# Ask the Mormon **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 21, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971 "2003-03-21T02:31:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/61 "2003-03-21T20:16:34Z")
Thanks FBG. I heard that there were many errors made in the BOM, something like 4000. Is that true? Is it possible that the BOM has be translated incorrectly? FWIW, I have many versions of the Bible, and all but 1 or 2, say something different. (IMHO)I think that the reason there are different denominations is because many people want the Bible to say what they want it to say, rather than let it say what it says. Does that make sence? ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/62 "2003-03-21T20:28:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*I heard that there were many errors made in the BOM, something like 4000. Is that true? > \*\* I don’t know where the 4000 number came from. There have been some changes in the BOM since it was first published, most of them spelling or punctuation corrections, and things like that. I don’t know of any instance where anything has been changed which alters the original meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Seldon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/63 "2003-03-21T20:56:00Z")
**pepperlandgirl** , while I was writing that, I was asking myself the same thing. Why don’t I tell them to leave me alone? I don’t know. It makes my mom happy, but it sure makes those ladies uneasy when I’m out having a ciggarette when they arrive. I guess I also believe that these women will be there in the event that I’m in some disaster that I could leave my children with them. When I lived in CA, I did try to get them to leave me alone, but they still kept calling, probably at the insistance of my mother. I don’t know. The ladies who come over now have an unspoken understanding with me. They bring a copy of the lesson they’re supposed to give, and leave it with me to read later. Our sessions are more about “how are you doing lately” than preaching. Funny thing is, the lessons they leave for me to read, I usually do. Probably because of their respect of my not wanting to be preached at. It works for me, and relieves me of being mean to people who are actually quite nice. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/64 "2003-03-21T21:05:10Z")
While the size and blondeness of my family often lead to the question “Are you Mormon?”, I’m not. (I always replay, “No, we’re just crazy.”) I did, however, learn to respect Mormons’ willingness to meet questions head on. I was on a business trip with a Mormon when someone, with no provocation, just laid into the LDS faith like I’ve never heard. (Not even the atheists in the pit on Christians.) This guy handled it beautifully and with more class than any other individual I’ve ever seen. Now that I’m done sucking up, 1. You can’t dring warm beverages? Not even hot chocolate or warm milk? 2. I drink a lot of herbal “teas”. Are they ok? No Doz? 3. The scientific health community seems to have come to the conclusion that a beer a day is a good cardio disease preventative for many people. Would it take a revelation to change the LDS perspective? 4. Is the term Mormon considered prejorative? I just can’t say LDSer. 5. Shortly after the Christian persecutions ended in the Roman Empire, there was a “debate” about wether the post (e.g., bishop) conferred the ability to perform sacred rituals, such as communion/mass, or the condition of the giver. The LDS name is evocative of those who sided against Augustine. (I can’t remember the name of the heresy.) a) Is it? b) Do you perform a last supper based ritual? c) What if a priest/minister/pastor/bishop (what do you call them?) commits an egregious sin, does he lose his role? d) If one of the above takes a position that is later found to be in error, are their ramifications? e) What would constitute a pardonable sin or error. (Parking offense, ok, murder, you’re out.) Where, or is, a line drawn? 6. One aspect of LDS history that creates suspicion outside of it, is the timing of some revelations. E.g., joining the Union requiring the ban of polygamy. (And, until this thread, the purchase of Coke or Pepsi, whichever it is.) What is the LDS explanation w.r.t. the timing? ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/65 "2003-03-21T21:27:26Z")
I was reading up on this, and I found this quote from Joseph Smith: “the Book of Mormon is the fullness of the everlasting gospel.” What does he mean when he says fullness? What about everlasting? I hope I am not being to much of a pain! I think that most of the errors found in the BOM were minor, but an ex Mormon (a friend of mine) said this was changed: 1 Nephi 11:21 which changed from “Behold the Lamb of God, yea, and even the eternal Father” to “Behold the Lamb of God, yea even the son of the eternal Father.” I would have to do a more indepth search on it of course, but I figured why not ask an active member before I do that. What’s your take on this? Also, is there any archaeological evidence for the BOM? For example, the Bible has a lot of archaeological evidence for other civilizations. And if so, where can I read up on this? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/66 "2003-03-21T21:35:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Why don’t I tell them to leave me alone? I don’t know. It makes my mom happy, but it sure makes those ladies uneasy when I’m out having a ciggarette when they arrive. I guess I also believe that these women will be there in the event that I’m in some disaster that I could leave my children with them. I can understand that. I resisted distancing myself from the Church for a long time because I didn’t want to give up the community—living in a place with no other family or friends, it didn’t make a lot of sense to push away the ready-made community. But they finally wore me down… I can also understand the whole mom thing. I’ve been an atheist for like 2 years and completely inactive for 2 years before that, and I sitll haven’t told my mom. I don’t need that kind of shit in my life… ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/67 "2003-03-21T21:35:50Z")
**SlowMindThinking** I’ll try to answer you here, at least as much as I can. **1) You can’t dring warm beverages? Not even hot chocolate or warm milk? 2) I drink a lot of herbal “teas”. Are they ok? No Doz?** The things specifically prohibited are: Coffee and Tea Alcholic Beverages Tobacco Products Illegal Drugs Anything else (as others have stated here) we are expected to use our own wisdom and judgement. **3) The scientific health community seems to have come to the conclusion that a beer a day is a good cardio disease preventative for many people. Would it take a revelation to change the LDS perspective?** Yes. **4) Is the term Mormon considered prejorative? I just can’t say LDSer.** Although the term was originally used as an insult by anti-Mormons, we have adopted it and are very comfortable with the term. **5) Shortly after the Christian persecutions ended in the Roman Empire, there was a “debate” about wether the post (e.g., bishop) conferred the ability to perform sacred rituals, such as communion/mass, or the condition of the giver. The LDS name is evocative of those who sided against Augustine. (I can’t remember the name of the heresy.) a) Is it?** Sorry, I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking here. Anybody else want to jump in? **b) Do you perform a last supper based ritual?** Yes, it’s called the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper, or usually just The Sacrament. This is done weekly in our worship service to remember Christ and to renew our baptismal covenants. **c) What if a priest/minister/pastor/bishop (what do you call them?) commits an egregious sin, does he lose his role?** Our local leaders are called bishops, and yes, they would be punished, as would any member, for major sins. Penalties would be determined by the High Council of the Stake (stake is similar to a Diocese, in that it is a group of congregations, or Wards). Normally if someone with a high calling, such as a bishop were to commit a major sin, he would be excommunicated, but other options are available. **d) If one of the above takes a position that is later found to be in error, are their ramifications?** People in the church are allowed to express their opinions, with the understanding that only the President of the Church can proclaim doctrine. If a bishop or other member consistently teaches contrary to church doctrine, he will probably be counseled by someone over him. **e) What would constitute a pardonable sin or error. (Parking offense, ok, murder, you’re out.) Where, or is, a line drawn?** There is no hard and fast line, AFAIK, and a lot would depend on the individual circumstance. However, I’m sure that anything classified as a felony or any moral transgression would qualify. Bearing in mind WRT these last few questions, there is always the possibility of repentance and forgiveness, although the seriousness of the offense may make repentance more difficult. **6) One aspect of LDS history that creates suspicion outside of it, is the timing of some revelations. E.g., joining the Union requiring the ban of polygamy. (And, until this thread, the purchase of Coke or Pepsi, whichever it is.) What is the LDS explanation w.r.t. the timing?** One of the nice things about revelation is that it allows changes in policy/procedure, etc (but not in basic doctrine) as needed for particular times and circumstances. There are plenty of examples in the Old and New Testament where revelations were given specifically in response to existing conditions. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/68 "2003-03-21T21:46:54Z")
> [@](#): > > e) What would constitute a pardonable sin or error. (Parking offense, ok, murder, you’re out.) Where, or is, a line drawn? I know a person who was ex-communicated for commiting adultry repeatedly and disregarding the Word of Wisdom. But ex-communication (or the lesser, dis-fellowship) isn’t as bad as it sounds. It’s designed to give you a fresh start. Ifyou are excommunicated, all of the covenants (from baptism on up) are void. You can rejoin the church after a certain amount of time (A year I believe) and get rebaptized, etc, like a new member, and you would be virtually given a clean slate. well, that’s how I always understood it. My seminary teachers told me this, and as some can tell you, seminary teachers have been known to…mis-state the truth…on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/69 "2003-03-21T21:52:05Z")
I’ll tackle this one more, but then I’m going to be gone for a while, so **cadolphin** or **genie** feel free to jump back in. \*\*I was reading up on this, and I found this quote from Joseph Smith: “the Book of Mormon is the fullness of the everlasting gospel.” What does he mean when he says fullness? What about everlasting?\*\* Just like it sounds. Fullness means completeness, and everlasting means eternal, or without end. In other words, the Book of Mormon contains the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. Not to say that we don’t need anything else, but that everything vital to our salvation is in there. \*\*I think that most of the errors found in the BOM were minor, but an ex Mormon (a friend of mine) said this was changed: 1 Nephi 11:21 which changed from “Behold the Lamb of God, yea, and even the eternal Father” to “Behold the Lamb of God, yea even the son of the eternal Father.” I would have to do a more indepth search on it of course, but I figured why not ask an active member before I do that. What’s your take on this?\*\* Not familiar with this particular instance, but bear in mind the method by which the original (1830) Book of Mormon was printed. Joseph Smith translated from the plates and dictated aloud to his scribe (usually Oliver Cowdery) on the other side of a curtain. The scribe wrote down the words as he heard them. This manuscript was then given to a (non-Mormon) printer who typeset and printed it. Yes, there probably were some errors of this nature which were later found and corrected. **Also, is there any archaeological evidence for the BOM? For example, the Bible has a lot of archaeological evidence for other civilizations. And if so, where can I read up on this?** There are several archeological sites in South America which have similarity to things mentioned in the BOM, but unfortunately I’m not an expert, and don’t have any good cites handy. See you later, FBG ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/70 "2003-03-21T22:26:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*I know a person who was ex-communicated for commiting adultry repeatedly and disregarding the Word of Wisdom. But ex-communication (or the lesser, dis-fellowship) isn’t as bad as it sounds. It’s designed to give you a fresh start. Ifyou are excommunicated, all of the covenants (from baptism on up) are void. You can rejoin the church after a certain amount of time (A year I believe) and get rebaptized, etc, like a new member, and you would be virtually given a clean slate. > well, that’s how I always understood it. My seminary teachers told me this, and as some can tell you, seminary teachers have been known to…mis-state the truth…on occasion. \*\* That’s true up to a point, but it’s by no means automatic. You have to show evidence of sincerely repenting and forsaking your sins. Sometimes it takes much longer than a year, and sometimes it never happens. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/71 "2003-03-21T22:27:34Z")
For those of you who don’t know, my Aunt passed away this week and her funeral is tomorrow. In addition, one of my “cat children” has a terminal condition and has almost passed away twice in the last 8 days. Shae is having a GREAT day today! But I can’t say the same for me… just want to let you know, I’m not abandoning the thread that I started, but it has turned into _our_ thread, which I see as being a great thing 😃 I don’t want to let anyone down, but I need to take care of me too. Let me take a little nap and then I’ll be back and address my personal marital situation questions and whatever else I can. See ya’ll soon 🙂 Kathy ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/72 "2003-03-21T22:36:36Z")
This is not a question as such, and I’m not LDS. I wanted to share the best explaination I know of why details about the Temple are sacred and not to be shared: A husband and wife may kiss and hug in public, but in the bedroom what they do is private and sacred and not to be shared. It isn’t shameful or dirty, but if either told details outside the bedroom it would be considered a violation of trust and the relationship between husband and wife. In a similar (obviously non-sexual!) way, what happens in Temple is sacred between each person and their Heavenly Father and to share it outside would be a violation of that trust and relationship. I never quite got it, being an athiest myself, until I heard this analogy. Twiddle ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/73 "2003-03-21T22:55:59Z")
Those of you who’ve been members of (or have at least had significant exposure to) other faiths, or other denominations of Christianity: what is it about Mormonism in particular that spoke to you? Why choose this faith – or do you feel that it was a choice at all? (Of course, I’m happy to hear from people who’ve been lifelong LDS members, as well, but that’s a different, equally valid perspective.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/74 "2003-03-21T23:44:15Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Shortly after the Christian persecutions ended in the Roman Empire, there was a “debate” about wether the post (e.g., bishop) conferred the ability to perform sacred rituals, such as communion/mass, or the condition of the giver. The LDS name is evocative of those who sided against Augustine. (I can’t remember the name of the heresy.) Donatism, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/75 "2003-03-22T00:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dragline \* > \*\*A mormon minister/leader/elder(?) who was trying to recruit me at the time (around the time of the “black” revelation) told me that revelations come by way of God himself, in flesh and blood, sitting down in the president of the church in Salt Lake, and discussing it with the him face to face. He had pretty good rationalizations for some of the other stuff, but I couldn’t buy that one. > > ``` > True? ** > > ``` This is a Big Question for me too. Exactly what _is_ a revelation? I was told the same thing as **Dragline**. Man, that’s a hard one. :dubious: Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/76 "2003-03-22T01:03:03Z")
Oh dear. This has gotten out of control; I can’t keep up! 🙂 Let’s see, where was I? **Interrobang** (neat name!), there are a few LDS members who don’t eat chocolate for those reasons, but they are few. It’s probably fairly well known that the brethren (that is, the Prophet and the Twelve) like chocolate just fine, and we need _some_ vices, right? 🙂 Sugar is ours. I love chocolate, and dip my own every year–but some LDS women I’ve known scare me a little with their chocolate capacity. Herbal teas are another area where you make up your own mind. Plenty of Mormons drink them; I do myself every once in a while. Some don’t. Hot chocolate is a favorite. I have no idea how well coffeehouses do in Utah. I’ve never lived there. And now for **Seldon**. I’m a woman, so I guess you’re asking me in part. First, I don’t know that I’d agree that I’m ‘subject to man’s law at home.’ The [Proclamation on the Family](http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,FF.html) says " In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners." It also says that the men preside. Well, as I see it, the priesthood is an obligation and responsibility of service and love, not dominion and power. We don’t subscribe to the ‘surrendered wife’ ideas; we’re a little different. At any rate, I certainly consider myself an equal partner in my own marriage; we make decisions together, and other people’s arrangements aren’t really much of my business–I can’t speak for them. Families adapt to the circumstances they have. Plenty of LDS moms have to work, and there are (!) even some SAHDs around; my BIL is planning on staying home, for one, but I’ve known several. The way I look at it is, mothers do have that responsiblity to make sure their children are being taken care of, but they don’t always and ever have to do it themselves. If being a SAHM drives you nuts, then probably it isn’t a good idea for your family, but that’s for you to decide. (I enjoy it quite a bit, personally. But that’s me.) The main point is that career is not more important than family well-being, for either parent. I dunno about some men who only want to deal with your husband. There are men like that everywhere, IME (the guy who runs my sewing machine’s dealership talks only to the man I’m with if I’m not alone, despite the fact that I’m the one waving around the $2000 check–I’d leave, but I want a Bernina more than I want to deprive him of my business). Maybe they’re sexist, maybe they’re nervous, maybe they’re only supposed to show up if the husband is willing to have them. Anyway, I don’t see myself as a ‘secondary subject’ in any way. I do consider myself a feminist, FWIW. I see the women in the Church doing a lot of good, and I think they’ve always done so; I’m proud of the heritage I see from the early women Church members. The women I know are capable of many, many things, and I don’t consider raising children to be a small accomplishment. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/77 "2003-03-22T01:26:47Z")
Is it true that there’s a Mormon conspiracy to keep Carmen Rasmusen from being voted off American Idol? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/78 "2003-03-22T02:09:52Z")
Is the general situation described in **SandiMama** ’s first post a true one? I don’t want to pry, or to criticize, but this is similar to what the RCC used to teach. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/79 "2003-03-22T02:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Twiddle \* > \*\*This is not a question as such, and I’m not LDS. > > I wanted to share the best explaination I know of why details about the Temple are sacred and not to be shared: > > A husband and wife may kiss and hug in public, but in the bedroom what they do is private and sacred and not to be shared. It isn’t shameful or dirty, but if either told details outside the bedroom it would be considered a violation of trust and the relationship between husband and wife. In a similar (obviously non-sexual!) way, what happens in Temple is sacred between each person and their Heavenly Father and to share it outside would be a violation of that trust and relationship. > > I never quite got it, being an athiest myself, until I heard this analogy. > > Twiddle \*\* That is the very best analogy I have every heard! Thank you so much for sharing it. Now, whenever I’m asked in the future, I’ll know a better way to explain it 😃 Kathy ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/80 "2003-03-22T02:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*I am an ex-Mormon, though I’ve found religion to be a fascinating subject. I’ll respond to Bob55’s link, if one doesn’t mind. > > First off, most of those “comparisons” take speeches or words out of context, or apply exact language definitions in areas where one source is in its original language, while the other is a translation. Obviously, some technical errors of nomenclature exist. > Mormonism holds that man’s spirit may ascend to the point where he, too, becomes a God in his own right, set to guide his own universe as he deems fit. Obviously, this results in a “plurality of Gods”, as Bruce R. McConkie is quoted as saying, yet only _one_ God _for us_. > > An analogy: There are numerous CEO’s in the world, but only one for a particular company. > To understand this one, you have to understand the timeline that Mormonism espouses. Prior to our universe’s creation, it is held that God was God. Ergo, as far as we, of this universe, are concerned, God has been eternal. However, Mormonism teaches that there have been existences long before our universe was created. > Similar criticism to that above… the attempt at slamming the LDS church is simply the result of being ignorant of the scale of time that Mormonism looks at with its beliefs of the pre-existence. > I see no criticism here, other than a selective - bordering on dishonest - taking of quotes out of context. Mormonism espouses that a soul is not truly ascended until it is Resurrected, as Jesus was… after Resurrected, body and soul are united for all time. Obviously, the person is still an “angel” (or a spirit). They just have a body. > > If you like, I can get more into this. But by now, I’m starting to see just how much that “criticism” site will twists words. > Another criticism that’s ignorant on the matter of degree. Mormonism holds that, prior to our universe’s creation at the hand of God, all souls that have existed or will exist (in our universe) were already there, and chose their “side” prior to creation. Obviously, go back farther than that, and there will be a point where those souls did not exist, or something. Don’t ask me how reproduction happens in the pre- or after-life. > Now this one’s just a plain silly criticism, nitpicking the semantics of religious texts that have existed since Genesis. > > The “sins” that are referred to is the sin of denying God and Jesus after having known his (His?) gospel. Christ said that in order to receive forgiveness, you must ask for it… obviously, someone who won’t ask for it won’t receive it. > Getting more and more absurd as I progress. No wonder Cadolphin didn’t want to waste his (her?) time with it. > > In any case, saying “Jesus is God” or “God is Jesus,” in Mormonism, anyway, is akin to calling Batman and Robin the dynamic duo. Mormonism has consistently referred to God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost as separate entities - ones who work closely together, but separate entities - that comprise the Godhood. To claim that the totality of the Book of Mormon claims otherwise demonstrates an ignorance of the book. > Now this is silly, and blatantly wrong. Mormonism does believe in a Hell (called “Outer Darkness” so they can mention it when the 5-year-olds are about)… however, it believes that it is very, very, very difficult to be damned to Hell. For example, your garden-variety murderer won’t be sent to Hell… he or she will simply wind up in the Slums of Heaven, as it were. > I don’t see this as a criticism… simply a matter of hyperbole coupled with belief. Essentially, Mormonism holds that religions such as Catholicism have strayed from the true gospel, and that only it serves as the restored church. This is a consistent belief, and again, any who claim that the BoM says otherwise is either being dishonest or hasn’t read the book. > Now things have become absurd. To even give this criticism any validity, one must assume that God has already given his children a perfect knowledge of everything. > > Lemme just scan ahead really quick… > > Yup, yup, it just gets worse. Caldolphin, don’t worry in the slightest about not even bothering with that site. I’m not even in the church anymore, and even I recognize it to be rubbish. \*\* Superb…simply superb **SPOOFE**!!! Kathy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971.md?page=5)