Ask the Neo-Pagan Guy

Great Debates
41

You belittled and insulted me. I recinded my invitation and left the thread, as I don’t feel I should have to have someone in my home who hasn’t the slightest shred of open mind or courtesy. For someone who claims they want to learn, you do a great job of making it look like all you want to do is act superior and cast aspersions.

You can drop the smug James Randi pose any time now. My recinding of the offer to meet does not mean I cannot prove myself. It means I don’t want someone in my home who is going to be a rude jerk. If I wanted that, I would call my mother.

42

You thought that I wouldn’t be able to accept your offer because you lived way over in Oregon. When I told you that I live in Portland and accept your offer on the grounds that you describe specifically what type of “magic” you would be showing me(to avoid vague generalities on what you would consider proof), you scampered away, calling me names on your way out the back door.

Why don’t you 1.give us a list of people you would find acceptable, and
2.tell us precisely what you you were going to show me(if anything at all.)

43

By the way, you seem to have this habit of telling people who ask you to prove your fantastic claims of being like James Randi. Is this because you, like Uri Geller, can never seem to come up with proof when asked, and resort to slinging accusations before running away to a sympathetic audience?

44

Gee, and now you must be positioning yourself as a psychic.
Cleo, watch out, Czarcasm is going to take over your infomercial business.

As I stated in the previous post, as well as my closing post in the Pit, I take issue with your hostility and derision. I wouldn’t have you in my house or temple. You denigrate and sneer in such a completely insulting fashion, I doubt any of us would want to have you in what we consider a sacred space.

Don’t presume that you know my thoughts or reasoning. You don’t seem to accept anything that is said, instead throwing smug assumptions as truth.

But of course, intellectually bankrupt as you are, you see it as the job of the pagans of the board to PROVE magick(and magick with a k is in the dictionary), when jab1 claimed magick isn’t real without disproving it himself, expecting his opponents to do the work for him.

If you want to meet me in person, fine. I will do coffee with you. Don’t think that because I wouldn’t want you in my temple, or my home for that matter, that it proves your point.

For someone who claims to want to learn and eradicate ignorance, I do not see your attitude being conducive to learning or teaching for that matter. You seem to have your mind made up, and screw anything which might prove otherwise. not to mention engaging in reasonable rules of debate.

Of course, now you will respond, ignore what I have said for the most part and latch on to small things I have said, take them out of context, and warp them to “prove” you are right.

45

Come on, you two, take it back to the Pit where it belongs, and leave Freyr’s thread alone. Please? :smiley:

NOTE: I am not a mod. My post above has no weight with anyone, and is only intended as a request. No offense is intended.

46

Actually, I was going to back up Czarcasm here, since Hastur has sworn off the Pit thread. But thanks to dogsbody’s well-founded plea, I think I’ll take it over there after all. Besides, that way I can put all the dirty words back into the post. :slight_smile:

47

I have to agree with dogsbody here. Fight if you want, but please do it where it belongs.

48

Hastur, I apologize.

Would you mind telling us what kind of magic you intended to show me as proof that magic does indeed exist?

49

Czarcasm, to the Pit, please…

50

Magick.

Probably a prosperity spell. But, let me guess… if it doesn’t work in a very short span of time(a few hours) you would claim it doesn’t work and thus disproves it, correct?

51

Could you be a little more specific? You said that you could prove the existance of magick, and I can’t see how a vague “You will prosper somehow in the future” spell can prove anything except that if you wait long enough, anything can happen.
If you had anything more elaborate in mind, please tell us.

52

An interesting thread. Paganism is pretty new to me, and if I unintentionally offend, let me apologize in advance.

My understanding of neo-paganism is that it’s put together out of different pieces of older religions, and some that are made up on the spot (not unlike most other religions, just that this has happened recently and is still happening.)

My question (if the above is correct,) is where does neo-paganism derive it’s power as a religion? I’m taking it, that the particular specific beleifs aren’t so important, as is the actual act of believing or faith is somehow tapping into religious power. i.e it really doesn’t matter if you drive a Honda, or a Chevy, both will get you there.

Is this correct?

53

First, a clarification. A few comments back, I mentioned to Sagasumono to read the book The Witch’s Bible, but Stewart and Janet Fararr. Mea culp, mea culpa! That should be The Witch’s Bible by Gavin and Yvonne Frost!

**TomH asked:

I know that some practitioners of some polytheistic religions (e.g. Hinduism, Shinto) see the various Gods as different aspects of one God. Must Wiccans retain a separation between the God and Goddess, or do some believe that they are two different aspects of the same God? What is the relationship between the God and Goddess?**

One of the main drawing points of Wicca, especially for women is the idea of deity as Female. In western culture, over the past thousand years, this is almost a novel concept and many women find it very empowering. Yes, Catholics observe Mary as Mother of God, but it’s always been in a subservient role. Wicca views God and Goddess as mutual, complimentary and equal. Think of it as the idea of Yin and Yang, complimentary opposites necessary for the complete Whole. Some Dianetics even take it to the opposite extreme and view deity as exclusively female.

Where does the Rede originate?

Apparently it’s Gardener’s creation. I’ve been looking thru the literature and can’t find anything specific about its history. Can someone else here help me?

**Or’n’ry Oscar asked:

Is there a teleological or epistemological difference between a pagan (a person wuho has no religion or a person who is not a christian) and “neo-paganism”? My definitions come from Webster’s. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the fine differences between agnostic, pagan, athiest and non-believer. Can you explain?**

Can you re-phrase the question abit? I’m not sure what you’re asking. What’s the difference between a Pagan and Christian? Or what’s the difference between Pagan and Neo-Pagan. That I can answer.

When I say Pagan I’m referring to a practitioner of the indiginous faiths of Europe before the coming of Christianity. As far as can be told, the people who practiced it died out after the fall of the Pagan Temples in Uppsala, Sweden in, I believe, the 12th century. When I say Neo-Pagan, I’m referring to any of the revived/recreated faiths that have started in the 20th Century. Does that help?

54

A prosperity spell, in my experience and usage, is not a “you will prosper in the future”/nebulous thing. With a concept like that of magick, no wonder you think it is some pie in the sky ordeal.

The basic concept…

First I think of what I need… Say a few hundred dollars for a new bed.

So, I write a spell focusing on the need, and giving it a time period to be fulfilled by. I generally print them out on parchment via my printer.

I light a charcoal briquette, set up my altar, light the candles, and by then the charcoal is hot. I choose an incense that I think will be appropriate… generally a prosperity incense I have made that has specific herbs and flowers.

Then I meditate and do some intonations to get centered, chant the spell, burn it, and leave the temple. I leave the candles to burn out on their own. I do something like read a book or watch television after, because the more you think about what you did, it limits it and reduces the effectiveness.

Is this explanation complete enough for you?

55

As far as I know, and I’ve done quite a bit of reading on the history of witchcraft, et al, it is Gardner who came up with that. Of course, he claimed it came from earlier sources…

56

Hastur, how does one prevent the spell-caster from arranging, before or after the fact, the arrival of said money?
Does said money have to be above and beyond what you would normally recieve?
Most importantly, why haven’t you arranged a prosperity spell for the SDMB for the purpose of buying new equipment?

57

I’m a busy college student, which is also why my posts are sporadic. I have nineteen credits and a LOT of reading to do. I come here to relax, though the relaxation isn’t part of it lately, with homophobic threads, and threads like the one in the Pit where jab1 is being vile.

Yes, said money has to be more than one would normally recieve. What would the point be if it was just the money you already knew was coming that couldn’t cover it to begin with?

Preventing the arrival of money before the fact? Sounds like a bizarre Geller like tactic, but hell… if Uri Geller wants to deposit $10,000 in my account before he does the spell, more power to him. In doing a prosperity spell, I figured the spell had to be for you to prove anything substantial. It would have to be for something you currently don’t have but need(not want). How could there be an accurate baseline if it was something so subjective as what you were suggesting?

58

Hastur:

I’m following this with interest, and I wish to be courteous. One of the problems that I see with your scenario is the following:

You cast spell for $10,000.

The next day you win $10,000 in the lottery.

In your eyes, you are clearly vindicated. In Czarcasm’s eyes it is a not statistically impossible coincidence. You might have won the money even if you didn’t cast the spell.

So, even if everything works perfectly, nobody has been satisfied (although the 10 large might be cool.)

Is there another variety of magic which is not subject to rational explanation?

Can you for example summon an entity that can speak or move objects in controlled circumstances so there can be no doubt?

Can you cause something to materialize, or transform something into something else?

I’m trying to understand what you mean by magic. Does it break the laws of physics, or do you think it merely affects probablity, i.e making something possible more probable?

What I’m asking is if your magic is tangible (Poof! a miracle) kind of magic, or more like something akin to the power of positive thinking.

59

From what I’ve understood through years of study, it works like this:

Magick is focusing on what you want to happen and making the probability of it happening a sure thing. So, through magick, you reduce the chance that it won’t happen causing a forced synchronicity.

60

Hastur, Czarcasm & Scylla, would you all mind taking this to a separate thread? What you’re discussing is the ins and outs of magic(k) while this thread is answering questions about Neo-Paganism. While the two are related, they are also distinctly separate.

Alphagene mentioned that the Pit Thread will be closed in a day or so and recommends a GD thread on just the topic you 3 are going at. Have fun!