Ask the Health Inspector

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Can you expand on this one a little? What sort of violations? And while that may answer the second part, why is it specific to oriental restaurants?

I think gotpasswords is pretty well dead on. The violations I find in Oriental places are pretty consistent–the same from one restaurant to the next and on successive inspections. We call these kinds “Drive-By Inspections”. It’s the kind where you can almost fill out the form sitting in the parking lot because you are confident in what you will find.

Many of the violations simply require a change in habits rather than any investment of capital. The processing they do, especially at the buffets, is a multi-step process. The meat is bought in huge amounts from suppliers. In many cases, it is simply left on the floor until someone feels like putting it away. When it’s being cut, they bring out a couple hundred pounds at a time, allowing it to warm to room temperature in the process. Almost without fail, the chicken, beef, and pork will be cut consecutively with the same equipment. Then it is placed in refrigeration, usually over ready-to-eat foods, where it can cross-contaminate. It is brought out to be cooked the first time, again in bulk. The cooked foods are placed in dirty bus tubs until they are full. The cooked meat will slowly cool off because A) it’s sitting at room temperature and B) it’s packed in there 40 lbs. at a time and has no way of cooling quickly. Eventually it is placed in the walk-in, where it will remain at unsafe temps because there’s so stinkin’ much of it that it doesn’t have a chance to cool. Then it’s re-heated and prepared with the appropriate veggies & sauces before going out to the buffet.

None of those violations require any money to fix. It’s just a matter of retraining personnel. The problem with that is language. Most Oriental kitchens around here are staffed with Spanish-speaking employees, as well as a few Oriental employees.

42

**What is your opinion of airline food? I think it is gross, and the preparation sounds dangerous to me-the stuff is prepared and packed at a central location-then sent around the country. One “Typhoid Mary” could poison thousands of people! **

It definitely has significant implications. We had an outbreak of shigellosis here in my town. The restaurant is just off a major interstate and we had confirmed cases from several states. A 19 year-old had just started working there that week. He was the salad prep guy. He was living in a house where his grandmother was operating an unlicensed day care. Shigella was being passed through the house and he was infected and passed it on through unwashed hands on the lettuce. If the same thing were to happen with airline food, it would be on a much larger scale. I believe airline kitchens are inspected quite frequently by the US Public Health Service, which is one of the 7 uniformed services of the US. (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Merchant Marines, USPHS…I believe that’s right.)

43

T.W.O.,

I was a brand new inspector and was along for the ride with a co-worker when we found a slaughtered goat in a sub sandwich shop. Shop was owned by a Pakistani immigrant who lived in a town 90 minutes away. He would come here and work as needed and would occasionally go to a farm nearby and purchase a slaughtered goat to take back to his home. He would process the meat in his kitchen and keep it in the walk-in until he went home. Never known of any slaughtering to actually occur in a kitchen. (yet)

44

**I didn’t see much of either of these at fast-food places (even though they’re largely staffed by notoriously indifferent teenagers) or other types of restaurants.
**

Fast food places have the KISS Principle down to a fine art. Very few of them do any type of processing. It’s basically cook-by-numbers. Everything is pre-cut, pre-breaded, cooked from a frozen state, and the hot-holding equipment has timers to let the employees know when the food needs to be thrown out. It is (nearly) idiot-proof.

45

Worked in many restaurants and kitchens, and I have to say that we have never had unreasonable write-ups. At one place, we often received perfect scores because the place was small and the staff and owners were very fastidious. At other places, the violations were reasonable and easily corrected. I have not seen any codes that I have ever felt were unreasonable. You would not believe what workers and owners will try to get away with if not for the inspectors - owner changeing baby’s diaper on the counter, storing table linens on open shelves 2 ft from the toilet (“it’s okay because the cook sits down to pee”, according to the owner), straining dozens of large bugs out of whisky and trying to serve it, etc. - all things I have either put an end to or called the health dept on at other places I’ve worked at. Unless you want food stored at unsafe temperatures, bare hand contact with ready-to-eat foods, and cross-contamination, the codes are all valid. If anything, they could be more picky, as far as I can ascertain from places I eat at. A tip - the condition of the bathrooms are a good clue as to the condition of the kitchen.

46

If it was Scotch whiskey, he was holding the bugs over the bottle and shouting "“Spit it out, ya wee thieving bastards! Spit it out!”

Rafe Hollister - what kind of training did you get?

Regards,
Shodan

47

**Originally Posted by Rafe Hollister
Another time we got pulled in on a house of a hoarder. He had about 2 feet of crawlspace between the top of the trash and his ceiling. It was mostly porn. I kid you not. We have pictures.

I think we’d all like to see those.
**

OK. If you would REALLY like to see the pictures of the trash-filled house, I’ll send a few out. Just understand that your e-mail address will be visible to the others that receive it.

Send me an e-mail at rafehollister1974@yahoo.com and I’ll get you some pictures sometime early next week.

48

There was a New York Times article some years ago about how some of the traditional Chinese food preparation methods are simply inconsistent with the health code, and there’s a constant battle where the restaurateurs try to get exemptions based on this tradition. Primarily it had something to do with the way they hang poultry, IIRC.

:smiley:

49

Very interesting thread! A bit gross at times though, as one would expect. Speaking of which: Rafe, have you ever had to deal with something at work that made you physically sick?

50

**Rafe Hollister - what kind of training did you get?
**

The job qualifications are a degree in a physical science, preferably biology, chemistry, or environmental health with coursework in physics. I have a BS in biology and minors in chemistry and math. I began my college career in civil engineering and changed majors after my junior year. I had 6 months of on-the-job training before being released to work independently. During this time I was required to do A LOT of reading and observing with my co-workers. We have a minimum of 24 hours per year of continuing education.

51

Rafe, have you ever had to deal with something at work that made you physically sick?

No. I have had to deal with rancid meat quite a bit and walking through surfacing sewage effluent in yards, but never have gotten ill from it. The closest I’ve ever come to vomiting is from changing particularly nasty diapers and field dressing a gut-shot deer. But nothing work-related. :slight_smile:

52
  1. When I get soda from, say, Taco Bell or another fast food place - it sometimes tastes ‘moldy’. Is this because the spigot is filthy dirty? It does no good to complain to the kid at the counter.
  2. I went in to the hole-in-the-wall Chinese pickup place, while waiting for my food, the swinging door to the kitchen opened and I saw, to my distress, someone’s BABY in a playpen. In the kitchen! And it was below zero, so at least he was in a snowsuit. Should I have called someone (I realize this isn’t health related except for the baby, or course, but some things other than roaches don’t belong around flaming woks).
  3. Would you tell my mother that even though the cooked chicken in the deli is red around the bone that it is SO cooked enough, and that it depends on the age of the bird. At least that’s what I’ve been telling her.
  4. When I read the unsatisfactory inspections notices in the paper, there will be some infraction of health codes and then in parentheses the words (corrected). Does that mean the food servers fix the problem right then and there in front of you, and then it’s all OK? Does the infraction still count against the restaurant even though you’ve seen them correct it?

Thank you, I’ll be reading this later!

53

never mind about 1) , I see, I see! I was in a hurry to post questions before I forgot them! moldy. yuck!

54

1) When I get soda from, say, Taco Bell or another fast food place - it sometimes tastes ‘moldy’. Is this because the spigot is filthy dirty? It does no good to complain to the kid at the counter.

Not sure what’s going on there. However, you are well within your rights to ask an employee to break down the spout and look at it. They twist right off, so don’t let them bluff you into thinking it’s a major ordeal. If they are reluctant to do so, there may be a reason. If you want, you can just look right up in there with the spout still on and see what is inside. A lot of places are using clear spouts now to make the inspection much easier (and to encourage the employees to keep it clean).

2) I went in to the hole-in-the-wall Chinese pickup place, while waiting for my food, the swinging door to the kitchen opened and I saw, to my distress, someone’s BABY in a playpen. In the kitchen! And it was below zero, so at least he was in a snowsuit. Should I have called someone (I realize this isn’t health related except for the baby, or course, but some things other than roaches don’t belong around flaming woks).

There’s a provision in the Food Code for unauthorized personell in the food prep/storage areas. The presence of the child may not be a problem, necessarily, but we have documented parents changing diapers on prep surfaces. And as you mentioned, it’s not a safe environment for a child. Sharp things and hot things can be dangerous enough for adults.

3) Would you tell my mother that even though the cooked chicken in the deli is red around the bone that it is SO cooked enough, and that it depends on the age of the bird. At least that’s what I’ve been telling her.

Color of meat is NOT a good indicator of done-ness. Poultry must be cooked to a minimum internal temperature of 165. Several factors can lead to a reddish color near the bone.

4) When I read the unsatisfactory inspections notices in the paper, there will be some infraction of health codes and then in parentheses the words (corrected). Does that mean the food servers fix the problem right then and there in front of you, and then it’s all OK? Does the infraction still count against the restaurant even though you’ve seen them correct it?

I would assume that is what it means. At our department we have a policy that a critical violation can be corrected on site (COS) and it does not count against them on that inspection, but will be documented. If we see the same problem on successive inspections, the violation stands, though should still be COS, and results in a non-compliant inspection and requires a re-inspection. Two of our local publications view the inspection reports and include them with their editions, so restaurants don’t want any standing critical violations.

55

I didn’t mean to imply I was opposed to health codes. I spent a week in the hospital with salmonella from improperly chicken, I am all about making sure restaurants are careful with their food. But I was picturing this big, bloated, contradictory thing. . . like the tax code.

56

I think it was 4-5 years ago-somebody looked in the windows of a manhattan KFC restaurant-and saw dozens of rats swarming around.
Was the restaurant allowed to reopen?
As i recall, it caused quite stir!

57

It was a casting call for Ratatouille. :smiley:

58

Fascinating thread - thanks for starting it.

Do you ever have to testify in court? If so, any good stories?

Do you have restaurant owners or staff who seem to be obliging to you, but then go back to bad habits as soon as they can?

Does anybody ever try to bring political pressure on you from the mayor’s office, city council, etc.?

Have you ever stopped going to a favorite restaurant because of violations you learned of?

What dishes would you never order at a restaurant because of the likelihood of unsanitary preparation?

59

I’m waitressing again for the first time in 20 years (ouchie) and I’ve witnessed one inspection so far. Actually, I was in the dining room and saw a lady in a spaghetti strap top wandering around the kitchen. I asked who it was and was told it was the health inspector.

Now, I’m not a cook and I’m required by management to wear my hair in a bun, are health inspectors really allowed to wear virtually strapless tops? I would think every movement she made was a gross violation. If indeed, it isn’t allowed, who do you complain to when the health inspector is violating health codes? :slight_smile:

60

Fascinating thread - thanks for starting it.
You’re welcome! :slight_smile:

Do you ever have to testify in court? If so, any good stories?
I was subpoenaed to testify in a civil case of a landlord suing a former tenant who ran a nice little diner. He had moved the operation to a new strip mall and the landlord at the old place sued him for leaving the place too dirty.

I have had to document a few cases where I thought a case of some sort may be imminent. A few times I have given depositions over the phone.

Do you have restaurant owners or staff who seem to be obliging to you, but then go back to bad habits as soon as they can?
Almost all the time. I am in each place for a maximum of 3 routine inspections per year. Repeat violations are the rule, rather than the exception, so I’m reasonably certain that anything I cite them for is only corrected for a week or so, at best.

Does anybody ever try to bring political pressure on you from the mayor’s office, city council, etc.?
That hasn’t happened yet. There is a restaurant owner here who is a perennial officeholder in our state’s Restaurant Association. He always makes a point of reminding you that he and my department director go way back.

Have you ever stopped going to a favorite restaurant because of violations you learned of?
Not really. I have very few restaurants that I go to, primarily because I’m cheap and prefer to cook at home.

What dishes would you never order at a restaurant because of the likelihood of unsanitary preparation?
Chances are, if it’s a mom & pop type of place and they serve beef stew or chili, you should try to avoid that. It is almost a given that these have been heated & cooled a few times.