# Ask the Left-Wing Alt-Right Prick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383 "2017-09-26T23:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/101 "2017-09-27T19:51:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So does that mean that you subscribe to the idea that every person on the planet can be categorized as cisgender or transgender? A simple yes or no will suffice. Here are two categories: 1. People who’s gender matches what was on their birth certificate 2. People who’s gender does not match what was on their birth certificate Can you illustrate what the third category is and who it is that doesn’t fit into either of these categories? Next example, also two categories: 1. People who are named Bob 2. People who are not named Bob Can you tell me what person would not fit into either category? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/102 "2017-09-27T19:53:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I have never, not once, advocated for the use of the word “normal” to describe someone who isn’t transgender. You also have not yet offered any alternative to cisgender for those that are described by the word cisgender. Do you have a suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/103 "2017-09-27T19:57:22Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You also have not yet offered any alternative to cisgender for those that are described by the word cisgender. > > Do you have a suggestion? In the spirit of the past few posts, I’d like to point out that “not transgender” is always an option. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/104 "2017-09-27T20:03:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Here are two categories: > > 1. People who’s gender matches what was on their birth certificate > 2. People who’s gender does not match what was on their birth certificate > > Can you illustrate what the third category is and who it is that doesn’t fit into either of these categories? > > Next example, also two categories: > > 1. People who are named Bob > 2. People who are not named Bob > > Can you tell me what person would not fit into either category? Those are definitely two different examples of a pair a categories. Nice job! How about 3) People who don’t identify with any gender, regardless of what is on their birth certificate. That sound like a good category to you? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/105 "2017-09-27T20:04:17Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You also have not yet offered any alternative to cisgender for those that are described by the word cisgender. > > Do you have a suggestion? I would never suggest what other people should call themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/106 "2017-09-27T20:07:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Those are definitely two different examples of a pair a categories. Nice job! > > How about 3) People who don’t identify with any gender, regardless of what is on their birth certificate. That sound like a good category to you? So their gender identity does not match what is on their birth certificate, therefore they fall into category two. You still have not found a person that would not fit into either category. Maybe less with the attempts at humor and more with the critical thinking. Here’s a clue from mathematics: The set A + !A = infinity ---
**Author:** ![Zetetic\_Skeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Zetetic\_Skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zetetic_Skeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/107 "2017-09-27T20:09:56Z")
Whooda thunk this thread would wind off into this? It’s very entertaining!!!🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/108 "2017-09-27T20:10:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I would never suggest what other people should call themselves. Cool so everyone else can go ahead and keep using the word, and you can make up your own word for yourself. Sounds like a plan. Also sounds like you are just going to confuse everyone and end up having to explain yourself every time you use your special word, but that’s your prerogative I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/109 "2017-09-27T20:12:05Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So their gender identity does not match what is on their birth certificate, therefore they fall into category two. Do they? So in your opinion, someone who is gender fluid is also transgender? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/110 "2017-09-27T20:12:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I have described such a person. A person who neither identifies as transgender nor cisgender. What do you mean “identify”? I’ll quote myself here: > [@](#): > > You’re cis because there is a functional reason for needing to describe “men who are not trans.” The word “men” doesn’t work because it includes trans men. > > The fact is that “man” is a broad and imprecise term. Sometimes it’s good enough. But sometimes one needs to be more specific. I’m gonna be sloppy and just quote some google definitions here: **Cisgender:** denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex. **Transgender:** denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex. Both of these people exist. They exist _regardless of what word you use to describe them_. They exist _regardless of what word they use to identify themselves_. So, again, if there is a person who does not fit into either of those definitions, I’d like you to spell out, roughly, what the defining characteristics of that person. > [@](#): > > Not necessarily true, unless you subscribe to the idea that all people on the planet are either cisgender or transgender. Is that what you think? I don’t know. Like I said, I’m not an expert, and my experience/education does not contain all knowledge. I already mentioned intersex people; I’m not sure if they count as maybe a third gender, or if in fact all gender is on a spectrum and that man and woman are just useful words to describe a critical mass of traits at either end of that spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/111 "2017-09-27T20:13:13Z")
> [@Zetetic\_Skeptic](#): > > Whooda thunk this thread would wind off into this? It’s very entertaining!!!🙂 It’s better than the stupid recipes that people were doing in the past. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyMac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@JohnnyMac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyMac)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/112 "2017-09-27T20:13:50Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So their gender identity does not match what is on their birth certificate, therefore they fall into category two. You still have not found a person that would not fit into either category. > > Maybe less with the attempts at humor and more with the critical thinking. > > Here’s a clue from mathematics: > > The set A + !A = infinity There are some agender and genderqueer folk who don’t like to be called trans, but generally speaking Airbeck is right, most people still consider them to fall under the trans umbrella. Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/113 "2017-09-27T20:14:20Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Cool so everyone else can go ahead and keep using the word, and you can make up your own word for yourself. Sounds like a plan. Also sounds like you are just going to confuse everyone and end up having to explain yourself every time you use your special word, but that’s your prerogative I guess. Sure, what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/114 "2017-09-27T20:17:29Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I don’t know. Like I said, I’m not an expert, and my experience/education does not contain all knowledge. I already mentioned intersex people; I’m not sure if they count as maybe a third gender, or if in fact all gender is on a spectrum and that man and woman are just useful words to describe a critical mass of traits at either end of that spectrum. Strange that you don’t know the answer, but yet proclaim that someone is cisgender just because they are not transgender. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/115 "2017-09-27T20:18:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do they? So in your opinion, someone who is gender fluid is also transgender? My opinion is that you are not very good at the whole logic thing. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/116 "2017-09-27T20:19:20Z")
But, **manson1972** why don’t you step up and give us some of your thoughts? Tell us what you think. Do you think everyone is either cis or trans, and if not say who they are. “A person who neither identifies as transgender nor cisgender” is no answer. And really, I’m not sure your point in all this. Are you arguing that maybe there are _more_ gender terms that might be useful? If so, I’m sure most of the people you’re arguing with would give a resounding, “hey, let’s talk more about that!” Or, do you think that men should just be called men, based on what kind of genitalia they were born with? Or, something else? You’ve yet to actually put forth a position in all this, and your series of leading questions and lack of direct answers are both tiresome and non-constructive. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/117 "2017-09-27T20:19:50Z")
> [@JohnnyMac](#): > > There are some agender and genderqueer folk who don’t like to be called trans, but generally speaking Airbeck is right, most people still consider them to fall under the trans umbrella. > > Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk Do they? That’s not what I have read. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyMac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@JohnnyMac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyMac)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/118 "2017-09-27T20:21:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do they? That’s not what I have read. It’s my experience, yes. Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/119 "2017-09-27T20:26:39Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > But, **manson1972** why don’t you step up and give us some of your thoughts? Tell us what you think. Do you think everyone is either cis or trans, and if not say who they are. “A person who neither identifies as transgender nor cisgender” is no answer. > > And really, I’m not sure your point in all this. Are you arguing that maybe there are _more_ gender terms that might be useful? If so, I’m sure most of the people you’re arguing with would give a resounding, “hey, let’s talk more about that!” > > Or, do you think that men should just be called men, based on what kind of genitalia they were born with? > > Or, something else? > > You’ve yet to actually put forth a position in all this, and your series of leading questions and lack of direct answers are both tiresome and non-constructive. The only position I’ve put forth is “Don’t call me cisgender” Questions are only “leading” if they lead up to something. I simply wanted to know what the poster’s thoughts were on the subject. Is that a crime? Wanting to know what someone thinks? As for direct answer - I was under the impression that there were people who were neither cisgender nor transgender. Gender fluid comes to mind, among others. If that’s wrong, then someone can correct me. As for anything else, I’ll call people whatever they want to be called. I no more care about someone’s gender than I do about their sex, orientation, marital status, skin color, heritage, or whatever. People should be treated as people. Consenting adults should be allowed to do anything that doesn’t hurt others. People should be able to be whatever they feel they are. It’s not hard, really. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383/120 "2017-09-27T20:26:59Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Strange that you don’t know the answer, but yet proclaim that someone is cisgender just because they are not transgender. I’ve stated multiple times that I am no expert, and am interested in discussion. I’ve also asked you to put forth your opinion about some specific questions. You seem to have no interest in taking a position or engaging in discussion. But I’ll say this one more time: Based on the understood definitions of the words transgender and cisgender, every person is one or the other. As far as I understand it. I am happy to talk about ways in which that binary is or is not a useful or functional categorization. And I’ll ask one more time: do you quibble with the definitions? Do you dispute that all people can be described by one word (and its associated meaning) or the other? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-left-wing-alt-right-prick/797383.md?page=7)