# Ask the (hopefully soon-to-be-former) Hoarder/Clutterer

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303>\
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\
**Created:** [April 29, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303 "2012-04-29T06:16:31Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/81 "2012-05-03T15:30:06Z")

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**Choie** , it strikes me that, even among animators like us, you seem far too accomodating to your objects. 🙂  
You seem to find it impolite to ask them to make things a little easier for you. Like Hart of Dorkness says, if you have a nice lamp and it doesn’t work, get it to the repair shop and ask them to fix it for you. Or ask a handy person you know. It is a lamp; not only is it happy to be employed as a lamp, it really won’t be insulted if you admit she is not perfect and could use a little work. She is not your mom who would be insulted if you told her you would only have use for her if she lost fifty pounds. 😉  
The same holds for your elecrical wires. They are there to serve you. Their feelings won’'t be hurt if you guide them along the wall so you won’t trip over them and can finally vacuum the floor right. Would you be happy if your roommate tripped over your stuff every day? No? Neither are your wires.

If you have difficulty to look at your house this way, ask help. Some people love redecorating in terms of colors and atmosphere with knicknacks; some people have an eye for what makes a house fit you more, makes it more practical. The advice of **grayhairedmomma** is a really good starting point.

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**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/82 "2012-05-03T15:30:34Z")

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LOL! I love the idea of junk getting to make new friends!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\
**Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/83 "2012-05-03T20:58:18Z")

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I sense a new career specialty forming here: residential environmental counselor. 🙂

Hmm. I tried to google a better word, and it turns out that the Latin for “thing” _is_ “res”. So it’s already built in!

Appliance psychiatrist? Knick-knack transition facilitor? 🙂

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/84 "2012-05-04T04:39:00Z")

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Hey all, checking in before I fall asleep. I can’t believe how tiring this is, and I swear I’m not even doing much myself at all. Must be purely emotional energy that’s wearing me out, even though I swear I’m doing better than I thought I would.

First to respond to all you incredibly warm, friendly folks:

> [@StGermain](#):
>
> How did the review with Sol’s supervisor go?

The guy never showed up! Jerk. Well, tomorrow when I pay (hmm, must remember to call HCH to find out _how_ I pay, considering I need to use my credit card but usually payments are given to the workers…) I’ll be given a sheet with a sort of report card on it. Sol will certainly be getting very very good marks. He’s gone above and beyond the call as far as I’m concerned.

> [@sandra\_nz](#):
>
> Have you been thinking about a routine of cleaning that will help you maintain the standard of cleanliness/tidiness?

> [@grayhairedmomma](#):
>
> **choie** , you are doing such a great job and I’m so happy for you. I’ve been through something like this twice.
> 
> In my experience, the only way to break the cycle is to organize your home in a way that works with your natural movements through your space, and to set up a cleaning routine in the same way.

Thanks to both of you! My initial instinctive plan is: never buy anything ever again and make my cats wear diapers! 🙂 But being more realistic, I do like the idea of having days of the week to do certain things, and combining the ‘chores’ with stuff I can do as I putter around the apartment, for example, it’s easy to wipe off the sink right after using it, barely takes any energy at all. I remember reading _Little House in the Big Woods_ (fewer years ago than a 45-year-old should admit to) and I remember Laura relating her mother’s little work poem about chores she’d do throughout the week:

_Wash on Monday,  
Iron on Tuesday,  
Mend on Wednesday,  
Churn on Thursday,  
Clean on Friday,  
Bake on Saturday,  
Rest on Sunday._

Obviously these won’t be emulated, since I almost never churn my own butter these days (embarrassing but true!). But if I make a list of things to do both every day and on specific days of the week, that sounds doable and not overwhelming. Sort of like..

Every day: wipe bathroom sink and make sure shower/tub is clean, scoop litter; do any dishes I’ve used.

Monday: Dust, water plants, take out garbage  
Tuesday: Vacuum  
Wednesday: take out garbage  
Thursday: compile and organize printouts of my writing (ongoing project)  
Friday: do laundry, take out garbage, put recycling out on curb  
Saturday: Clean out fridge of any leftovers that haven’t been used (and likely won’t)  
Sunday: change litter boxes, sweep/mop bathroom floor (& kitchen if necessary)

There’s not really that much because, y’know, it’s just one person and her cats. The multitude of “take out garbage” listings is due to the cats; three cats = six cans a day. This adds up very quickly, as you can imagine.

> [@shantih](#):
>
> Good for you, \*\*choie! You’re doing amazingly well with this! Your bathroom looks fantastic now; I can’t wait to see the pix of your streamlined, orderly, serene apartment when all this is done!

Thank you, **shantih**! After removing some boxes today, the apartment looks especially different. My sister’s iphone will take better pictures and you’ll see the final product. I’m tempted to upload a couple of the before pictures, just to let them sink in before the final clean versions are added tomorrow night.

> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Hi, **choie**. I just wanted to pop in and say I am loving this thread, and am so inspired by you. I’ve been feeling the need to really declutter for a while, but even when I do get a good chunk done (say, the craft table or the bedroom closet), it seems to get cluttered up again so quickly. It’s especially bad now that we have a toddler, and we’re constantly accumulating new clothes and toys that are outgrown just a few months later. It leaves me feeling defeated and I resign myself to living with clutter. But this thread (and the incredibly helpful daily affirmations at [Unfuck Your Habitat](http://unfuckyourhabitat.tumblr.com/); thanks, **Lsura**!) are helping me commit to doing a little each day, and keeping at it, and I’m seeing a difference. So I thank you.
> 
> And see, you’re not just inspiring, you’re _funny_. Like [cancer boy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu9wkm82FUw&feature=related)!
> 
> There’s no shame in keeping a lovely non-working lamp. It’s basically a decorative vase. But - rewiring a lamp is easy-peasy and cheap. I’ve done it myself. You can find a wiring kit at just about any hardware store, and if you’re really feeling daunted, they can probably do it for you in about 10 minutes.
> 
> Imagine this instead, then: they’re not clutching and begging you to keep them, they’re reaching out to _embrace you in gratitude_ for letting them be free to go see the world, meet new people, and have new experiences. I mean, what a bummer it must be to be an object that just sits around under a pile of stuff, and doesn’t even get used, right? Borrr-ing! Give it away, and let it have some fun. And think of how happy its new owner will be! When I watch the hoarder shows on TV, and I hear them say, as they always do, “But I might be able to use it someday!” I think, “Selfish! There are people out there who can use those things _now_!” Let it go to the people who need it. If it’s an item that’s truly useless, then it should be recycled, so it can become something useful again. And if it’s really just garbage, it’s going to be sitting in a pile of stuff anyway; it doesn’t care whether that pile is in your house or at the landfill. So at least let it go to the dump and make some new friends.
> 
> Keep up the good work - I can’t wait to see the rest of the photos.

It’s a big quote but it deserved a lot of space. That’s a very positive and sweet way to think of this process. I’ll do my best to think of things in that light.

And yet because (like the _Kids in the Hall_ – always nice to meet a fellow fan!) I have a rather morbid sense of humor, I can’t help think of “liberating the things” in the same sense as some creepy cult trying to “liberate” themselves through suicide. Which kinda ruins the effect we’re aiming at. 🙂

I spent a lot of today trying to find places to donate books in NYC. It is _ridiculously_ uneasy to do. I think, being NYC, there are so many people here, and so many readers, that libraries and thrift shops are somewhat glutted with the stuff.

I did find the Vietnam Veterans Association site called [Pick-up Please](http://www.pickupplease.org/donation-pickup) that will pick up your donations. For some reason I’m a little leery. Does anyone have any experience with them? I know the Salvation Army does pick-ups, but I have some unpleasant associations with them having worked in the nonprofit industry (as does my sister) so I’m less inclined to go with them. I know there are ways to drop off books, but I’m trying to go with something I’m actually likely to do, rather than make things difficult for me. At this point it’s the books that are the biggest clutter in the apartment. Do I _need_ a 1963 set of World Book Encyclopedias? Of course not. Yet I want them for sentiment’s sake. It’s kind of fascinating to read about the world as it was seen back then. Kennedy’s still listed as president, for example.

However there are at least 100 books that can easily be jettisoned without this kind of sentimental attachment.

> [@Maastricht](#):
>
> **Choie** , it strikes me that, even among animators like us, you seem far too accomodating to your objects. 🙂  
> You seem to find it impolite to ask them to make things a little easier for you. Like Hart of Dorkness says, if you have a nice lamp and it doesn’t work, get it to the repair shop and ask them to fix it for you. Or ask a handy person you know. It is a lamp; not only is it happy to be employed as a lamp, it really won’t be insulted if you admit she is not perfect and could use a little work. She is not your mom who would be insulted if you told her you would only have use for her if she lost fifty pounds. 😉

First, I told you, all inanimate objects are male, dammit! 😃

But seriously, you’re right, of course. (And you were right about the curtain liner too, btw. I love the outside curtain but the liner itself needs to be replaced badly.) I know above it was suggested that I do the rewiring, but I’m waaaaaaaay too paranoid about fires and electricity to go anywhere near that. (When I was a kid, one day I went to the bathroom and, when through, turned off the light. The light wouldn’t go off, instead it just flickered on and off for some reason. Puzzled, I went to get my mom, and just as we both got to the door, the light fixture exploded into flames. Mom kicked the door closed and got us all the hell out of the house. I was so terrified that I was unable to turn on or off any electric appliances for at least a year after that. (Frankly I’m still a little wigged out when I change a light bulb and it flickers on, meaning that I forgot to turn it off before replacing the bulb. Scares the crap out of me every time.)

Ummmm so yeah. Anyway. Yes, I will look for a proper electrician to rewire the lamp, and also probably get a new [del]hat[/del] lampshade for it. (That strike-out wasn’t a joke – I quite automatically wrote “hat,” because I call _all_ covers “hats,” even for plastic containers. Yep, my shrink will be buying some very nice cars off of her earnings from all my neuroses.)

> [@Sunspace](#):
>
> I sense a new career specialty forming here: residential environmental counselor. 🙂
> 
> Hmm. I tried to google a better word, and it turns out that the Latin for “thing” _is_ “res”. So it’s already built in!
> 
> Appliance psychiatrist? Knick-knack transition facilitor? 🙂

Heh. Mechanical Matchmaker?

Anyway, so about today. Sol cleaned my window blinds and somehow managed to unbend them (you know how metal blinds often get sorta bent at the edges? He fixed it so easily!). They look amazing. And then he did the outside of the windows, which was easy too because apparently these suckers tilt inward, a fact that was utterly unknown to me despite having lived here for 19 years.

He also did about 90% of the kitchen, which is utterly gorgeous (except for the fugly tile floors, something I’ll be nagging my building manager about if I get up the nerve). Oh! He even somehow cleaned this great aluminum make-up case, that looks like a mini-trunk and when you open it, drawers sort of pop/slide out? This thing had been filthy for years (I never even used it) and I was _certain_ it had rusted over and was unusable. Sol just handed it to me and it’s _gleaming_!

Meanwhile I finally cleaned out one filing cabinet’s worth of ancient bank statements, bills, tax returns, etc. (Older than ten years – most were from the mid-nineties at the latest.) Now there’s room for more current stuff, hallelujah.

Tomorrow is the Last Day. There are things I don’t think Sol will be able to get to: dusting and cleaning the bookshelves, for example, which I know he’d intended to do. But the kitchen took up way more time than he’d realized (he worked straight through lunch; I’d bought him coffee and a bagel for breakfast but he didn’t have the bagel. I have no idea how he did such hard physical work without sustenance!).

But what _will_ be done is my second closet and my bed area, under which I’m pretty sure he’ll find D.B. Cooper, Amelia Earhart, and Jimmy Hoffa.

Uh oh it’s later than I thought. Off to bed. Tomorrow prepare yourself for some awesome pictures. 🙂 Thank you all very much. Seriously. It has been a long journey and you’ve not only made the road much less rocky, but also provided warmth and light along the way.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/85 "2012-05-04T04:44:03Z")

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Hey all, checking in before I fall asleep. I can’t believe how tiring this is, and I swear I’m not even doing much myself at all. Must be purely emotional energy that’s wearing me out, even though I swear I’m doing better than I thought I would.

First to respond to all you incredibly warm, friendly folks:

> [@StGermain](#):
>
> How did the review with Sol’s supervisor go?

The guy never showed up! Jerk. Well, tomorrow when I pay (hmm, must remember to call HCH to find out _how_ I pay, considering I need to use my credit card but usually payments are given to the workers…) I’ll be given a sheet with a sort of report card on it. Sol will certainly be getting very very good marks. He’s gone above and beyond the call as far as I’m concerned.

> [@sandra\_nz](#):
>
> Have you been thinking about a routine of cleaning that will help you maintain the standard of cleanliness/tidiness?

> [@grayhairedmomma](#):
>
> **choie** , you are doing such a great job and I’m so happy for you. I’ve been through something like this twice.
> 
> In my experience, the only way to break the cycle is to organize your home in a way that works with your natural movements through your space, and to set up a cleaning routine in the same way.

Thanks to both of you! My initial instinctive plan is: never buy anything ever again and make my cats wear diapers! 🙂 But being more realistic, I do like the idea of having days of the week to do certain things, and combining the ‘chores’ with stuff I can do as I putter around the apartment, for example, it’s easy to wipe off the sink right after using it, barely takes any energy at all. I remember reading _Little House in the Big Woods_ (fewer years ago than a 45-year-old should admit to) and I remember Laura relating her mother’s little work poem about chores she’d do throughout the week:

_Wash on Monday,  
Iron on Tuesday,  
Mend on Wednesday,  
Churn on Thursday,  
Clean on Friday,  
Bake on Saturday,  
Rest on Sunday._

Obviously these won’t be emulated, since I almost never churn my own butter these days (embarrassing but true!). But if I make a list of things to do both every day and on specific days of the week, that sounds doable and not overwhelming. Sort of like..

Every day: wipe bathroom sink and make sure shower/tub is clean, scoop litter; do any dishes I’ve used.

Monday: Dust, water plants, take out garbage  
Tuesday: Vacuum  
Wednesday: take out garbage  
Thursday: compile and organize printouts of my writing (ongoing project)  
Friday: do laundry, take out garbage, put recycling out on curb  
Saturday: Clean out fridge of any leftovers that haven’t been used (and likely won’t)  
Sunday: change litter boxes, sweep/mop bathroom floor (& kitchen if necessary)

There’s not really that much because, y’know, it’s just one person and her cats. The multitude of “take out garbage” listings is due to the cats; three cats = six cans a day. This adds up very quickly, as you can imagine.

> [@shantih](#):
>
> Good for you, \*\*choie! You’re doing amazingly well with this! Your bathroom looks fantastic now; I can’t wait to see the pix of your streamlined, orderly, serene apartment when all this is done!

Thank you, **shantih**! After removing some boxes today, the apartment looks especially different. My sister’s iphone will take better pictures and you’ll see the final product. I’m tempted to upload a couple of the before pictures, just to let them sink in before the final clean versions are added tomorrow night.

> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> Hi, **choie**. I just wanted to pop in and say I am loving this thread, and am so inspired by you. I’ve been feeling the need to really declutter for a while, but even when I do get a good chunk done (say, the craft table or the bedroom closet), it seems to get cluttered up again so quickly. It’s especially bad now that we have a toddler, and we’re constantly accumulating new clothes and toys that are outgrown just a few months later. It leaves me feeling defeated and I resign myself to living with clutter. But this thread (and the incredibly helpful daily affirmations at [Unfuck Your Habitat](http://unfuckyourhabitat.tumblr.com/); thanks, **Lsura**!) are helping me commit to doing a little each day, and keeping at it, and I’m seeing a difference. So I thank you.
> 
> And see, you’re not just inspiring, you’re _funny_. Like [cancer boy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu9wkm82FUw&feature=related)!
> 
> There’s no shame in keeping a lovely non-working lamp. It’s basically a decorative vase. But - rewiring a lamp is easy-peasy and cheap. I’ve done it myself. You can find a wiring kit at just about any hardware store, and if you’re really feeling daunted, they can probably do it for you in about 10 minutes.
> 
> Imagine this instead, then: they’re not clutching and begging you to keep them, they’re reaching out to _embrace you in gratitude_ for letting them be free to go see the world, meet new people, and have new experiences. I mean, what a bummer it must be to be an object that just sits around under a pile of stuff, and doesn’t even get used, right? Borrr-ing! Give it away, and let it have some fun. And think of how happy its new owner will be! When I watch the hoarder shows on TV, and I hear them say, as they always do, “But I might be able to use it someday!” I think, “Selfish! There are people out there who can use those things _now_!” Let it go to the people who need it. If it’s an item that’s truly useless, then it should be recycled, so it can become something useful again. And if it’s really just garbage, it’s going to be sitting in a pile of stuff anyway; it doesn’t care whether that pile is in your house or at the landfill. So at least let it go to the dump and make some new friends.
> 
> Keep up the good work - I can’t wait to see the rest of the photos.

It’s a big quote but it deserved a lot of space. That’s a very positive and sweet way to think of this process. I’ll do my best to think of things in that light.

And yet because (like the _Kids in the Hall_ – always nice to meet a fellow fan!) I have a rather morbid sense of humor, I can’t help think of “liberating the things” in the same sense as some creepy cult trying to “liberate” themselves through suicide. Which kinda ruins the effect we’re aiming at. 🙂

I spent a lot of today trying to find places to donate books in NYC. It is _ridiculously_ uneasy to do. I think, being NYC, there are so many people here, and so many readers, that libraries and thrift shops are somewhat glutted with the stuff.

I did find the Vietnam Veterans Association site called [Pick-up Please](http://www.pickupplease.org/donation-pickup) that will pick up your donations. For some reason I’m a little leery. Does anyone have any experience with them? I know the Salvation Army does pick-ups, but I have some unpleasant associations with them having worked in the nonprofit industry (as does my sister) so I’m less inclined to go with them. I know there are ways to drop off books, but I’m trying to go with something I’m actually likely to do, rather than make things difficult for me. At this point it’s the books that are the biggest clutter in the apartment. Do I _need_ a 1963 set of World Book Encyclopedias? Of course not. Yet I want them for sentiment’s sake. It’s kind of fascinating to read about the world as it was seen back then. Kennedy’s still listed as president, for example.

However there are at least 100 books that can easily be jettisoned without this kind of sentimental attachment.

> [@Maastricht](#):
>
> **Choie** , it strikes me that, even among animators like us, you seem far too accomodating to your objects. 🙂  
> You seem to find it impolite to ask them to make things a little easier for you. Like Hart of Dorkness says, if you have a nice lamp and it doesn’t work, get it to the repair shop and ask them to fix it for you. Or ask a handy person you know. It is a lamp; not only is it happy to be employed as a lamp, it really won’t be insulted if you admit she is not perfect and could use a little work. She is not your mom who would be insulted if you told her you would only have use for her if she lost fifty pounds. 😉

First, I told you, all inanimate objects are male, dammit! 😃

But seriously, you’re right, of course. (And you were right about the curtain liner too, btw. I love the outside curtain but the liner itself needs to be replaced badly.) I know above it was suggested that I do the rewiring, but I’m waaaaaaaay too paranoid about fires and electricity to go anywhere near that. Backstory: when I was a kid, I went to the bathroom one day and, when through, turned off the light. The light wouldn’t go off, instead it just flickered on and off for some reason. Puzzled, I went to get my mom, and just as we both got to the door, the light fixture exploded into flames. Mom kicked the door closed and got us all the hell out of the house. I was so terrified that I was unable to turn on or off any electric appliances for at least a year after that. (Frankly I’m still a little wigged out when I change a light bulb and it flickers on, meaning that I forgot to turn it off before replacing the bulb. Scares the crap out of me every time.)

Ummmm so yeah. Anyway. Yes, I will look for a proper electrician to rewire the lamp, and also probably get a new [del]hat[/del] lampshade for it. (That strike-out wasn’t a joke – I quite automatically wrote “hat,” because I call _all_ covers “hats,” even for plastic containers. Yep, my shrink will be buying some very nice cars off of her earnings from all my neuroses.)

> [@Sunspace](#):
>
> I sense a new career specialty forming here: residential environmental counselor. 🙂
> 
> Hmm. I tried to google a better word, and it turns out that the Latin for “thing” _is_ “res”. So it’s already built in!
> 
> Appliance psychiatrist? Knick-knack transition facilitor? 🙂

Heh. Mechanical Matchmaker?

Anyway, so about today. Sol cleaned my window blinds and somehow managed to unbend them (you know how metal blinds often get sorta bent at the edges? He fixed it so easily!). They look amazing. And then he did the outside of the windows, which was easy too because apparently these suckers tilt inward, a fact that was utterly unknown to me despite having lived here for 19 years.

He also did about 90% of the kitchen, which is utterly gorgeous (except for the fugly tile floors, something I’ll be nagging my building manager about if I get up the nerve). Oh! He even somehow cleaned this great aluminum make-up case, that looks like a mini-trunk and when you open it, drawers sort of pop/slide out? This thing had been filthy for years (I never even used it) and I was _certain_ it had rusted over and was unusable. Sol just handed it to me and it’s _gleaming_!

Meanwhile I finally cleaned out one filing cabinet’s worth of ancient bank statements, bills, tax returns, etc. (Older than ten years – most were from the mid-nineties at the latest.) Now there’s room for more current stuff, hallelujah.

Tomorrow is the Last Day. There are things I don’t think Sol will be able to get to: dusting and cleaning the bookshelves, for example, which I know he’d intended to do. But the kitchen took up way more time than he’d realized (he worked straight through lunch; I’d bought him coffee and a bagel for breakfast but he didn’t have the bagel. I have no idea how he did such hard physical work without sustenance!).

But what _will_ be done is my second closet and my bed area, under which I’m pretty sure he’ll find D.B. Cooper, Amelia Earhart, and Jimmy Hoffa.

Uh oh it’s later than I thought. Off to bed. Tomorrow prepare yourself for some awesome pictures. 🙂 Thank you all very much. Seriously. It has been a long journey and you’ve not only made the road much less rocky, but also provided warmth and light along the way.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/86 "2012-05-04T05:52:00Z")

</div>

Way to go!

You’ve inspired me to tackle a couple of clutters myself.

One organization / time management guru says that if you don’t have an inbasket for your house, you’re whole house becomes an inbasket.

Our dining table serves as our inbasket, but gets completely jumbles into a huge unsorted mountain of receipts, letters, credit card statements, my wife’s work things, my work things, stuff for the kids, et cetera, et cetera.

One more day for you! I hope it goes really well.

Looking forward to the pictures.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/87 "2012-05-04T11:08:17Z")

</div>

Good for you, **choie!** You are doing this with a great deal of grace, dignity, and humor.

I had been slowly working on my office/guest room/exercise room, Getting rid of at least 10 pieces of paper (from old files, or from boxes that just went from move to move, unlooked at) a day, a book a day, a cd or dvd a day. Yes, it’s a glacial pace, but it does ad up.

You’ve inspired me to speed up the process, however. I think I’ve also hit on a rearrangement of the furniture and shelves and computer platform to make better use of the space, so, if I got houseguests, there would actually be room for them. The danged exercise equipment takes up so much room, but I actually use it daily, so it stays. Once I’ve rearranged the room and gotten a shelf out, however, I’ll be able to move the items aside better, so they don’t take up as much space when not in use.

Thank you for writing about your process, **choie**. Not only are you helping yourself, but you are helping other folks reading this thread, too.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/88 "2012-05-04T11:12:13Z")

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> [@choie](#):
>
> Hey all, checking in before I fall asleep. I can’t believe how tiring this is, and I swear I’m not even doing much myself at all. Must be purely emotional energy that’s wearing me out, even though I swear I’m doing better than I thought I would.

Yep, it’s the emotional energy you’re expending that’s wearing you out.

However, you _chose_ to do this, you psyched yourself up for it. You have help (go Sol!) who has probably helped people with this before and is understanding about your situation. AND you’ve got emotional support here. All of that makes it easier on you.

Go, **choie!**

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/89 "2012-05-04T18:25:15Z")

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Not that I want to encourage you to keep trash in your home, but I understand the 3 cats = 6 cans a day thing and I found aluminum is bought at our local recycler for .62/lb. I bet you could find someone on Craigslist to come and pick yours up on a weekly or twice weekly basis to turn it in and you’ll make even less trash in the long run. Metal is constantly recycled, unlike plastic.  
Am I naive in assuming there are people in NYC who take in metal for scrap?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/90 "2012-05-04T19:49:18Z")

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> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#):
>
> Am I naive in assuming there are people in NYC who take in metal for scrap?

Yes, because curbside recycling is required, and they don’t pay you. Instead, they fine you if you don’t do it.

Anyway, catfood cans are steel.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/91 "2012-05-04T20:05:38Z")

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> [@Hello\_Again](#):
>
> Yes, because curbside recycling is required, and they don’t pay you. Instead, they fine you if you don’t do it.
> 
> Anyway, catfood cans are steel.

Fancy Feast, Purina One and Friskies cans are aluminum. Can’t speak to the other brands.

How would they fine her for NOT doing it if the cans went from her home to someone else?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/92 "2012-05-04T20:31:21Z")

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> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#):
>
> Fancy Feast, Purina One and Friskies cans are aluminum. Can’t speak to the other brands.
> 
> How would they fine her for NOT doing it if the cans went from her home to someone else?

yes, what I’m saying is, since curbside recycling is mandatory, there isn’t anyone driving all over NYC trying to accumulate 62 cents worth of aluminum from private citizens (31 soda cans, maybe about 60 cat food cans?) , when gas is 4.50+ a gallon.

I don’t think telling the OP she should hoard 50 or so cat food cans in a studio apartment on the off chance she can find a crazy person to take them off her hands for 50 cents, is an improvement in her living style. If she is like most New Yorkers, she has a garbage chute/recycling location right in the hall outside her apartment - it;s 10 steps and getting rid of garbage is a good thing.

And I presume when she says “take it to the garbage” she doesn’t mean that literally, she means "take it to the garbage area and put it in the designated recycling bin. Either than, or the super is sorting her trash. Because you cannot dump recyclables with common trash in NYC.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\
**Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/93 "2012-05-04T21:38:39Z")

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> [@choie](#):
>
> I did find the Vietnam Veterans Association site called [Pick-up Please](http://www.pickupplease.org/donation-pickup) that will pick up your donations. For some reason I’m a little leery. Does anyone have any experience with them? I know the Salvation Army does pick-ups, but I have some unpleasant associations with them having worked in the nonprofit industry (as does my sister) so I’m less inclined to go with them. I know there are ways to drop off books, but I’m trying to go with something I’m actually likely to do, rather than make things difficult for me.

I have arranged pickups with Vietnam Veterans of America before. I tend to use Big Brother Big Sister though, because they are more proactive in asking me if I have anything to donate. I don’t donate many books, mostly household items and clothing. VVA is a reputable charity that’s been around for quite some time, if that’s what you’re hesitant about.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/94 "2012-05-05T01:40:53Z")

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> [@Hello\_Again](#):
>
> I don’t think telling the OP she should hoard 50 or so cat food cans in a studio apartment on the off chance she can find a crazy person to take them off her hands for 50 cents, is an improvement in her living style. If she is like most New Yorkers, she has a garbage chute/recycling location right in the hall outside her apartment - it;s 10 steps and getting rid of garbage is a good thing.

Agreed. One of the problems with hording a clutter is the tendency to think of junk as potentially good. Keeping that many cat food cans could very well encourage keeping other things as well. It’s a lot cheaper to let the 50 cents go than to pay for Sol to come back.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/95 "2012-05-05T02:11:08Z")

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> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#):
>
> Not that I want to encourage you to keep trash in your home, but I understand the 3 cats = 6 cans a day thing and I found aluminum is bought at our local recycler for .62/lb. I bet you could find someone on Craigslist to come and pick yours up on a weekly or twice weekly basis to turn it in and you’ll make even less trash in the long run. Metal is constantly recycled, unlike plastic.  
> Am I naive in assuming there are people in NYC who take in metal for scrap?

I know you mean well, but this is terrible advice for someone who suffers from hoarding tendencies. The hardest thing to learn, when you are a hoarder or borderline hoarder, is that it _is okay to get rid of things even if they might hypothetically be useful in some way._ People can wind up with piles and piles and piles of what is basically junk, because it could be sold for money at some point, or it could be used at some point, or…or…or…

Normal people can save aluminum so that they can take it in to be recycled at some point and make some money. Hoarders cannot. Because what will happen is that that trip to the recycler will get put off and put off again and meanwhile that pile of cans gets bigger and bigger, and you don’t have anywhere to put some of your _other_ stuff, so you toss it over by the pile of cans because that’s a disorganized area anyway, and then one day you think “I should get those to the recycler” but now it’s this huge annoying job because there’s a bunch of other crap mixed in with the aluminum, and oh look, the county just showed up to evict me from my junk house.

Items not currently being used should be got rid of, immediately. No saving things for recycling, no saving things for posterity, no saving things period. If you don’t use it, you get rid of it, the fastest possible way.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/96 "2012-05-05T02:35:00Z")

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> [@Hello\_Again](#):
>
> yes, what I’m saying is, since curbside recycling is mandatory, there isn’t anyone driving all over NYC trying to accumulate 62 cents worth of aluminum from private citizens (31 soda cans, maybe about 60 cat food cans?) , when gas is 4.50+ a gallon.
> 
> I don’t think telling the OP she should hoard 50 or so cat food cans in a studio apartment on the off chance she can find a crazy person to take them off her hands for 50 cents, is an improvement in her living style. If she is like most New Yorkers, she has a garbage chute/recycling location right in the hall outside her apartment - it;s 10 steps and getting rid of garbage is a good thing.
> 
> And I presume when she says “take it to the garbage” she doesn’t mean that literally, she means "take it to the garbage area and put it in the designated recycling bin. Either than, or the super is sorting her trash. Because you cannot dump recyclables with common trash in NYC.

> [@TokyoPlayer](#):
>
> Agreed. One of the problems with hording a clutter is the tendency to think of junk as potentially good. Keeping that many cat food cans could very well encourage keeping other things as well. It’s a lot cheaper to let the 50 cents go than to pay for Sol to come back.

> [@MsWhatsit](#):
>
> I know you mean well, but this is terrible advice for someone who suffers from hoarding tendencies. The hardest thing to learn, when you are a hoarder or borderline hoarder, is that it _is okay to get rid of things even if they might hypothetically be useful in some way._ People can wind up with piles and piles and piles of what is basically junk, because it could be sold for money at some point, or it could be used at some point, or…or…or…
> 
> Normal people can save aluminum so that they can take it in to be recycled at some point and make some money. Hoarders cannot. Because what will happen is that that trip to the recycler will get put off and put off again and meanwhile that pile of cans gets bigger and bigger, and you don’t have anywhere to put some of your _other_ stuff, so you toss it over by the pile of cans because that’s a disorganized area anyway, and then one day you think “I should get those to the recycler” but now it’s this huge annoying job because there’s a bunch of other crap mixed in with the aluminum, and oh look, the county just showed up to evict me from my junk house.
> 
> Items not currently being used should be got rid of, immediately. No saving things for recycling, no saving things for posterity, no saving things period. If you don’t use it, you get rid of it, the fastest possible way.

Thank you, I think the point that I’m wrong to suggest someone else come to her home and take the metal off her hands for recycling has been hammered home quite well.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/97 "2012-05-05T02:39:32Z")

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> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#):
>
> Thank you, I think the point that I’m wrong to suggest someone else come to her home and take the metal off her hands for recycling has been hammered home quite well.

Heh. Er, sorry. I think you just served as the stand-in for my cousin, who actually refused to take some things out to the trash for me when I was de-hoarding my own home, because “Hey, this broken vacuum cleaner could be fixed!” :smack:

You’re totally not my cousin. For one thing, you probably smell better. (Rim shot, please.)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/98 "2012-05-05T06:26:10Z")

</div>

Hey everyone! Sorry for the late update (not that y’all were on pins and needles waiting with bated breath, but you know what I mean).

First I just want to thank **Nawth Chucka** ; I know you got hammered a bit hard for your suggestion, but you obviously meant well and I truly appreciate your even bothering to come up with a possible solution for me. It’s true that recycling is mandatory in NYC, so we do have to separate. (I have to admit that I don’t always do that, especially when I’m desperate to be rid of stuff and I just need the fastest, easiest way to do so, which usually means tossing everything into a giant lawn/heavy duty trash bag. However, usually I do, so don’t hit me, **Hello Again**! :))

Anyway. Today was actually an oddly anticlimactic day in one sense, and in another it was the hardest day of all.

The anticlimactic part had to do with the cleaning service pulling Sol from my job at about 1PMish and sending him to another site. I was supposed to get him from 10am - 5pm for five days, and I feel a bit irked that I got short-shrifted, especially since there were two relatively important jobs left undone: cleaning my second closet and finishing up the kitchen. I was really relying on that second closet, as it will provide extremely necessary storage space for lots of stuff that I chose to keep but that currently doesn’t have a home and is sort of in a pile in the corner of my apartment.

Also there was the black hole under my bed to clean as well, and though Sol did get a very good start on that, there was still junk left there. And most disappointingly, there was no final vacuuming or mopping of the floor, which after a few days of decluttering and moving stuff around was covered in, well, _shmutz_ is what we’d call it in Yiddish. Dust, crumbs, bits of paper, that sort of thing. So it looked a bit grubby.

All I can say is that the other job they dragged Sol to had better have been an emergency, like a ghastly crime scene! (Well, okay… I don’t _really_ hope it was a crime scene, that’s a bit ghoulish even for me.)

Despite these minor let-downs, there’s no doubt in my mind that this was the right thing to do, and that I was extremely fortunate to have someone as diligent, good-natured, and compassionate as Sol to help. Meanwhile, my sister has very generously offered to help me with those remaining tasks during her break from grad school. (This is probably good practice for her; she’s going to be a social worker, and I have no doubt there’ll be many a client in similar situations to mine. Still, it’s damn nice of her to spend her vacation helping me out, but then she’s awesome that way.)

The emotional part involves my old _bete noire_, over-empathizing with things. God, even after four days of baring all my ridiculous neuroses in this thread, I’m _still_ embarrassed to acknowledge this weird attachment to inanimate objects! Anyway, the worst part of the week was getting rid of my recliner, _aka_ Oliver. One of my maintenance guys took the chair down to the curb since today is Big Trash Day, and after he\* left, I suddenly felt horrible and weepy. Maybe it was just the accumulation of all the dozens of other things I decided to throw out over the past week, I dunno. I immediately went down to my sister’s apartment and tearily asked her if I was a horrible person for throwing Oliver away. Of course, she said all the right things and I eventually felt somewhat less guilty. (There’s that social work curriculum in action! Actually, not really; she’s innately compassionate and supportive.)  
\*

- I shall leave it up to you, dear reader, whether by “he” I am referring to the maintenance guy or the chair.\*

Anyway, tonight she took some “after” photos, and at long last you can see just how awful things were and how much better they are now. Unfortunately I realized afterward that we didn’t get precisely similar angles, which would’ve made the before/after shots more striking, but I’m pretty sure you’ll get the idea.

1. [The Bathroom](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/de-cluttering/bathroom_bef_aft.jpg) (I showed these earlier in the thread, but just in case some missed it…)

2. [The Kitchen](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/de-cluttering/kitchen_before.jpg) (That “before” photo reveals the answer to the recycling debate! Also I wish you could see the floor in the ‘before’ picture, because it was just sinfully gross. Now it’s… well, the tiles still suck, and it still bugs me that they weren’t attended to before I moved in, but they’re as good-looking and, most importantly, _clean_, as they’re gonna get. You also can’t see this but Sol cleaned the insides of all the appliances, including the toaster and microwave, and my barely-used George Foreman grill!)

Oy. Now, these last two pics are the hardest for me to reveal, because they show you just how awful things were just five days ago–and for a very, very long time before that. All right, deep breaths, **choie** :

1. [Shelves/table area](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/de-cluttering/shelves_before.jpg)

2. [A slightly wider view of the main section of my apartment](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/de-cluttering/all_before.jpg)

I wish there were more but frankly there’s not much more to my apartment anyway! I can definitely say I feel much more at peace with the apartment, and it feels more like a home and less like a prison. There’s still plenty to do. In addition to the tasks I mentioned above, there are the bookshelves to clean out (and thanks for the rec re: VVA, **Motorgirl**!).

Once the books are done, I will _definitely_ ask my super for a paint job, and after that, I’ll attend to the floor, which desperately needs to be deep cleaned, stripped and waxed. It’s a parquet floor, which I know many find charming but to me it just means dozens of more cracks for gunk and dust to accumulate. I vastly prefer good ol’ fashioned planks or whatever you’d call a plain wood floor. Anyway, I’ll get this done either via my maintenance guys (if I can get it done in-house without too much extra expense) or from an outside company. And I think more shelving will help tremendously too. I’d like white shelves so they’ll look more like built-ins.

Oh and I’ll almost definitely forego the chaise lounge. I just don’t see where it would go considering my current set-up. If I had a sofabed instead of a regular bed and a sofa (the one I’ll be getting for free from my neighbor), I’d want the extra chair and there’d be space for it. But right now I don’t see it fitting. It’s a shame, because it really looked comfy as hell.

And thus endeth this five-day adventure into my chaotic apartment and even more chaotic brain. You’re all probably tired of me saying this, but say it I must: I am _so_ extraordinarily grateful for your ongoing support and cheerleading during this saga. I appreciate your generosity and lack of judgment, I can’t tell you how much it’s meant to me to read your own stories (those who have dealt with this issue, either on your own or via loved ones) and to know that I had a group of warm, friendly folks out there who were actually rooting for me instead of being grossed out. Then again, that was before you’d seen pictures #3 and #4.

I hope anyone who’s reading this and has similar issues, and has felt stuck in the quagmire of shame and paralysis, will feel free to contact me if you want some support, and maybe we can find a similar cleaning service in your area who’ll give you your own Sol. And wow, it’s only now that I realize how appropriate the alias I gave him has been. Sol – and all of you on the SDMB – brought some light back into my home, and into my life. For a depressed person fighting darkness every hour of every day, even a single ray of sunshine must be treasured.

Of course I’ll be happy to answer any other questions anyone has. And hopefully in a month I’ll be back with pictures of a newly painted apartment with a gleaming floor.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/99 "2012-05-05T07:59:37Z")

</div>

I have been lurking in this thread since the beginning. I just want to say that your progress is inspiring, and I think it’s sweet that you feel too much empathy, even for inanimate objects. I hope you are able to keep this feeling of accomplishment that’s showing through in your recent posts. I struggled with a similar hoarding problem, although for different reasons.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\
**Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-hopefully-soon-to-be-former-hoarder-clutterer/620303/100 "2012-05-05T08:59:39Z")

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> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#):
>
> Thank you, I think the point that I’m wrong to suggest someone else come to her home and take the metal off her hands for recycling has been hammered home quite well.

Please don’t take it personal! I think we were all excited for **choie** and didn’t want any backsliding.

> [@choie](#):
>
> Oy. Now, these last two pics are the hardest for me to reveal, because they show you just how awful things were just five days ago–and for a very, very long time before that. All right, deep breaths, **choie** :

I’m so sorry **choie**. I really am. I feel sorry for you, because it is clear that you are delusional in that those pictures are not anywhere as bad as what I was assuming.🙂

If you want to see something awful, you should go to my sister’s place. (And say “hi” to her, I can’t bear visiting her apartment.) It’s _that_ bad. It had gotten so filled with “stuff” mixed up with garbage that only one person would walk on the trails between the junk. Both she and her partner have OCD, among other issues, and they just piled more junk on top of the previous junk.

My aunts’ houses are much, much worse. (Three of the five girls in my mom’s family are similar, my mother is OK, and one sister is super clean.)

So congratulations! Keep up the good work and enjoy your new found space.

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