# Ask the guy whose girlfriend is marrying a woman. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668 "2014-01-13T16:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/161 "2014-01-14T19:33:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I didn’t miss anything. I cited how a court looks at a marriage. It’s immaterial what benefit is being fronted. It’s that act of creating a marriage for the sole purpose of providing that benefit. > > The person or agency that cares about immigration is the US government because they have a financial interest in the transaction. The person or agency interested in insurance fraud is the insurance company and the employer. Okay. Now, under what statute or common law crime does this sham marriage constitute insurance fraud? Pick any state. Alternatively, can you point to any prosecution for insurance fraud under similar circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/162 "2014-01-14T19:50:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s a 2 part argument. It’s fraud to use a sham marriage to gain a benefit. Is it? I mean, it could be. Like, say, for\* immigration\*. But what about for insurance? > [@](#): > > It’s a sham marriage when both parties agree there is no relationship involved in the transaction. Is it? It seems we’re conflating two possible meanings of “sham marriage”. One is where you aren’t actually married, you just lie to people that you’re married. The other is where you actually get legally married, despite not being in love. But it totally is not the case that people who marry, but not for love, are guilty of fraud. I know several people where I work (a large software company with lots of workers from India) who had their marriages arranged by their parents. Are these sham marriages? They didn’t marry for love, they married because it was time for them to get married and this person looked decent. > [@](#): > > Sure, it can be muddied up in court and I stated it would be hard to prove but he’s already come out and declared the relationship as such. If he lies about it in court that’s perjury and now HE’s in trouble if he tells anyone or posts it on a discussion board. What court? Who’s going to be on trial? Who says he should perjure himself in court? Nobody but nobody is required to provide proof of marriage to an insurance company pas the marriage license. That’s the proof that the insurance company will need. I have never had to prove that I love my wife, or that we live together, when I fill out insurance forms. All I have to prove is that I’m married to her. If this guy did go to court, and was asked about the relationship he’d be an idiot to perjure himself, whether or not he posted contrary information on public message boards or not. Perjury is a serious crime. But he certainly isn’t on the hook as an “accessory” to any sort of crime, even if we established that a crime was taking place, which we haven’t. You aren’t an accessory to a crime just because you know about the crime, despite what the cops on “Law And Order” say to witnesses to get them to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/163 "2014-01-14T21:20:28Z")
> [@astro](#): > > ^ > > This. Being a successful professional means in the vast majority of cases you will socialize with your peers and their spouses at least several times a year. Parties, dinners outings, picnics whatever, so how is that going to be handled? It’s bad form not to go to anything. > > How does she anticipate the real world complexities of handling your relationship? You want to go to the movies, nice local restaurants, the park, concerts, the theatre you think her peers are co-workers aren’t going to see you at these venues. You think some co-worker or their spouse isn’t going to see you together and deduce in an instant what’s up? The options are (1) she’s cheating on her wife or (2) she’s scamming the company for benefits. None are good reflections on her character. You never know; there might be a level of street cred in this arrangement among younger people – sort of a hipster version of those commercials where you “adopt” a third-world child. Plus, the OP gets to wink slyly and insinuate to his friends that he’s banging someone else’s wife. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/164 "2014-01-14T21:37:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your stand-up girlfriend with a job _that requires her to have an extremely high amount of integrity and professionalism_ wants to marry a bona fide lawyer, _a right many people who loved each other fought long and hard for_, for the _sole_ purpose of getting benefits. Leaving aside the obvious ethical problems, do you know if your girlfriend’s insurance will allow her to add on someone with such severe pre-existing conditions and if so, might they insist on raising her insurance rates? Have you now abandoned your contention that the proposal is fraudulent in favour of a contention that it is unethical? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/165 "2014-01-14T22:22:50Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/166 "2014-01-14T23:34:56Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Unless your girlfriend is on public assistance we are not talking about “the system” we are talking about a company that will have to pay out more money for her benefits. If it’s a big company where she can do things through HR without anyone knowing or caring then it probably won’t be a problem. Or if she has never ever talked about her personal life or you or anything else. But if it’s like anyplace I’ve worked the company would know and be pissed that she is using their money to help a friend. > [@Magiver](#): > > People don’t realize that many businesses self insure. The insurance company is just doing the paperwork. The bulk of the expenses are picked up by the employer. This. Medical insurance costs are a HUGE big deal for my company, and managing them every year is getting harder and harder. If marriage solely for medical benefits knowing that a major cost is coming up happened at my company, it would be not looked upon kindly. At best it would be considered a major error of judgment; at worst the employee might find herself out of a job. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/167 "2014-01-15T01:36:07Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > This. Medical insurance costs are a HUGE big deal for my company, and managing them every year is getting harder and harder. If marriage solely for medical benefits knowing that a major cost is coming up happened at my company, it would be not looked upon kindly. At best it would be considered a major error of judgment; at worst the employee might find herself out of a job. I think your company would lose more in a lawsuit for firing someone for getting married than it would save in insurance costs. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/168 "2014-01-15T01:49:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think your company would lose more in a lawsuit for firing someone for getting married than it would save in insurance costs. This presumes they will be ham handed enough to fire her while giving this as the reason. Re mid level corporate positions there are numerous ways to get rid of people legally. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/169 "2014-01-15T05:32:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If you actually read this, it points out that different areas of the law and different court decisions have dealt with the issue in different ways, that it doesn’t usually matter for insurance, and it does matter for green cards. In other words, your own cite disproves you, but I’m guessing that’s not going to stop you. It doesn’t say that at all. It’s pretty clear there are tests the court would apply and they all revolve around intent to have a relationship. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This fits the legal definition of marriage. I’m sorry it doesn’t meet your approval. No it doesn’t fit the legal definition of marriage. She has stated her intentions are to have a relationship with her boyfriend and the marriage is strictly to provide a benefit. Based on your position she could randomly marry anybody on the planet, never having met them, and as long as there’s a piece of paper you consider them married. She has no personal interest in the woman at all. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/170 "2014-01-15T06:22:27Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > What they are doing is fraud. Do you want to be involved with someone who is willing to commit fraud? > > Something to consider. What was going to ask! ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/171 "2014-01-15T06:30:58Z")
It just seems like such a slap in the face to those who have fought, and those who continue to fight, for marriage equality. Some people have argued against giving gay people equal marriage rights because straight people may enter into sham marriages for financial gain. Way to prove them right, and make them feel justified in continuing to penalize gay couples for the actions of straight people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/172 "2014-01-15T07:10:05Z")
> [@astro](#): > > This presumes they will be ham handed enough to fire her while giving this as the reason. Re mid level corporate positions there are numerous ways to get rid of people legally. In this scenario the absolute best outcome would be career suicide. And that goes for her friend. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/173 "2014-01-15T13:21:35Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > It just seems like such a slap in the face to those who have fought, and those who continue to fight, for marriage equality. Some people have argued against giving gay people equal marriage rights because straight people may enter into sham marriages for financial gain. Way to prove them right, and make them feel justified in continuing to penalize gay couples for the actions of straight people. Straight couple entered into sham marriages for benefits long before gay marriage was even on the radar. I don’t think this, even if it becomes common, will have any effect on marriage equality. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/174 "2014-01-15T13:26:26Z")
Wasn’t this the plot of an Adam Sandler movie? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/175 "2014-01-15T13:31:09Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Straight couple entered into sham marriages for benefits long before gay marriage was even on the radar. I don’t think this, even if it becomes common, will have any effect on marriage equality. Not to mention that some people have advocated against gay marriage by saying they can straight-marry and thus aren’t actually missing out on any rights. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/176 "2014-01-15T13:34:36Z")
You know, I was going to post a similar story I heard from a friend of mine recently, and then I saw the OP and I guess its more relevant to just include it here as an anecdote: Friend-of-a-friend is joining the military. Finds out that he will make MORE money if he is married, so he asks one of his female friends if they want to get married since it would be win-win for them; he would get more pay, she would get health coverage which she needed at the time. Ironically, the guy broke his hip in boot camp and their plan didn’t pan out well (she just recently divorced him). If a servicemember gets more pay for being married, and the spouse of a servicemember gets health coverage for being married to him/her, then I imagine that sham weddings have got to be pretty common in the military. But never having served, I’m not sure exactly how it works and how worthwhile it is for 2 random people to get married for sweet $$$ from Uncle Sam. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/177 "2014-01-15T13:40:09Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think your company would lose more in a lawsuit for firing someone for getting married than it would save in insurance costs. How so? Especially in an at will state. In order to win a lawsuit she would either have to lie under oath about the marriage or explain the sham marriage to a jury. Are you confident that a jury would have no problem with making the company pay for a lawyer friend who is starting up her own practice? For a civil suit it wouldn’t matter if it was a criminal fraud or not. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/178 "2014-01-15T13:43:10Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > You know, I was going to post a similar story I heard from a friend of mine recently, and then I saw the OP and I guess its more relevant to just include it here as an anecdote: > > Friend-of-a-friend is joining the military. Finds out that he will make MORE money if he is married, so he asks one of his female friends if they want to get married since it would be win-win for them; he would get more pay, she would get health coverage which she needed at the time. Ironically, the guy broke his hip in boot camp and their plan didn’t pan out well (she just recently divorced him). > > If a servicemember gets more pay for being married, and the spouse of a servicemember gets health coverage for being married to him/her, then I imagine that sham weddings have got to be pretty common in the military. But never having served, I’m not sure exactly how it works and how worthwhile it is for 2 random people to get married for sweet $$$ from Uncle Sam. 😕 Yes those sham marriages are common in the military. Especially for those deploying. Stories of soldiers being fleeced by their sham spouse are just as common. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/179 "2014-01-15T13:55:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No it doesn’t fit the legal definition of marriage. She has stated her intentions are to have a relationship with her boyfriend and the marriage is strictly to provide a benefit. Based on your position she could randomly marry anybody on the planet, never having met them, and as long as there’s a piece of paper you consider them married. She has no personal interest in the woman at all. Yes, aside from a few basic restrictions (age, parent/child relationship, mental defect) there aren’t any restrictions placed on two people getting married. In the eyes of the law they are legally married regardless of the motivations (love, money, insurance, status, power, inheritance). As long as the marriage meets the criteria set by the state intentions do not enter into it. She could marry any random person on the planet. It’s not a matter of considering them married - _they are married_. I’m not sure why you think the law cares about that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668/180 "2014-01-15T14:16:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It doesn’t say that at all. It’s pretty clear there are tests the court would apply and they all revolve around intent to have a relationship. Despite this apparent clarity, you can’t point to a single one of those tests. Strange. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-guy-whose-girlfriend-is-marrying-a-woman/678668.md?page=10)