# Ask the Militia Guy! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916 "2002-12-19T22:43:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/21 "2002-12-20T13:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pythagras \* > **Why do you feel the UN is so powerful when it relies so much on the permission of other, many times squabling, nations?** In my opinion the U.N. threatens the sovereignty of _all_ nations, regardless of internal politics. Squabbling certainly hasn’t stopped the numerous “peace keeping missions” over the years, and we’ve seen how _those_ have turned out… > [@](#): > > \*\*Wouldnt it be smart to avoid diplomatic isolation and join the squable? \*\* No. The militia believes the U.S. is a sovereign nation, existing under the grace of God. We view no other country or organization (i.e. UN) as being our “equal.” ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/22 "2002-12-20T13:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > **just how paranoid are you?** No more paranoid than the freedom fighters of 1776… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/23 "2002-12-20T14:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > if the preverbal SHTF, the citizens will need someone to defend the them at the local level Do you feel this job is not being adequately performed by US military, National Guards, and Federal, State and Local law enforcement organizations who are actually trained in do this job? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > Simple – when “they” start shooting. The militia is strictly defensive, and thus we never initiate conflict. We _respond_ > to threats. \*\* But how will you know who “they” are? If some armed US Marshals show up on your doorstep, do you plan to go quietly or baracade yourselves in and fight it out like Waco or Ruby Ridge? Would your group defend the rights of say…Muslim immigrants being rounded up in internment camps or blacks being chased by lynch mobs or does freedom only extend to Americans of Anglo/Christian ancestry? Are there any gays, minorities or women in your militia group? What makes you feel that you have the right to represent all or most Americans in armed conflict? (Compared to the US Military and law enforcement which is a volunteer force under the command of duly elected officials) ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/24 "2002-12-20T14:57:19Z")
> [@](#): > > a) Foreign troops on our soil acting as a “police force” > b) U.N. troops on our soil acting as a “police force” > c) Firearms ban > d) Random checkpoints (“I vont to see your papers, please…”) Out of curiosity, how do you feel when the US or UN act on foreign soil as a “police force”? Or do you prefer a more isolationist policy? ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/25 "2002-12-20T15:25:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*The militia believes the U.S. is a sovereign nation, existing under the grace of God. We view no other country or organization (i.e. UN) as being our “equal.” \*\* I completely understand the concept of isolationism and, if I were a US citizen, it might be a policy I would espouse. What I don’t understand is the concept of not regarding any other country as being “equal”. I am Irish and proud of my country and heritage but I would never suggest that other countries are anything less than “equal”. What is the basis for this inequality (by which I presume you mean American superiority)? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/26 "2002-12-20T15:30:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I am Irish and proud of my country and heritage but I would never suggest that other countries are anything less than “equal”. What is the basis for this inequality (by which I presume you mean American superiority)? I _think_ he means that no other country is equal in its right to create law that governs the US. As in, the US should answer to the US and no one else. At least, I _hope_ that’s what he meant, although it’s not clearly worded. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/27 "2002-12-20T16:16:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > **Do you feel this job is not being adequately performed by US military, National Guards, and Federal, State and Local law enforcement organizations who are actually trained in do this job?** The U.S. military is primarily tasked to respond to _international_ threats. The National Guard has evolved into a branch of the federal armed forces. Law enforcement agencies do not defend the inalienable rights of the people; instead, their job is to simply “maintain order” at any cost. This is where the militia comes in. Our _primary_ role is to _defend_ the _inalienable rights_ of the people against all systematic threats, whether they be foreign or domestic. No other agency or group is tasked to perform this duty. > [@](#): > > **But how will you know who “they” are?** “They” is anyone who systematically forbids the people from practicing their inalienable rights. > [@](#): > > **If some armed US Marshals show up on your doorstep, do you plan to go quietly or baracade yourselves in and fight it out like Waco or Ruby Ridge?** I will hand over items listed on the warrant, if that’s what you mean. > [@](#): > > **Would your group defend the rights of say…Muslim immigrants being rounded up in internment camps or blacks being chased by lynch mobs or does freedom only extend to Americans of Anglo/Christian ancestry?** Certainly. > [@](#): > > **Are there any gays, minorities or women in your militia group?** No, but they’re certainly welcome to join. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*What makes you feel that you have the right to represent all or most Americans in armed conflict? (Compared to the US Military and law enforcement which is a volunteer force under the command of duly elected officials) \*\* I don’t know if “represent” is the applicable term here. If someone’s inalienable rights are threatened, and no one is defending them, then we will respond. ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/28 "2002-12-20T16:17:56Z")
That would make a lot more sense, thanks. So, I’ll amend my question. Is there no room whatsoever for internationally binding treaties or the rule of international law? Does this apply equally outside of the US? ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/29 "2002-12-20T16:21:05Z")
And, in view of your last post, which I didn’t see, how are the inalienable rights of the rest of the world’s population to be defended in the absence of international law? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/30 "2002-12-20T16:24:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > \*\*Out of curiosity, how do you feel when the US or UN act on foreign soil as a “police force”? Or do you prefer a more isolationist policy? \*\* For the most part I am against using our military as an international police force. As mentioned above, I don’t want foreign military troops on _our_ soil; I presume citizens of most other countries feel the same. But there are circumstances when I think it’s O.K. for our troops to fight overseas (WWII comes to mind). Every situation is different. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/31 "2002-12-20T16:31:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > \*\*I completely understand the concept of isolationism and, if I were a US citizen, it might be a policy I would espouse. What I don’t understand is the concept of not regarding any other country as being “equal”. I am Irish and proud of my country and heritage but I would never suggest that other countries are anything less than “equal”. What is the basis for this inequality (by which I presume you mean American superiority)? \*\* My previous post was poorly worded. In one sense, every country is “equal” in “legal” terms, i.e. all countries have a right to exist, make their own laws, etc. etc. But many Americans (and probably most militia members) believe America is the greatest country on earth. (If I _didn’t_ believe this, I would pack up my belongings and move.) We believe “God has shed His grace on thee.” ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/32 "2002-12-20T16:35:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > **I _think_ he means that no other country is equal in its right to create law that governs the US. As in, the US should answer to the US and no one else.** You are correct, **Kyla**. Here’s the way it (supposedly) works in the U.S.: The _government_ is accountable to the _people_, and the people are accountable to _God_. With the exception of treaties, foreign entities do not enter into this equation… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/33 "2002-12-20T16:37:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > \*\*Is there no room whatsoever for internationally binding treaties or the rule of international law? Does this apply equally outside of the US? \*\* I don’t have a problem with treaties per say, but I do have a problem with them being _on par_ with the Constitution. But that’s another topic… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/34 "2002-12-20T16:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > **How are the inalienable rights of the rest of the world’s population to be defended in the absence of international law?** A good question with (obviously) no simple answer. As explained above, the militia defends U.S. Citizens on _our_ soil from foreign or domestic threats… ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/35 "2002-12-20T17:44:54Z")
How do you feel about drunk driver/ auto insurance registration stops where the local police systematically stop people and check their papers? If our elected congress passes a treaty it becomes law. So if congress passes a treaty allowing say a police officer from another country (lets say a Canadian Mountie) look for a Canadian Criminal in your county what would you do? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/36 "2002-12-20T18:22:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zebra \* > **How do you feel about drunk driver/ auto insurance registration stops where the local police systematically stop people and check their papers?** I’m against it, as most people are. But I don’t think it can be defined as tyranny, since driving is not an inalienable right. Asking _pedestrians_ for their papers would be a different story… > [@](#): > > **If our elected congress passes a treaty it becomes law. So if congress passes a treaty allowing say a police officer from another country (lets say a Canadian Mountie) look for a Canadian Criminal in your county what would you do?** Not for a Canadian citizen. When we say to “foreign troops on our soil,” we’re referring to a situation where foreign troops are “policing” U.S. citizens on U.S. soil. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/37 "2002-12-20T18:37:21Z")
Some of the right-Wing Extremist Militia members advocated overthrowing the government (federal, State, and County) branding ANY government employee as an enemy. Even Postal delivery and Department of transportation would be under siege. If the government were to be replaced/restored by Militia appointees, how do they justify the preemption of the elections of the People? Whose to say someone else won’t attack the Militia Provisional Government? ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/38 "2002-12-20T18:37:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*I don’t have a problem with treaties per say, but I do have a problem with them being _on par_ with the Constitution. But that’s another topic… \*\* Ok, I’ll bite- what do you mean by this? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/39 "2002-12-20T19:00:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enola Straight \* > \*\*If the government were to be replaced/restored by Militia appointees, how do they justify the preemption of the elections of the People? Whose to say someone else won’t attack the Militia Provisional Government? \*\* Who’s advocating a “Militia Provisional Government”? Government belongs to the people, not the militia. The last thing we need is a government replaced/restored by militia or military appointees… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/40 "2002-12-20T19:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blanx \* > \*\*Ok, I’ll bite- what do you mean by this? \*\* I don’t want to get too off topic here, but it is my understanding that treaties (as defined in the Constitution) have just as much “authority” as the Constitution itself. Some consider it a “loophole” for amending the Constitution. I’m not a Constitutional scholar by any means, so I could be off base here. Perhaps someone else can elaborate on this or (if necessary) correct me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916.md?page=3)