carry due to their need for others of their species and eventual adult size. Clown loach, pagnasius cats, certain shoaling corys and others.
Some animals had certain restrictions on them. Guinea pigs that were purchased for pets had to be bought in pairs, as did tree frogs. most reputable dealers will let a client know that their potential pet needs such interaction, though many corporate stores will ignore this to make a quick buck.
Ok, maybe the “forever” thing was a bit over-the-top. I’m really not a religious zealot. But seriously, I can’t get past the idea that importing environmentally dangerous animals and plants (and threats to human safety, through imported human diseases and agricultural pests) for the sole purpose of wanting to have something that you think is “cool” (usually for a little while, until you get tired of it) is just dumb.
I have been nearly laughed out of scientific discussions because I think that adaptations of the type of which you speak may take place over less than a couple hundred years. Most people think it takes at least an order of magnitude longer than that in most cases. Thats for individual species. But that is not the point - introductions should not be banned. I’m not some kind of complete environmental purist, and everything non-native should die. But I know that ill-considered introductions are, for the intents and purposes of us mortals, permanent if they take hold. When animals and plants that modify their environment substantially take hold, things will change and often not for the best. This is why I advocate for a clean list. If you want to bring it in, it should be your problem to convince a knowledgeable group that it won’t cause environmental or economic or human health havoc.
“In which I get on my high horse about animal and plant trade” in the pit. If it is not there go ahead an make one. You are mucking up a top rate thread.
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Acid Lamp**
This is a wonderful read thanks for taking the time to share with us your hard won and much loved experiences. Chalk me up as another future owner of one you your books.
I don’t have any specific questions, well maybe one.
But how do we determine that list? Who is to be on the panel? Scientists? Enthusiasts? Wildlife officers? Joe public, or just some bureaucratic panel? Gathering a panel that would have the knowledge to understand potential impacts while maintaining a level head and sense of fairness to our prospective owner would be extremely difficult. Besides people looking to further their pet environmental projects, such a board would be glutted with people with an agenda to further. The best panel I’ve heard of so far is to have simple, easily obtained licenses that are given out upon the basis of need, and ability to demonstrate knowledge and proper facilities for the species.
Chiming in also as being fascinated as well. Do you know Rob Braithwaite, he collects and works with snakes of all descript in the Tidewater VA area [he was mrAru’s EMT trainer for part of the course]
I love snakes and spiders - ever since my first grass snake at the age of 7. No space for the proper setup for tank pets anymore which bums me out.
Any good tales about large cats? mrAru’s father knew a trainer back inthe 60s and 70s that managed large cats [if memory serves he had the cougar used in the car commercials, and the tiger that died after Beastmaster from the dye chemicals]
Are you talking about Pat Derby? She owned and trained the original Mercury cougar, Chauncy. She wrote my FAVORITE book of all time, The Lady and Her Tiger… anyone that is enjoying this thread needs to read it. She runs a sanctuary in California now called PAWS, for retired & rescued animal actors, which I support regularly.
And Acid… this is the best thread EVER. I join with those that say you shoud write a book.
My question- Meerkats. What do you know about them as pets? (not that I am seriously considering it, but damn, they’re cute!) I have heard that it is next to impossible to get a permit because they are such escape artists, building them an enclosure is very difficult. From what I was told, even zoos have a hard time obtaining them.
Anyone who works with animals for any length of time will tell you that despite the public perception, every one of them has a personality. Sometimes those personalities are huge and dominate, and sometimes they only manifest themselves is the strangest of ways. A lot of people would tell you that snakes have no personality, they can't blink, they don't have facial muscles that allow them to emote, and often act rather alien to our mammalian sentiments. Let me break you of that illusion right now. Having dealt with thousands of snakes and lizards, I'll tell you that not only are they all different, but you even see the normal distribution of human types in them. It's probably nothing more than anthropomorphizing on my part, but I like to think that these observations give us a fuller glimpse of another species' thoughts.
Meet Pyscho Sid. Sid was an adolescent male Burmese python. He was about 8 feet long and relatively thin for a member of his species. He was also absolutely, unequivocally, bat-shit insane. Sid hated everyone and everything. He killed his rats as if they had insulted his mother. Most pythons strike hard and wrap their prey up in their coils. Sid preferred to bite and slam his rats against the tank walls until it was bludgeoned to death. Only THEN would he leisurely wraps himself around his rat and hold it for about an hour until finally deciding to eat it.
Sid bit everything. His tank, the glass, me, K., the hook, the cash register, and even a palm tree once. He didn’t seem to have any gears between “sleep” and “Bloody minded rage”. The only thing Sid LIKED was his jumbo heat rock. He was extremely territorial of it and would plop himself on it at all waking hours to guard his treasure. Woe betide the foolish mortal who chose to come between him and his precious.
He was difficult to keep because of this behaviour. Sid was a turn-in from a disreputable looking african american guy we were pretty certain was a crackhead. Sid was able to tell the difference between black men and other races, as well as women, and saved a special torment for them. We are pretty certain Sid was abused to make him mean and was used to guard a stash in his tank.
If one came near his enclosure, he would repeatedly strike the tank until either they got out his line of sight or he knocked himself unconscious.
While we tried mightily to calm him down and show him kindness, eventually Sid killed himself by smashing his head against the tank so hard he fractured his skull. Sid taught me an important lesson. Until then I had always cared for my stock as might a farmer. I prized the animal’s heath for its return on my investment. Now I realized that every single one of them was deserving of the same level of care and affection which with I treated my own pets. Nothing less would be acceptable. It was because of that poor, crazy snake that I formulated my screening requirements. In a unique fit of humanity, K was right on board with me.
Bella was the opposite of Sid. Sweet as pie, and twice as pretty, she was a 12 foot reticulated python. Unusually for species she was a pleasant, polite mannered reptile. Reticulated pythons are the longest snakes in the world, and Bella was still a baby by breed standards. She was easy to work with, ate like a horse, and was a wonderful display animal to have out in the shop. There was only one problem. Bella hated Tupperware. We don't know why, but the mere sight of a Tupperware container sent her into a fit. She would strike it, grab it, and toss it as far as her considerable musculature would allow. She would then fidget and fuss until she was placed back into her habitat where she would sulk and pout for the rest of the day.
One afternoon we had several customers in the store and had Bella out wrapped around my shoulders as a display to the clientele that big snakes were not mean and scary. Bella was excellent and patient as this sort of thing and seemed to enjoy being able to perch on me like a tree. She had basked in the affection that the customers had lavished upon her all afternoon. Things were going GOOD that day. Then it happened. Spying an errant Tupperware on the cashwrap, Bella launched a good five feet of herself to snatch it off the counter and throw it directly into a customer. Contrary to Tupperware’s claims, the seal broke and covered our client in chili. Before I could stop him, he picked up the container and Bella struck again, neatly plucking it from his astonished grasp and tossing it into the snapping turtle pond.
Bella was wrestled back into her habitat where she decided to hide her head under a hollow log. The client was (thankfully) understanding of the situation and found the whole thing pretty funny. We gave him a store t-shirt with a funny logo on it for his trouble and all was well.
The Dick. The Dick was an infant Ball Python. Normally the most docile of all pythons and an excellent choice for children, The Dick seemed to embody all the pent up frustration of a species who's defense mechanism is to roll up into a ball and hide their head. The Dick knew no fear. His imposing twelve inches of body length seemed up to any task. If you needed him to go left, he'd go right. If you wanted him out of his box, he would squat in it like a sumo wrestler. If you wanted him to eat, The Dick would refuse all but the strangest of fare. He seemed to be born a rebel, even his litter mates didn't like him and made him coil up in the corner by himself.
One bright and happy morning I was delivering food to the babies and ensuring that they all took their meals. This morning was going smoothly, each little snake had poked it’s head up and opened up like a baby bird begging for a worm. Nobody had sulked, refused to eat, thrown up, or tried to eat their pink mouse backwards. Finally I reached the trouble-maker section. These animals were known to be fussy, finicky eaters, and the like. This section also included The Dick.
I opened up his box and offered him a pink mouse. He decided to be fussy this morning and refuse it. That was okay, I had other food options for him prepared. he often did this sort of thing. I tried a rat pup which usually did the trick. No dice. He puffed a little at me. A hamster pup was almost always sure fire, and I tried that next. The dick decided that this was interesting, but not as enticing as my thumb. He launched himself onto it and stayed there.
Well crap. It didn’t hurt really, but having a ferocious tiny snake try his hardest to kill your thumb is a bit of a distraction from work. There was nothing to do but wait him out. It took him nearly an hour to decide that the food item he had gotten hold of was truly too large even for his herculean efforts and finally backed off and unwrapped my thumb. Curiously, from that point on he was an absolute sweetie to deal with. I guess he just had to let me know who was in charge.
(snip) I believe that they are on the CITES list, due to chance of escape and human infection. I’ve never seen them available on any of my lists though. You CAN get prairie dogs, which are almost as amusing.
Good question, I dont know the trainers name, though there is a spiffy picture of mrAru’s dad play wrestling with LT [short for little tiger, the more friendly of the 2 tigers at the time that really liked play wrestling and that is what he was used for in scenes … anything up close where less agression was desirable]
As it is, the tiger stading during a full body hug [or whatever you would like to call it] is still taller than mrAru’s dad …
Id like a cheetah pair, as I understand they are actually domesticatable. Course-hunting rabbits sounds like a blast, and I have some killer bunny recipes.
I heard about it from mrAru’s dad, when I saw the nifty picture of him wrestling a tiger named LT, owned by the same trainer. The trainer was seriously pissed at losing a cat because they were more or less part of the family. He had been assured that the dye was safe, and was pissed at himself for not testing it first.
goodie - I want to let you know that my niece has had bearded dragons and even my sister, who isn’t into pets, loved the dragon. She said he was sweet and had loads of personality.
I just wanted to jump in and say that, from my goofy animal-lover perspective, this is indeed one of the coolest threads that’s ever been on the Dope.
DLux (who’s always thought he’d maybe be one of those rare people with whom a pet monkey (specifically a capuchin or a woolly) might be a real good idea)
No they are extremely illegal. In fact they are about as illegal as you can be. We dealt with plenty of other large monitor species though, many as long as the Komodo if not as heavy.