# Ask the Icebear (aka guy who visits brothels) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476 "2011-09-24T19:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/201 "2013-06-17T11:53:43Z")
I agree. I once knew a guy in a situation similar to joecool1983. Difficult to understand, but for every odd lifestyle there seem to be people living it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/202 "2013-10-06T18:52:35Z")
This is fascinating, thanks “Icebear”. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/203 "2013-10-07T16:58:28Z")
Heh… you’re welcome. Although I’d answer a lot of questions differently nowadays… if not most of them. ---
**Author:** ![Depakote\_Chopra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@Depakote\_Chopra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Depakote_Chopra)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/204 "2013-10-07T18:37:03Z")
**polar bear** , if you don’t mind answering to some more questions, are FKK Clubs kind of selective on men they let in ? By that I mean, despite the fact you end up in a bathrobe, do you still have to be well dressed when you ring the bell ? Also, is the female talent usually diverse in looks (including tattooed/pierced girls à la _Suicide Girls_) ? ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/205 "2013-10-08T14:55:12Z")
> [@Depakote\_Chopra](#): > > **polar bear** , if you don’t mind answering to some more questions, are FKK Clubs kind of selective on men they let in ? By that I mean, despite the fact you end up in a bathrobe, do you still have to be well dressed when you ring the bell ? > > Also, is the female talent usually diverse in looks (including tattooed/pierced girls à la _Suicide Girls_) ? Well… as far as I can tell they don’t really care how you are dressed. It’s all about making money, so the more men the better. This is all within reason, if they think you’re going to cause trouble they will refuse you. So big groups might find it difficult to get in, if you’re drunk they could refuse you… drunk groups, well that’s kinda obvious. There are a couple of clubs that are known for refusing certain minorities (mostly Turkish immigrants)… which means that anyone that looks similar might have trouble getting in; but I can only think of two clubs where you would really say they don’t let any minorities in. The looks are fairly diverse, but the large majority is caucasian and from Eastern Europe (especially Romania). Many fake blondes. Tats and piercings are common as hell, finding a girl without tattoos is rarer. Many girls with names and other text, so you probably won’t find girls with whole ‘sleeves’… but even those are around sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![jharvey963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@jharvey963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharvey963)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/206 "2013-10-08T23:31:32Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > Heh… you’re welcome. Although I’d answer a lot of questions differently nowadays… if not most of them. I’m curious what you mean by this. Are you now turned off to FKK clubs? If so, was it due to a bad experience? Has your FKK club experience affected your “normal” life in some negative way? Are you in a relationship now, so frequenting the clubs is out of the question? Thanks, J. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/207 "2013-10-09T08:43:46Z")
> [@jharvey963](#): > > I’m curious what you mean by this. Are you now turned off to FKK clubs? If so, was it due to a bad experience? > > Has your FKK club experience affected your “normal” life in some negative way? > > Are you in a relationship now, so frequenting the clubs is out of the question? > > Thanks, > J. Ohh… no, nothing like that. I probably go to Germany more than when I started this thread… it’s just that I’d answer many questions very differently. Mostly by becoming better informed/experiencing more. In some cases I was a bit naive. Some points I’d have different answers to, or at least more specific answers. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Do you use condoms? Is that a requirement for the health of the girls and the clients? How do women view these places- normal as going to a gym or skeevy and they’d be upset if their brother went to one? > [@Projammer](#): > > I don’t know what the racial/nationality mix is there, but to workers/patrons tend to self segregate to different clubs? In other words, do some clubs have a higher patronage of Dutch or French or blacks/whites? > [@ecoaster](#): > > polar bear- > 2. When not at the club, how often are you thinking about being there? Would you consider your time there a healthy balance in relation to other parts of your life? > 4. Maybe you’ve covered this, but how many times have you been in your life/how many different women have you been with? > [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Do the girls pay taxes? > > Do they have other jobs? > > Do you get some kind of repeat business bonus, like a stamped card. Ten screwings and your 11th is free 🙂 I am partially serious. > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > What was your best time? > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Does any of this officially take place outside the club building itself? > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is it considered embarrassing to go to these clubs, then? Do you worry that someone will find out you do it? > [@AaronX](#): > > Are condoms the only contraception they use? What happens if they get pregnant? > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Do guys ever just buy up a girl (or girls) for an entire day? As in “I’m going to sit around and get drunk and stuff my face with food. I’ll give you 8 hours worth of pay to keep me company” a la _Leaving Las Vegas_? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/208 "2013-10-09T08:50:05Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > Some points I’d have different answers to, or at least more specific answers. Pretty sure a lot of people would enjoy reading about your these different or more specific answers now that your knowledge of the Way of the Whore has increased. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/209 "2013-10-09T08:55:33Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Pretty sure a lot of people would enjoy reading about your these different or more specific answers now that your knowledge of the Way of the Whore has increased. I might just do that, when I find some time… now it’s time for work though:). ---
**Author:** ![Mrmanface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mrmanface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrmanface)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/210 "2013-10-09T11:46:47Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > Hell, I’m a girl who gets to have great sex with my hot husband any time I want, and even I see the appeal. > > Private club where you drink all day, hang out in a hot tub, watch porn, and are surrounded by beautiful women begging to fuck you? Seriously, that’s a pretty easy fantasy to get into. Yes but at what cost ? The girls are being treated like pieces of meat and subjected to amazing acts of humiliation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/211 "2013-10-09T11:58:26Z")
> [@Mrmanface](#): > > Yes but at what cost ? The girls are being treated like pieces of meat and subjected to amazing acts of humiliation. Kinda like working behind the counter at McDonalds, but better money. ---
**Author:** ![StJoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@StJoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StJoan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/212 "2013-10-09T11:59:36Z")
Since this 3-yr old thread is still active, how do you feel about doing business with a girl who may have been trafficked, or otherwise forced in to prostitution? And if you avoid dealing with them, how do you identify them in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Mrmanface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mrmanface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrmanface)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/213 "2013-10-09T13:04:16Z")
> [@StJoan](#): > > Since this 3-yr old thread is still active, how do you feel about doing business with a girl who may have been trafficked, or otherwise forced in to prostitution? And if you avoid dealing with them, how do you identify them in the first place? They’re no trafficked… lmao… You been watching too much television. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/214 "2013-10-09T13:40:44Z")
> [@Mrmanface](#): > > Yes but at what cost ? The girls are being treated like pieces of meat and subjected to amazing acts of humiliation. Strong words from someone who just recently posted that 19 year old Romanian whores just love their jobs. “Happy hookers” I beleive you said . You suggested that sucking cock in a German sex club is a most fulfilling life for them. So, which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Depakote\_Chopra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@Depakote\_Chopra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Depakote_Chopra)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/215 "2013-10-09T18:01:43Z")
For those worried about objectification of women in FKKs, there exists (as, erm, personal research has revealed) an even more liberal form of brothel in Germany : the _Pauschalclub_, or flat-rate brothel. Basically, you pay a cover fee of usually €100 and it is all-inclusive : you can stay the whole day and have sex with as many girls as you want. The catch is that (from the pictures I’ve seen on sites (google for instance Saarparadies if curious)) girls seem more trashy and frumpy than in FKKs. I wonder if **polar bear** has visited those. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/216 "2013-10-09T20:09:32Z")
> [@Depakote\_Chopra](#): > > For those worried about objectification of women in FKKs, there exists (as, erm, personal research has revealed) an even more liberal form of brothel in Germany : the _Pauschalclub_, or flat-rate brothel. > > Basically, you pay a cover fee of usually €100 and it is all-inclusive : you can stay the whole day and have sex with as many girls as you want. The catch is that (from the pictures I’ve seen on sites (google for instance Saarparadies if curious)) girls seem more trashy and frumpy than in FKKs. > > I wonder if **polar bear** has visited those. Actually there many, many of these clubs. They are either calles Pauschalclubs or Partytreffs. When the first Pauschalclubs started popping up, there was a strict distinction with the partytreffs (which were around for a while back then) mostly having one room where different couples can go at it… Pauschalclubs took this one time, all in payment structure, but made it more like FKK and saunaclubs by having the sex take place in individual rooms. Nowadays most Partytreffs have optional private rooms and Pauschalclubs often have public options as well. Prices can be as low as E50 for your cheaper Partytreffs, with fairly unattractive women, up to a standard of E150 for your better Pauschalclubs. What girls is concerned, the ‘Pauschalclub’ chain (in three locations: Bochum, Munster and Dortmund) is considered the best… there are pics on the website. Still no real comparison to some of the girls in FKK clubs. I’ve been to a Pauschalclub once (years ago)… it was busy and it really wasn’t my kind of thing. > [@StJoan](#): > > Since this 3-yr old thread is still active, how do you feel about doing business with a girl who may have been trafficked, or otherwise forced in to prostitution? And if you avoid dealing with them, how do you identify them in the first place? Well, this is bound to come up… I won’t go into trafficing too much, as it will become a discussion on definitions and the like. But let’s focus on girls that don’t want to be there. The only thing you really can do is to make sure the girl wants your business. Something that is relatively easy to do in a club, compared to windows/incall/outcall. So the focus is more on how she approaches you, than on where the money ends up/how she got there. If you talk to the girls, they’ll all mention how they were ‘forced’ into it… forced by the bad economic conditions back home. And you can see their point when they tell you, they just made more on you than her mother does in a month. That being said, many girls have ‘boyfriends’ that do little else (or so it seems) than mooching of their girlfriends. If you feel something like that is being ‘forced’ into the job, then you shouldn’t visit the clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Mrmanface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mrmanface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrmanface)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/217 "2013-10-09T21:29:58Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Strong words from someone who just recently posted that 19 year old Romanian whores just love their jobs. “Happy hookers” I beleive you said . You suggested that sucking cock in a German sex club is a most fulfilling life for them. > > So, which is it? The lack of IQ points on this forum is amazing. Is it not possible to be degraded and humiliated, yet at the time enjoy it ? Are you saying people never enjoy things, that they latter regret ? ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/218 "2013-10-09T21:47:54Z")
> [@Mrmanface](#): > > The lack of IQ points on this forum is amazing.[…] You’ve been here for a very short time. I suggest you take some time to look into the forum rules, especially regarding insults. The Cliff’s Notes is “don’t, except in the Pit, and there under certain limitations.” You’ll have a better time here if you’re familiar with them. And don’t bother trying to play games to get around them. Gukumatz IMHO Moderator ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/219 "2013-10-11T14:55:32Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Pretty sure a lot of people would enjoy reading about your these different or more specific answers now that your knowledge of the Way of the Whore has increased. Just some additional/more correct information about the things going on in the clubs. Back when I did this thread, I was pretty sure in saying BJs where without condom… but that actual sex really only happened with condom. Let’s say I was a little naive in that. Bareback sex is far more common than I’d have ever expected. After getting some experience in making sure you have the right mood before you go to a room/picking the right girls, you’ll also get in situations where this is offered/happens. Once you start talking to other frequent club goers, it becomes clear just how common it is (probably not if you look for it though). Lately there seems to be kind of an ‘epidemic’ in that it is becoming more and more normal (both guys and gals)… you also notice this on the forums, where it has become far more normal to discuss bareback sex than when I started… familiar screen names don’t mind admitting to it anymore. It is kind of unclear if this is just more openness or more condomless sex; probably a bit of both. What ‘pregnancies’ is concerned, I would still think most girls are very carefull… but it must be said that you sometimes have a girl leave for a few months, only to come back with a little one back home. Generally you hope it was by the ‘boyfriend’, but yeah… It is kind of unbelievable how some girls say they don’t take the pill (for whatever reason)… even in some of the clubs where bareback sex is the norm (as in advertised). Mindblowing. The whole bit about men meeting girls outside the club is also far more common then I’d ever thought. Given the way I schedule my trips, I still haven’t done it… but it is fairly common (especially with a regular client). Going shopping, having dinner, celebrating birthdays in a hotel, girls staying at someone’s place if she hasn’t got her own set up yet. Some clubs don’t like it, but others don’t care. In one place there is a hotel at about 100 meters (many club visitors stay there) and it is fairly common to have a girl stay there with a guy; either after having a longish session earlier in the club, or a girl might just ask a man she knows if she can come to the hotel with him (so she doesn’t have to sleep in the club itself). For me there is one very cute regular girl that keeps pushing to spend a day outside, but in all honestly I wouldn’t know what to do with her for a day (she is kind of the direct/physical type). Long bookings are fairly common as well. Especially during the week (quiet), regulars will often just pay a fixed amount for the whole day… and do this weekly. For some this leads to a lot of stuff outside the club as well. In any case, many guys have a spare phone filled with girls’ phonenumbers… I must admit that for my next phone I’m sort of thinking of getting a dual sim phone. Nowadays I just get rolling eyes, when I tell them I don’t have whatsapp:). For taxes the girls pay a one time fee for the whole day… or they can declare all earnings and file for proper income taxes. I believe the German girls need to do this. The girls also need to be registered at the chamber of commerce (or the tax agency, I forgot which exactly)… sometimes there are checkups and girls get sent home if they haven’t got their paperwork in order. If you’d like to meet some of the men responsible for trafficking/pimping: just look up the guys who thought this up. There is more of a racial divide in clubs than I would have thought. There is a whole range of ‘Turkenpuffs’, that are mostly frequented by immigrants. Here it is more common to have shorter sessions (20 in) for less money (30/25E). Apparently these guys are mostly interested in quick sex, so these clubs cater to that (kissing is very rare in these places). As alluded to before, a few clubs go the other way and won’t let immigrants in at all. I must say that I understand the clubs a bit, since there are plenty of (white) men that value this… and more than a few girls have said they work in a particular club because the ‘Turks’ aren’t allowed in. That’s all I can think of for now. ---
**Author:** ![savoysuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@savoysuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/savoysuit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476/220 "2013-10-14T08:55:07Z")
hello mr. polar bear! This thread has been a fascinating read… very interesting indeed. Thanks for all your helpful information. I am wondering about the safety of these places. Obviously I understand that activities of this sort naturally can carry some sort of risk. I’m wondering if the girls in the fkk clubs (Berlin specifically) are pretty clean? Do they shower in between each session? Do they get tested? And, if you don’t want to answer this I understand… but have you ever caught something nasty from your experiences? If you did, was it from an fkk club? thanks! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-icebear-aka-guy-who-visits-brothels/597476.md?page=12)