# Ask the Left-Wing Alt-Right Prick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383 "2017-09-26T23:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/61 "2017-09-27T17:30:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What if you want to talk about men, but not trans men or, to use your word, cis men? what word do you use? Well, who are we talking about? I think that covers it (though maybe intersex men? I admit to not being totally up on this). Help me understand who you’re talking about. Describe a man who is neither cis nor trans. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/62 "2017-09-27T17:32:59Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > If your answer to those questions is no, they why do you object to the adjective “cisgendered”? I can’t speak for him, but I don’t like the word because its etymology is dodgy at best and (perhaps as a result) it simply sounds stupid. This isn’t a big enough problem to justify making fifty posts about it and dominating the thread with it, mind you. But I do dislike the word itself. If somebody comes up with an alternative that covers the meaning and doesn’t sound awful, I’d cheerfully answer to it, rather than begrudgingly like I do to the ‘cis-’ abomination. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/63 "2017-09-27T17:40:59Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > Also, as far as I’m aware, there’s no single word to describe someone who does have their ears pierced, or who does have a cleft palate, so those aren’t particularly good examples. > > Polydactyly is a good example though. There’s oligodactyly but as far as I know there’s no single word for having the ordinary number of fingers and toes. But if someone coined one (mesodactyly, maybe?), it would be ridiculous to claim that that word is offensive, just because it applies to the majority of people. Acoustic guitars used to just be “guitars”. When electric guitars came along, it became useful to have a term for the ones that weren’t electric. I’m sure there were people who hated electric guitars. “Traditional guitars sound great; why do we need these new, strident, screechy electric guitars?” If you were a guitar player, you’d probably spent years of your life getting good at it and now you had this whole new thing come along just when things were perfect, but such is life. That was decades ago, and acoustic guitars haven’t gone away. Things change. You can accept it, you can try to anticipate it and lead the change, or you can get mad and rail against it. What you can’t do is stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/64 "2017-09-27T17:45:57Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I can’t speak for him, but I don’t like the word because its etymology is dodgy at best and (perhaps as a result) it simply sounds stupid. > > This isn’t a big enough problem to justify making fifty posts about it and dominating the thread with it, mind you. But I do dislike the word itself. If somebody comes up with an alternative that covers the meaning and doesn’t sound awful, I’d cheerfully answer to it, rather than begrudgingly like I do to the ‘cis-’ abomination. Unfortunately, that’s not how language works. I’m very much a prescriptivist at heart and my default position for invented words or usage is to resist. “Cisgendered” has been around for a couple of decades, though. It’s moved naturally from fringe academic speak to common parlance. There’s nothing stopping you from picking a new term and trying to get people to use it. You’re more than welcome to say, “I’m not cisgendered, I’m beg-gendered.” Some people may even acquiesce. The irony, of course, is that the people who would most readily call you what you **want** to be called are the very sorts of people who have normalized words like “cisgendered.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/65 "2017-09-27T17:51:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Neither trans men _or_ cis men? What’s that leave, again? People who don’t identify as either trans or cis. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/66 "2017-09-27T17:55:26Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > Does that apply to all adjectives? Do you object if someone calls you “brown-haired”, or whatever color your hair is? > > If someone said, “You have five fingers on each hand, that means you’re pentadactyl.” would you object to being labelled? > > If someone said, “You’re attracted to the opposite sex, that means you’re heterosexual.” would you object to being labelled? > > If your answer to those questions is no, they why do you object to the adjective “cisgendered”? Yes, I object to being labeled anything by anybody who isn’t me. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/67 "2017-09-27T17:56:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Unfortunately, that’s not how language works. I’m very much a prescriptivist at heart and my default position for invented words or usage is to resist. “Cisgendered” has been around for a couple of decades, though. It’s moved naturally from fringe academic speak to common parlance. > > There’s nothing stopping you from picking a new term and trying to get people to use it. You’re more than welcome to say, “I’m not cisgendered, I’m beg-gendered.” Some people may even acquiesce. > > The irony, of course, is that the people who would most readily call you what you **want** to be called are the very sorts of people who have normalized words like “cisgendered.” I’d never say I’m not cisgendered - I’d say I hate the word. Because of its properties as a word. The damn thing is _ugly_. But it’s not ugly enough to freak out and claim I’m not it. That’s crazy talk. It would be like claiming you’re not human because the word sounds too much like “hummus”. Nutbar talk. But I _would_ refrain from choosing to use the word myself, because I hate it. It should burn. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/68 "2017-09-27T18:00:26Z")
I think I might’ve been rolling your POV in with other people in the thread. I agree with you that it’s not a pleasing word. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/69 "2017-09-27T18:02:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > People who don’t identify as either trans or cis. Interestingly, my response to this is the same thing that would piss off trans people - I’m not particularly interested in people who reject definitions. You can say that you’re not a human, you’re an airplane, and run around with your arms out making wooshing noises, and I will stubbornly keep calling you a human. (Among other things.) Fortunately for all concerned, I have had little or no contact with people whose gender doesn’t match their sex. Because if it walks like a male and talks like a male and has the physical body of a male, it’s a duck. And saying so would not make me popular. But I thing I can get away with being unpopular with _you_. You’re cis. Suck it up. Yes, the word is awful, but you (and I) are stuck with it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/70 "2017-09-27T18:04:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, I object to being labeled anything by anybody who isn’t me. Exactly the kind of thing I’d expect a labelphobe to say. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/71 "2017-09-27T18:10:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But I thing I can get away with being unpopular with _you_. You’re cis. Suck it up. Yes, the word is awful, but you (and I) are stuck with it. Sorry, but that offends me. You dirty offender! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/72 "2017-09-27T18:11:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Exactly the kind of thing I’d expect a labelphobe to say. I’m not a labelphobe, and I am…Hey! No labels! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/73 "2017-09-27T18:13:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, I object to being labeled anything by anybody who isn’t me. I honestly find it very hard to believe that you would object if someone called you brown-haired (if that’s your hair color), or human, or American, or heterosexual, or male, or adult, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/74 "2017-09-27T18:17:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I honestly find it very hard to believe that you would object if someone called you brown-haired (if that’s your hair color), or human, or American, or heterosexual, or male, or adult, etc. Well, I have a name. I would rather be called that. And how would someone know if I’m American, or heterosexual, or even male? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/75 "2017-09-27T18:22:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > People who don’t identify as either trans or cis. Describe that person. You seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that these words are just “labels” that are arbitrary and have no meaning. Or that “identify” means “I just want you to call me this made-up thing because no reasons.” You’re not cis because I want to label you randomly. You’re cis because there is a functional reason for needing to describe “men who are not trans.” The word “men” doesn’t work because it includes trans men. The fact is that “man” is a broad and imprecise term. Sometimes it’s good enough. But sometimes one needs to be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/76 "2017-09-27T18:24:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I have a name. So this is a realistic conversation from your perspective: Bob: “I’m looking for somebody named manson1972 - do you know him?” Me: “Yeah, he’s the brown-haired dude over there.” You: (overhearing) “Excuse me, I object to being labeled as ‘brown-haired’ or ‘dude.’” Or is it more of a silent rage any time somebody uses adjectives around you? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/77 "2017-09-27T18:26:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I have a name. I would rather be called that. And how would someone know if I’m American, or heterosexual, or even male? If they’re an acquaintance, or a friend? Would you object to them saying “Americans like us”, or “veterans like us”, or “heterosexuals like us”…? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/78 "2017-09-27T18:27:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > So this is a realistic conversation from your perspective: > > Bob: “I’m looking for somebody named manson1972 - do you know him?” > Me: “Yeah, he’s the brown-haired dude over there.” > You: (overhearing) “Excuse me, I object to being labeled as ‘brown-haired’ or ‘dude.’” > > Or is it more of a silent rage any time somebody uses adjectives around you? How would you know I’m a dude? Isn’t that assuming my gender? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/79 "2017-09-27T18:30:00Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Describe that person. > > You seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that these words are just “labels” that are arbitrary and have no meaning. Or that “identify” means “I just want you to call me this made-up thing because no reasons.” > > You’re not cis because I want to label you randomly. You’re cis because there is a functional reason for needing to describe “men who are not trans.” The word “men” doesn’t work because it includes trans men. > > The fact is that “man” is a broad and imprecise term. Sometimes it’s good enough. But sometimes one needs to be more specific. I understand they have meaning. Just like “Male” and “Female” and “Man” and “Woman” have meaning. I also know that there are people who don’t identify with any of those terms. How would you refer to someone who doesn’t identify as trans or cis? Or are you under the impression that every single person on the planet can be categorized as either “transgender” or “cisgender”? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/80 "2017-09-27T18:31:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they’re an acquaintance, or a friend? Would you object to them saying “Americans like us”, or “veterans like us”, or “heterosexuals like us”…? If I’ve previously identified myself as “American” or “a veteran” or “heterosexual” then no, I wouldn’t object. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383.md?page=5)