# Ask the Neo-Pagan Guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2001, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022 "2001-04-23T18:17:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![seawitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@seawitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seawitch)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/21 "2001-04-24T23:15:36Z")
I’ll have to jump in here as another Wiccan. Lots of answers flying around here, since there is a lot of variety among pagans. Although it seems that **Hastur** , **Freyr** , and I all follow different traditions, I agree with most of their statements. (For what it’s worth, I belong to a Long Beach area eclectic Wiccan coven - working on my first degree of priesthood, which promises to be a long, hard, path. I can’t lay claim to **Freyr’s** academic credentials.) I became a Wiccan in the same way many of us seem to - I already knew what I believed as an individual, and eventually realized that I was a pagan (“heatheness hussy” to my friends). Very few of the Craft members, or followers of other pagan traditions, became involved because of magic. Folks who join a coven expecting instant levitation and fireballs are in for a disappointment, since life isn’t Hollywood. Magic is certainly real, though - it is, as **Freyr** said, a subtle thing. I think of it in terms of the subjective nature of reality - often, your world is what you believe it to be. The simplest spell I know is one people unwittingly use all the time; if you think your life sucks, it does. Change that belief, and you can change your reality. Once you realize the power is that basic, you can learn to use it in other ways. Just be careful what you wish for, for you will surely get it… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/22 "2001-04-24T23:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\*Since the “Ask a…” threads have come back with a vengence, I want to jump in with my own… > > **Ask A Neo-Pagan Guy** > > Some ground rules: > > 1. This thread is for answering questions about Neo-Paganism and all the faiths that come under that heading (Wicca, Asatru, Celtic Reconstructionism, etc). I don’t want this to turn into a thread where I defend my faith. I hold my beliefs as sincerely and deeply as you hold you. Therefore, questions like, “How can you believe something as stupid as Wicca” will be ignored. On the otherhand, questions like, “Where did Wicca come from?” will be gladly answered. \*\* Then doesn’t this really belong in General Questions or MPSIMS? I suppose there could be some debate here but it seems to me you just want a forum to answer questions. Which is cool but why do it in GD? > [@](#): > > _originally posted by robgruver_\*\* > We have faith that when we turn on our TV it will work, that our car will start or our computer will connect to the internet. \*\* I think you might be using a different definition of faith then the rest of us. If I observe that the sun rises every day, if I can figure out exactly when it will rise, I can predict exactly when it will go down, and what point in time it will be eclipsed I’d hardly call that faith. But that’s just me. Marc ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/23 "2001-04-25T00:46:13Z")
**MGibson** , I haven’t anything to say to the rest of your post, but as far as why this thread is here…ALL the “Ask the” type threads are here. just MHO - YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/24 "2001-04-25T00:51:38Z")
Actually dogsbody a few are in IMHO:) ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/25 "2001-04-25T00:55:55Z")
**Asmodean** - I never get into IMHO anymore. Guess that’s why I didn’t notice. Oh well… ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/26 "2001-04-25T03:40:25Z")
\*\*TomH wrote: Freyr, For the benefit of the ignorant: 1. Can you give a succinct explanation of what Wicca is and what Wiccans believe? Is there an equivalent of the Christain Creeds which sets out the core beliefs succinctly?\*\* There’s a joke within the Wiccan community, ask 13 Wiccans for their opinion on a subject and you’ll get 14 different responses. 😃 I’ll try to be succinct as possible about this. If any of the other Wiccans want to add or comment on my statements here, go ahead. A) A belief in polytheism or at least, duotheism. We believe in a God and a Goddess. Some even go as far to say that all Gods are one God and all Goddesses are one Goddess. B) The basic moral guideline is the Rede; “And it harm none, do what you will” Many Wiccans have gone over this one, trying to clarify it. Most arguments hinge on the meaning of the word _none_. Does _none_ mean all living things? Just humans? Higher animals? Each Coven usually hashes this out for themselves. C) A belief in magic and its ability to affect change both within one’s self and the world around us. Defining magic is the hard part. Some go with simple “Magic is change in accordance to Will” I this is most often attributed to Crowely. Bonewits give a more elaborate definition in his book, _Real Magic_. D) Connected-ness with the world around us. Many Wiccans feel that on both a physical and meta-physical level, we are intimately connected to the earth. This is contrasted with the verse from the (KJV)Bible Gensis 1:28; _And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth._ Wiccans believe we don’t have dominion over the earth but are on an equal level with all other living creatures, and our sentience gives us the responsibility to watch and care for them and the planet. There are more, but I feel these are the major points. **2. Since you raise it in the OP, where did Wicca come from?** Wicca is the creation of Gerald B. Gardener in the mid 40s and 50s of the 20th century. He rode the groundswell of interest in Paganism in England from the 19th century and created a new faith based upon the works of Margaret Murray and his own membership with the Golden Dawn. Murray’s thesis about the existence of an underground witchcult surviving from the mideval period has been proven false. Most Wiccans think of themselves as the spiritual inheritors of antique Paganism. For a more detailed history, try reading Margot Adler’s _Drawing Down the Moon_ (Beacon Press, 1986). For a really detailed history of British Wicca, try Ronald Hutton’s _Triumph of the Moon_ (Oxford Press, 1998). **3. What made you convert from Christianity to Wicca?** The main point was Christianity’s viewpoint on homosexuality. That made me leave Christianity. I later found Wicca and discovered it met my spiritual needs and accepted who I was with no reservations. In the time between leaving Christianity and coming into Wicca, I found several theological points about Christianity that I found dissatisfying; its monotheism, its idea of sin and redemption; those are the two major points of contention I have. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/27 "2001-04-25T03:44:07Z")
\*\*smaft wrote: Was it a long, emotional, “I’ll never forget you, God”, “don’t forget to write, Freyr”, waving-out-the-car-window-with-tears-streaming-down-your-face-as-you-drive-away goodbye, or did you guys just shake hands, “see ya around”, and walk away?\*\* More of the latter. No hard feelings, just deciding that the Christian path wasn’t for me. I found something better that suited me. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/28 "2001-04-25T03:47:27Z")
\*\*MGibson wrote: Then doesn’t this really belong in General Questions or MPSIMS? I suppose there could be some debate here but it seems to me you just want a forum to answer questions. Which is cool but why do it in GD?\*\* I see your point. But I thought religious discussions went here in GD. I’ll leave it to the Mods to move this thread or not. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/29 "2001-04-25T06:23:17Z")
Amazing how rude and vicious that Pit thread became. To go from a thread about demystifying paganism to defending magick(and being made fun of for spelling it magick) amazes and appalls me. It really makes me wonder if people want to learn, or just be ignorant and throw stones. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/30 "2001-04-25T06:31:02Z")
You offered to show me real “magic”. I accepted your offer. You backed out. ---
**Author:** ![Or\_n\_ry\_Oscar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Or\_n\_ry\_Oscar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Or_n_ry_Oscar)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/31 "2001-04-25T07:20:20Z")
Is there a teleological or epistemological difference between a pagan (a person wuho has no religion _or_ a person who is not a christian) and “neo-paganism”? My definitions come from Webster’s. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the fine differences between agnostic, pagan, athiest and non-believer. Can you explain? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/32 "2001-04-25T07:31:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*You offered to show me real “magic”. > I accepted your offer. > You backed out. > \*\* I don’t suppose you could elaborate. And **Freyr** , can you actually demonstrate a magical ability in anyway? I’ve got a very open mind on this issue, but I’ve yet to meet any practitioner of any form of magic who was prepared to actually demonstrate his abilities. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/33 "2001-04-25T09:36:47Z")
**Gary** - see the pit thread referenced by **jab** above for details. It became a most interesting thread. pan ---
**Author:** ![Alonist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Alonist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alonist)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/34 "2001-04-25T10:59:39Z")
Since P.E.I. Bonewits was mentioned, what is he doing these days? Did he update _Real Magic_ (not to be confused with the book of the same title by Wayne “they just keep lappin’ it up” Dyer) for the 1989 edition? I think it was first published about 1969, after Bonewits graduated with a degree in Thaumaturgy from the University of California with Ronald Reagan’s signature on the diploma. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/35 "2001-04-25T11:05:11Z")
Thanks for the response, Freyr. A couple of follow-up questions, if I may: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Freyr_ > A) … We believe in a God and a Goddess. Some even go as far to say that all Gods are one God and all Goddesses are one Goddess. I know that some practitioners of some polytheistic religions (e.g. Hinduism, Shinto) see the various Gods as different aspects of one God. Must Wiccans retain a separation between the God and Goddess, or do some believe that they are two different aspects of the same God? What is the relationship between the God and Goddess? > [@](#): > > B) The basic moral guideline is the Rede; “And it harm none, do what you will” Where does the Rede originate? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/36 "2001-04-25T13:32:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\ ***Gary** - see the pit thread referenced by **jab** above for details. It became a most interesting thread. > > pan \*\* Thank you, **Kabbes**. Having read that thread, I guess my question on actually demonstrating magic[k] has been answered. Pity. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/37 "2001-04-25T13:46:13Z")
Yeah - I had an image of **Czarchasm** floating around on a wooden chair very much like C3PO in _Return of the Jedi_, saying “Oh, Oh, put me down!” And now my dream will never come true. pan ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/38 "2001-04-25T13:47:44Z")
[dammit. **Czarcasm** was easier to _spell_ (oho) when he was **slythe**] ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/39 "2001-04-25T17:39:00Z")
\*\*Sagasumono wrote: Fontan,from what I know,has to do with Celtic Druid Rituals and drawing power from Black Holes in space. That’s the little I know about it. I found the info in a book called “Way of the Warrior” Which is a book about secrect and/or unkown martial arts.Also had soemthing intresting about Fitz Les Loo(sp) A martial art from the Arabs that redierects the opwer of an attack.\*\* Celtic Druid rituals? Hrm… where does this info come from? As far as I know, none of the druidic rituals were preserved because celtic culture was almost exclusively orally transmitted. Can you give us any more information on this? How about some details of the book _Way of the Warrior_? **What in your particular belief constitiues a “god” in other worlds what gods do you beleive in. Being a neo-pagan I assume has a beleif in the existence of MANY gods (Including the J/C/I god which actullay are three different ones when you look at it,one did have a son, One will kill you for saying he did,and one didnt have one…yet.)** Yes, most Neo-Pagans are polytheists. I say most because of people like Steward and Janet Fararr. Their book, _The WItch’s Bible_ posits the idea of only one God that is beyond having a sex. Good reading, tho some of their ideas are controversial. Within other Pagan groups, I’ve heard the Gods described as everything from Jungian archtypes of the subconsious to being real, live people. I’ve a feeling the reality lies somewhere inbetween. The point to make here is that each Pagan is generally encouraged to think thru their own beliefs and come to their own conclusions based on their own experiences. There is not a standard set of Pagan orthodoxy that one must adhere to. Surprisingly, most people’s experiences are similar enough they feel they can work together or they decide the differences are so minor that it doesn’t prevent them from working together. Or, if they wish, a person can work as a Solitaire, working completely on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022/40 "2001-04-25T17:43:14Z")
\*\*Alonist wrote: Since P.E.I. Bonewits was mentioned, what is he doing these days? Did he update Real Magic (not to be confused with the book of the same title by Wayne “they just keep lappin’ it up” Dyer) for the 1989 edition?\*\* From what I’ve heard, Bonewits is not doing that well. After heading an organization of New, Reformed Druids for a while, he has stepped down because of a debilitating illness. He’s still up and writing. I’ll try to dig out some of his material for you. His book was reprinted in '86, more than that, I don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-neo-pagan-guy/63022.md?page=3)