# Ask the Mormon **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 21, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971 "2003-03-21T02:31:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/101 "2003-03-22T05:48:09Z")
that was it! thank you **pepperlandgirl** ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/102 "2003-03-22T05:50:16Z")
Well mangeorge, if I get there and see that God does, in fact, exist, you can damn well bet that I’d be accepting the ordinances (well, the ones I haven’t got already) and repenting for my sins. I’d have no reason not to. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/103 "2003-03-22T05:53:57Z")
And if I get there and find out I’m all wrong, I’ll be “stuck” with a psychopath forever. Sounds like hell to me… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/104 "2003-03-22T06:02:36Z")
Oh yeah, I want to make that clear—if the LDS God exists, I’ll accept the whole thing. If the sociopath worshipped by most exists, I’ll give him a hearty “Fuck You” as he sends me to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/105 "2003-03-22T06:13:49Z")
Here we have a well-known (to Mormons, that is) chart of the [Plan of Salvation](http://lds.about.com/library/weekly/previousyears/aa011499.htm). You can click on most of the stages, but it’s not completely running; sorry. Here is the relevant section from the Doctrine and Covenants: > [@](#): > > [1-4](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/1-4#1), The Lord is God; [5-10](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/5-10#5), Mysteries of the kingdom will be revealed to all the faithful; [11-17](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/11-17#11), All shall come forth in the resurrection of the just or the unjust; [18-24](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/18-24#18), Inhabitants of many worlds are begotten sons and daughters unto God through the atonement of Jesus Christ; [25-29](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/25-29#25), An angel of God fell and became the devil; [30-49](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/30-49#30), Sons of perdition suffer eternal damnation; all others gain some degree of salvation; [50-70](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/50-70#50), The glory and reward of exalted beings in the celestial kingdom; [71-80](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/71-80#71), Those who shall inherit the terrestrial kingdom; [81-113](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/81-113#81), Status of those in the telestial, terrestrial, and celestial glories; [114-119](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/114-119#114), All the faithful may see the vision of the degrees of glory. The basic idea is that people who keep all their covenants, repent, etc. go to the Celestial Kingdom. Those who never had the opportunity to hear or understand the gospel in life get that chance in the Spirit World after death, and that’s why we’re so big on genealogy and proxy ordinances like baptism for the dead; we want everyone to have the chance. Generically good people who don’t accept all this, or who had the chance on earth and refused despite the Spirit’s testimony to them, go to the Terrestrial Kingdom. People who aren’t very good go to the Telestial Kingdom; still a kingdom of glory, but much less than the other two. Those who know God and Christ completely, and reject them completely, go to Outer Darkness (aptly named, since it would logically be outside all creation). Basically, it all comes down to where you want to be, how close you really want to be to God. If you truly want to spend eternity in God’s presence, that will be what you get to do. If that doesn’t sound so great, you are free to live further away. God doesn’t force people to go anywhere they really can’t stand; they get to go where they’ll be happiest. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/106 "2003-03-22T06:17:12Z")
Dang. I pressed Submit instead of Preview. I was going to rewrite all that stuff. The problem is that we just don’t know all that much about anything, except how to get to the Celestial Kingdom; logically enough, God only tells us how to reach the highest levels. So what I’ve written there is only the barest outline, and reality is, I think, somewhat fuzzier. ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/107 "2003-03-22T06:37:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cadolphin \* > \*\*22 I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great apersecution•, which continued to increase; and though I was an bobscure• boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, > \*\* What’s a ‘bobscure’?!?! ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/108 "2003-03-22T06:42:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob55 \* > \*\*What’s a ‘bobscure’?!?! \*\* A typo. drop the ‘b’. It should read “obscure”. Sorry, I should have read it before I copy/pasted it. Kathy ---
**Author:** ![Greensabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Greensabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greensabre)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/109 "2003-03-22T07:10:38Z")
bob, it’s a conspiracy against you, sorry. This is a great great thread! I’m a Mormon, too (18, just about ready to go on my mission, WEEEEE!). So I have two questions: A. If you served a Mission, where did you go? B. Is it church POLICY or DOCTRINE that women don’t have to serve a mission… actually that raises a third question C. Do men HAVE to serve a mission and are there consiquences if he doesn’t? Also I’ve heard that after some turn in their application, they are told (not based on worthiness) that they shouldn’t go. Is this true and if so do you have any (personal) accounts of such? YAYAYAY great thread gnight. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/110 "2003-03-22T08:03:06Z")
Regarding the Word of Wisdom: Someone mentioned earlier in the thread vegetarians. I’m one of the LDS who’ve made the choice to be ovo-lacto-vegetarian. Here’s an interesting site: [http://www.ldsveg.org](http://www.ldsveg.org). There are some lengthy (and I mean lengthy) discourses about scriptural support for such a choice. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/111 "2003-03-22T08:34:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Greensabre \* > \*\*bob, it’s a conspiracy against you, sorry. > > This is a great great thread! I’m a Mormon, too (18, just about ready to go on my mission, WEEEEE!). So I have two questions: > > A. If you served a Mission, where did you go? > > I did not. > B. Is it church POLICY or DOCTRINE that women don’t have to serve a mission… actually that raises a third question > > It is my understanding that women were encouraged to continue their education while the young men were serving missions. I remember when there weren’t many female missionaries, but times have changed. In those days, it seemed that the ones who did go were older (late 20s at least) and hadn’t married. > > Women are now encouraged to pray about it and give serious consideration to it if they have a desire to serve a mission. I have not heard about any policy or doctrine either way. > > But, I don’t think I’m the most qualified one here to answer these questions as my information is based on what I remember being taught and my personal observations and my interpretation thereof which might well be totally wrong. > > C. Do men HAVE to serve a mission and are there consiquences if he doesn’t? > Men have been encouraged to serve missions from the early days of the Church. I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say “consequences”… If you are asking will your family/friends/ward members be critical or judgemental. It’s been my observation that in some cases that does in fact happen. It’s sad to see. **IMHO** and that’s just what it is, my opinion, I don’t think every young man or woman is emotionally or financially or spiritually prepared to go right when he turns 19, or 21 for women, and it’s a disservice to expect everyone to fit into a “mold”. > > lso I’ve heard that after some turn in their application, they are told (not based on worthiness) that they shouldn’t go. Is this true and if so do you have any (personal) accounts of such? > > I have heard about people having those experiences and reading about them. Sometimes it’s been a matter of illness within the family or or hardships. Other times the reasons aren’t apparent, or at least not at the time. Sometimes, I’ve heard they become understood at a later date. I’d also be willing to bet that the reasoning isn’t always understood … as in never. Heavenly Father does work in mysterious ways and we don’t always see just what is going on behind the scenes so to speak. > > YAYAYAY great thread gnight. \*\* Let me say here that I really don’t think I’m the best person to be answering your questions since I haven’t been there done that so to speak. I haven’t had personal experience to draw from or that would promt me to study the subject in great detail or cause me to retain all that I have learned about it. I hope someone else will step in who is better qualified. I was looking for the answer to Question B. when I found part of the answer to Question C. so this will look like an unusual source, but it says what I’ve always heard, but then again, I was in those meeting for Women 🙂 General Women’s Meeting,” Ensign, Nov. 1986, 81 To the Young Women of the Church President Ezra Taft Benson > [@](#): > > The Lord wants every young man to serve a full-time mission. Presently only a third of the eligible young men in the Church are serving full-time missions. This is not pleasing to the Lord. We can do better. We must do better. Not only should a mission be regarded as a priesthood duty, but every young man should look forward to this experience with great joy and anticipation. > > A young man can do nothing more important. School can wait. Scholarships can be deferred. Occupational goals can be postponed. Yes, even temple marriage should wait until after a young man has served an honorable full-time mission for the Lord. > > Now, why do I mention this to you young women this evening? Because you can have a positive influence in motivating young men to serve full-time missions. Let the young men of your acquaintance know that you expect them to assume their missionary responsibilities, that you personally want them to serve in the mission field, because you know that’s where the Lord wants them. > [@](#): > > This is all the talk said about Question B:Remember, young women, you may also have the opportunity to serve a full-time mission. I am grateful my own eternal companion served a mission in Hawaii before we were married in the Salt Lake Temple, and I am pleased that I have had three granddaughters serve full-time missions. Some of our finest missionaries are young sisters. Kathy ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/112 "2003-03-22T19:44:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cadolphin \* > \*\*I’ll assume you are kidding since that’s preposterous. > \*\* Of course I was kidding. Although I wonder if Carmen is getting extra votes from the LDS community who are supporting “one of their own.” (This idea was brought up by a couple of LDS members of another board that I participate on. Because she ain’t much of a singer.) But I’m glad to see her stick around because she seems like a nice kid and doesn’t dress like a 2-bit whore. That brings up another question about Mormon underwear: You stated that it’s not necessary to wear the garments under sports gear like swimsuits and tennis dresses. Are you suposed to wear them under theatrical costumes? Also, do women wear the camisole under or over the bra? It just occurred to me: Are there any LDS celebrities, like actors or music stars? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/113 "2003-03-22T20:26:22Z")
Kathy, you may be interested in the new policies put in place at the last General Conference–they have officially ‘raised the bar’ for missionaries. [M. Russell Ballard’s talk.](http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/2002.htm/ensign%20november%202002.htm/the%20greatest%20generation%20of%20missionaries.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm%24f=templates%243.0) > [@](#): > > We don’t need spiritually weak and semicommitted young men. We don’t need you to just fill a position; we need your whole heart and soul. We need vibrant, thinking, passionate missionaries who know how to listen to and respond to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit. This isn’t a time for spiritual weaklings. We cannot send you on a mission to be reactivated, reformed, or to receive a testimony. We just don’t have time for that. We need you to be filled with “faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God” (D&C 4:5)… > > Please understand this: the bar that is the standard for missionary service is being raised. The day of the “repent and go” missionary is over. You know what I’m talking about, don’t you, my young brothers? Some young men have the mistaken idea that they can be involved in sinful behavior and then repent when they’re 18 1/2 so they can go on their mission at 19. While it is true that you can repent of sins, you may or you may not qualify to serve. It is far better to keep yourselves clean and pure and valiant… On preview, I see **Green Bean’s** questions: With theatrical costumes, I think it’s pretty much up to the person’s conscience and the production. There could easily be situations where it’s fine not to wear them; there could be others where the costuming is just plain inappropriate. For bras, women vary. Some like it under, some over. Depends, again, on what you feel is right, but I think some temple matrons tell people to wear bras over the camisoles. Gladys Knight, Steve Young, and Wilford Brimley are all LDS. There are quite a few sports players, not so many acting types. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/114 "2003-03-22T20:40:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh yeah, I want to make that clear—if the LDS God exists, I’ll accept the whole thing. If the sociopath worshipped by most exists, I’ll give him a hearty “Fuck You” as he sends me to Hell. That statement, and the following, may belong in the Great Debates, but I’m using a phone modem this I’m following your thread. Now, not only is that not respectful, it is inconsistent. Let us ignore the 3 or 4 billion or so who are not, as the Muslim’s say, “people of the book”, which is what I assume you meant. It seems pretty clear from this thread, the the Christian scriptures are Mormon scriptures. (In fact, do not Mormons categorize themselves as Christians?) It appears to be inconsistent that the Mormon God is acceptable to you, and the Christian God a sociopath. The Muslims believe JC to be a prophet, and hence accept his teachings. Their view of God is not greatly different than the Christian and Mormon God, and therefore not a sociopath from the LDS perspective. Christians view JC as the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies, and Muslims Mohommed (if I’m not mistaken) not as a retraction, so I don’t see where the Jewish God could be considered a sociopath from the LDS perspective. Pepperlandgirl, what majority do you consider to be worshiping a sociopath? I’d like to reiterate that I have tremendous respect for Mormons. I have never met such a large group so willing to let others debate their core beliefs. RC nuns and priests are the next closest I can think of. (I’m not RC either, by the way.) Does anyone have an answer to Donatist question? They believed that sacrements could only be administered by saints. I’ve always assumed that’s where the “Saints” part of LDS came from. (The RC and Orthodox position being that the position, of say bishop, provides the ability to administer sacrements.) ---
**Author:** ![PublicBlast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@PublicBlast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PublicBlast)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/115 "2003-03-22T21:55:34Z")
1. **Greensabre** , I did not serve a mission (although I had the opportunity to do so). I chose not to go because of a combination of family opposition (I’m a convert) and lack of Church support (the bishop of the particular ward I was in was unhelpful to say the least). Since then, I’ve been a faithful and (generally!) active member, and I was married in the temple. No Church consequences for me, I think. Subsequent prayer sessions have suggested to me that God isn’t that upset with me about the issue, nobody’s ever given me guff about it, and I’m not bothered by it. Wouldn’t have met my wife if I’d gone on a mission, y’know. 2. **SlowMindThinking** , I can’t vouch for **pepperlandgirl** ’s language in the thread\*, but I think I see what she’s getting at. I’m not generalizing, but I’ve met way too many Christians who have told me point blank, “ **Publicblast** , since you belong to a false Church, you are going to Hell. All your ancestors from India are already there, since they were Hindu and never accepted Jesus. Won’t you save yourself?” Again, not all Christians feel or believe this way, but some do. Gotta say, if that turns out to be the picture in the afterlife, I will enjoy the company in Hell, since most of the great folks of the world wil be there. The LDS God, in comparison, is slightly more compassionate than many Protestant sects would have it. - Language, language! [shaking finger in annoying fashion] BTW, **pepperlandgirl** , we have to have lunch if I’m ever in California–we have lots to compare notes on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PublicBlast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@PublicBlast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PublicBlast)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/116 "2003-03-22T22:17:08Z")
Curses, hit submit instead of preview. I wanted to add that one reason a lot of Christians consider LDS “non-Christian” is precisely because our eternal worldview is, in many ways, a softer and more forgiving one than mainstream Christianity. This isn’t good or bad on either side–just something that makes us different and another point of disagreement for everyone. The result is that the LDS can be stereotyped as “saving too many” and maintstream Christians can be stereotyped as “not saving enough.” Both are stereotypes, right? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/117 "2003-03-22T23:14:04Z")
**SMT** , I’ve never heard of the Donatists, but I can tell you where the word ‘saints’ in LDS comes from. The way we use it, members of Christ’s Church are saints. Thus the members of the Primitive Church in 50AD were saints, and we are the saints in the latter days. We don’t think of saints as being extra-holy people who can perform miracles, or use the RC definition of ‘saint’ as someone who can intercede with God–it’s just a term for a member of the Church. We also believe that we have the true priesthood in the Church, and that is what gives authority to bless the sacrament and baptize and so on. Not all the latter-day saints can do that, just the ones with the priesthood authority to perform the ordinance. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/118 "2003-03-22T23:18:25Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. SlowMindThinking, I can’t vouch for pepperlandgirl’s language in the thread\*, but I think I see what she’s getting at. I’m not generalizing, but I’ve met way too many Christians who have told me point blank, “Publicblast, since you belong to a false Church, you are going to Hell. All your ancestors from India are already there, since they were Hindu and never accepted Jesus. Won’t you save yourself?” Again, not all Christians feel or believe this way, but some do. Gotta say, if that turns out to be the picture in the afterlife, I will enjoy the company in Hell, since most of the great folks of the world wil be there. The LDS God, in comparison, is slightly more compassionate than many Protestant sects would have it. What he said. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/119 "2003-03-22T23:46:31Z")
How exciting, **Greensabre**! You’ll have to let us know when you get your call. I served in Korea, Taejon about ten years ago, and just loved it. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971/120 "2003-03-23T02:32:26Z")
Ok, could you talk a bit more about “Sons of Perdition” and outer darkness? Who is counted among the former? What kind of nasty nasty set of sins would one have to commit to earn this? Also, what is the current doctrine about American Indians’ relationship to the Lamanites? (that’s right, right? Spelling? Lamanites killed off the Nephites, right?) I assume it differs from the pop layman’s version I got from friends in the 70’s (which was sort of like the pop layman’s 19th century explanation of blacks as ‘sons of Ham’ or somesuch)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-mormon/162971.md?page=7)