# Ask the Militia Guy! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916 "2002-12-19T22:43:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/41 "2002-12-20T19:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enola Straight \* > \*\*Some of the right-Wing Extremist Militia members advocated overthrowing the government (federal, State, and County) branding ANY government employee as an enemy. Even Postal delivery and Department of transportation would be under siege. > > If the government were to be replaced/restored by Militia appointees, how do they justify the preemption of the elections of the People? Whose to say someone else won’t attack the Militia Provisional Government? \*\* I think that he has already pointed out that he is not one of these extremists, so I don’t think that anything he posted in answer would be more than conjecture. What we need is a total conspiracy-nut job to answer questions. That would be interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/42 "2002-12-20T19:29:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by My Darn Snake Legs \* > \*\*What we need is a total conspiracy-nut job to answer questions. That would be interesting! \*\* Yea, I have a feeling I may have disappointed some folks responding to this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/43 "2002-12-20T19:59:02Z")
You said that if an officer of the law shows up at your door, “I will hand over items listed on the warrant, if that’s what you mean.” When would you disobey an officer of the law, assuming the officer is enforcing laws enacted by the state / federal legislature? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/44 "2002-12-20T20:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*You said that if an officer of the law shows up at your door, “I will hand over items listed on the warrant, if that’s what you mean.” > > When would you disobey an officer of the law, assuming the officer is enforcing laws enacted by the state / federal legislature? \*\* When I believe such laws are unconstitutional and violate my inalienable rights. For the record, I am a law-abiding person and have a perfectly clean criminal record. But I must also admit that laws are written by mortals, and are therefore sometimes _bad_. I draw the line when I believe such laws are _also_ unconstitutional; this explains why Rosa Parks is my hero. ---
**Author:** ![Blueapple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Blueapple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blueapple)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/45 "2002-12-20T23:33:41Z")
You have mentioned God many times in this thread. What do you think about the separation of church and state? (I don’t want to hijack this thread into a church/state argument, but was wondering about your views on this issue) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/46 "2002-12-20T23:58:06Z")
If a law officer was trying to enforce a law that you thought was unconstitutional (let’s say arresting you for something illegal, that you think should be legal due to your interpretation of the constitution), would you feel justified in using weapons in self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/47 "2002-12-21T00:35:19Z")
What are “inalienable rights”? Do only American citizens have “inalienable rights”? You believe that God has shed his grace, uniquely, upon America. What portion of the entity that is “America” do you mean? The land? The concept of democracy? What is it about America that is special or different, that makes you think that it is above other nations in the eyes of God? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/48 "2002-12-21T02:03:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blueapple \* > **You have mentioned God many times in this thread. What do you think about the separation of church and state?** Church and state must be separated. We currently have a secular government, as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/49 "2002-12-21T02:14:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*If a law officer was trying to enforce a law that you thought was unconstitutional (let’s say arresting you for something illegal, that you think should be legal due to your interpretation of the constitution), would you feel justified in using weapons in self-defense? \*\* I am under no moral duty to obey laws that I think are immoral and/or unconstitutional; neither are you. I am also a defender of liberty. Does this adequately answer your question? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/50 "2002-12-21T02:38:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shelbo \* > **What are “inalienable rights”?** Many people believe you are _born_ with certain rights. We call these rights _inalienable_. By definition, these rights are not given to you by the government, laws, or the people; you’re simply born with them. > [@](#): > > \*\*Do only American citizens have “inalienable rights”? \*\* No. Every human born on this earth has inalienable rights. Unfortunately, these rights are usually confiscated upon birth. > [@](#): > > **You believe that God has shed his grace, uniquely, upon America. What portion of the entity that is “America” do you mean? The land? The concept of democracy?** The people. > [@](#): > > \*\*What is it about America that is special or different, that makes you think that it is above other nations in the eyes of God? \*\* For whatever reason it may be, we believe the citizens of the U.S. are uniquely blessed by God. I really don’t know why; I’m just thankful this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/51 "2002-12-21T03:56:11Z")
## "Are there any gays, minorities or women in your militia group? No, but they’re certainly welcome to join." How exactly do you know there are no gay people or atheists (I think atheists are a minority, anyway…) in your group? Did you poll them? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/52 "2002-12-21T04:29:50Z")
If the possession of firearms is regulated to the point that you are obliged by statute to surrender your firearms, will you surender them and then pursue the issue of constitutionality through the courts, or will you simply shoot the officer who tries to take your guns away from you. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/53 "2002-12-21T04:48:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\* > For whatever reason it may be, we believe the citizens of the U.S. are uniquely blessed by God. I really don’t know why; I’m just thankful this is the case. \*\* I’m a genuinely curious about this, so please don’t think I’m busting your chops: When did this blessing occur? At the time of the Constitution? Are newly naturalized Citizens blessed by God? Hawaiians? What about people that are living in Guam or Peurto Rico? Thanks for this thread, by the way. I am learning a lot about a subject I thought I understood. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/54 "2002-12-21T11:50:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \*How exactly do you know there are no gay people or atheists (I think atheists are a minority, anyway…) in your group? Did you poll them? \*\* Jeeze, you guys miss nothing. 😉 Let me rephrase… I do not _believe_ there are any gays or atheists in our group. This is based on what I know about each individual, and includes marital status, church membership, etc. But there’s always room for error on my part. Besides, I really wouldn’t care if someone were gay or atheistic to begin with… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/55 "2002-12-21T11:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*If the possession of firearms is regulated to the point that you are obliged by statute to surrender your firearms, will you surender them and then pursue the issue of constitutionality through the courts, or will you simply shoot the officer who tries to take your guns away from you. \*\* I will never surrender my firearms, and will defend myself against anyone attempting to steal them from me. With force, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/56 "2002-12-21T12:16:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shelbo \* > **When did this blessing occur? At the time of the Constitution? Are newly naturalized Citizens blessed by God? Hawaiians? What about people that are living in Guam or Peurto Rico?** I must admit I’m having a difficult time addressing this issue. This isn’t your fault; it’s primarily due to _my_ inability to talk articulately on the subject. Those of us in the militia, along with a significant portion of the U.S. population, believe the citizens of this great country have been uniquely blessed by God. This notion (I believe) originated during the 18th century in the writings of certain patriotic orators and preachers. Even some of what our Founding Fathers wrote can be interpreted as such. _Who_ is uniquely blessed? Any citizen who believes the ideals this country was founded on. This includes life, morality, liberty, individualism, humility, justice, appreciation, and the pursuit of happiness. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/57 "2002-12-21T13:08:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Muffin_ > **If the possession of firearms is regulated to the point that you are obliged by statute to surrender your firearms, will you surender them and then pursue the issue of constitutionality through the courts, or will you simply shoot the officer who tries to take your guns away from you.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*I will never surrender my firearms, and will defend myself against anyone attempting to steal them from me. With force, if necessary. \*\* I have grave concerns about those who place themselves over both the legislature and the judiciary in a functional democracy, particularly when such people are willing to kill rather than permit the lessening of their means of killling. I am of the opinion that the legislature and the judiciary in a functional democracy should decide who has the right to own guns and who has the right to kill people. Consequently, I believe that individuals and militia that believe that they have the right to kill people rather than obey the legislature and judiciary in a functional democracy are both treasonous and profoundly un-democratic, not to mention just plain physically dangerous. My question then is how do you distinguish yourself from a terrorist group that belives that it should not be bound by the legislature and judiciary, other than that your particular button concerning possession of firearms has not yet been pushed. ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/58 "2002-12-21T15:22:46Z")
How do you and the militia members you know generally evaluate the Patriot Act and the creation of the Homeland Security Department? Do you think that it threatens our freedoms? If so, how does this change the generally Republican alignment of the militia movement? Certain conservative politicians, notably Congressmen Barr and Armey, have recently forged an alliance with the ACLU. What do you think of the ACLU? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/59 "2002-12-21T16:11:28Z")
Well, according to the founding fathers, we are all in the “militia”. But I know what you mean. Are there any woman in your militia? If not, why not? If so, how many? What is the oldest and youngest members? I do think it is great that you exercise a tradition started by our founding fathers! It is a great old Swiss and American custom! The people I know who would join a militia, dont, because we hear that there are too many undercover FBI and BATF guys in those militias like yours. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916/60 "2002-12-21T16:30:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*How do you distinguish yourself from a terrorist group that belives that it should not be bound by the legislature and judiciary, other than that your particular button concerning possession of firearms has not yet been pushed. \*\* First of all, terrorists groups tend to be _offensive_; the militia is strictly _defensive_. Secondly, terrorists groups often inflict terror upon common citizens; by contrast, the militia _defends_ these citizens. We see ourselves as being no different from the patriots who fought during the Revolutionary War. If you believe we are terrorists, I must ask you: Do you also believe Patrick Henry was a terrorist? Thomas Jefferson? George Washington? You mentioned the “legislature and judiciary.” We enthusiastically support and defend our _system_ of government, and its structure as defined in our Constitution. But what do we do if the _ **people** _ who make up the legislature and judiciary want to use force to take away our inalienable rights? What recourse do we have? Do we shrug our shoulders and say, “Oh well, those are the ‘rules,’ and that’s the way it is.” Or do we fight? Let me explain another way: We are free, sovereign citizens. The government is a _contractor_ working on our behalf – not the other way around. We are the master; the government is the servant. Its job is to _protect_ our inalienable rights. If this contractor stabs us in the back by _taking_ our inalienable rights instead of _protecting_ them, we have the right to _fire_ said contractor. This is accomplished by “corrective processes” defined in our Constitution (voting, representation, judicial decisions, impeachment, etc.) It’s a _wonderfully_ effective system. But it’s not perfect. For example, what happens if the contractor is _still_ bent on stealing our rights after all normal channels have been exhausted? What do we do then? Roll over and accept it? The freedom fighters of 1776 didn’t. Neither will we. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-militia-guy/143916.md?page=4)