# Ask the pacifist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006 "2013-10-11T17:45:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/41 "2013-10-11T20:00:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but what you describe sounds more like a gut reaction. I think that’s what you meant by saying its not a moral code you follow, but more like something that’s hard wired into you. > > If we can imagine for a second someone with an aversion to blood, the sight of it makes them feel faint, but otherwise has no problems with the concept of blood. Compare this guy to someone in some religion who thinks blood is vile and a sign of the devil. You’re more akin to the former rather than the latter, correct? > > If you could flip a switch and make your not have that aversion to violence, would you do it? Deep down, if its not a philosophical issue with you, then you would probably notice that in this world, violence is necessary to solve some intractable problems. Someone like you who doesn’t even consider it is at a considerable disadvantage, anecdotes aside. If you would force yourself into violence in certain situations, would you? Or does a part of you deep down feel this is a moral issue and object to violence that much that you would not make yourself capable of it even if you could? I don’t think I would flip that switch. I’ve gone 55 years without having to use violence, and I’ve learned some great negotiating methods to make up for them. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/42 "2013-10-11T20:05:27Z")
A non-fighter myself, I prefer the term pacific, “peaceful in character or intent,” to pacifism, if only because it’s an “ism” and therefore comes with a lot of political/philosophical baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/43 "2013-10-11T20:16:45Z")
**Czarcasm** - I don’t mean any offense here, but I think there’s quite a few people struggling here to understand your point of view, and your answers to quite a few of the questions are very… superficial? Cursory? Non-illuminating? I’m not sure of the right word, but I’m afraid I don’t understand your pacifism any better than I did at post number one. If you could expand a bit on your comments beyond one-sentence, very literal answers to the questions, and explore why you answer the question that way, or how you think about a certain issue? I think that would be much more informative than essentially repeating in different ways that you don’t like violence. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/44 "2013-10-11T20:21:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you think that, despite what I have written in this thread(and others), I’m just “squeamish”? Not “just” squeamish. I said that preferring non-violence to violence is morally good. But a lot of what you’re describing _is_ squeamishness. You’ve said yourself it’s not a moral position (for the most part, at least). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/45 "2013-10-11T20:22:19Z")
**Czarcasm** , do you have a child? If yes, would you do violence to protect your child from imminent harm? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/46 "2013-10-11T20:28:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Czarcasm** , do you have a child? > > If yes, would you do violence to protect your child from imminent harm? I have a child(now grown). I cannot do violence to others, period. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/47 "2013-10-11T20:29:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that one’s already been asked. You seem to suggest that while you wouldn’t use violence yourself you’re OK with others using violence on your behalf, even though you don’t like it. That’s my basic problem with pacifism, although I do find it an admirable position in some respects it unfortunately has little connection to the real world. Its like people lauding Mahatma Ghandi, sure his position was admirable but it only worked because for all their flaws the British Empire was unwilling to use the force necessary to oppose him, if Ghandi and his followers had tried peaceful resistance on the Nazi’s or Soviets they’d have steamrollered him and his followers into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/48 "2013-10-11T20:31:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Czarcasm** - I don’t mean any offense here, but I think there’s quite a few people struggling here to understand your point of view, and your answers to quite a few of the questions are very… superficial? Cursory? Non-illuminating? I’m not sure of the right word, but I’m afraid I don’t understand your pacifism any better than I did at post number one. > > If you could expand a bit on your comments beyond one-sentence, very literal answers to the questions, and explore why you answer the question that way, or how you think about a certain issue? I think that would be much more informative than essentially repeating in different ways that you don’t like violence. I apologize for the sort answers. I am at work at the present time, but I will try to expand on my answers when I get home tonight. Oh, and someone asked if I was a vegetarian. I am not…but I do enjoy a hypocrite burger once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/49 "2013-10-11T20:34:24Z")
Does it bother you that people are going to keep inventing fantastic scenarios to see if you would break your pacifism? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/50 "2013-10-11T20:36:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have a child(now grown). I cannot do violence to others, period. I do not mean to insult you, CZ, so please forgive me if I seem dismissive here. I find it difficult to believe and impossible to justify. It seems to me that, if one has a minor child – a baby especially – one’s highest duty is to protect that child’s life and safety, even if it’s at the cost of your own moral comfort. Refusal to do so seems a moral failing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/51 "2013-10-11T20:45:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I do not mean to insult you, CZ, so please forgive me if I seem dismissive here. I find it difficult to believe and impossible to justify. It seems to me that, if one has a minor child – a baby especially – one’s highest duty is to protect that child’s life and safety, even if it’s at the cost of your own moral comfort. Refusal to do so seems a moral failing to me. Not will not. Can not. Maybe it’s a mental defect. Maybe I’m a deeply flawed individual. I do know that I have never had an urge to hit someone that I had to overcome, even in the most dire of circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/52 "2013-10-11T20:46:44Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Does it bother you that people are going to keep inventing fantastic scenarios to see if you would break your pacifism? Nothing I didn’t have to face while I grew up, I assure you. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/53 "2013-10-11T20:56:10Z")
But a lack of ability doesn’t make you a pacifist. A quadriplegic is not a pacifist. If you’re willing to consider that violence may be morally required, but find yourself constitutionally incapable of it, that goes beyond squeamishness. It’s what most people would consider cowardice. Though of course I may very well be a coward myself by that definition. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/54 "2013-10-11T22:02:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nothing I didn’t have to face while I grew up, I assure you. A lot of “quit hittin’ yourself,” I imagine? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/55 "2013-10-11T22:44:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > A lot of “quit hittin’ yourself,” I imagine? oh, yeh. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/56 "2013-10-11T22:52:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am surprised that this “ask the…” hasn’t come up yet. > I am a pacifist when it comes to the deliberate harming of other sentient creatures, to the point of getting a little queasy when I see a dead squirrel by the side of the road. In my entire life I do not recall hitting anyone, in anger or even in self-defense. What does getting queasy seeing a dead squirrel have to do with pacifism? Roadkill is generally accidental, and even if intentional it’s not something you have to be a pacifist to not like. I mean, I get queasy seeing roadkill, and I’m certainly not a pacifist. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/57 "2013-10-11T23:03:20Z")
So would you say that your pacifism is more of an innate revulsion to violence, rather than a reasoned ethical position? In other words, I see a difference between what you have said and someone, who, while quite capable of doing violence, foreswears it on philosophical/ethical/religious grounds. Also, weren’t you in the Military? I certainly may be mis-remembering, and my apologies if I am, but if I am not, how did you reconcile your refusal to do violence with your military service ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/58 "2013-10-12T00:48:33Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > So would you say that your pacifism is more of an innate revulsion to violence, rather than a reasoned ethical position? In other words, I see a difference between what you have said and someone, who, while quite capable of doing violence, foreswears it on philosophical/ethical/religious grounds. > > Also, weren’t you in the Military? I certainly may be mis-remembering, and my apologies if I am, but if I am not, how did you reconcile your refusal to do violence with your military service I would say that my innate _inability_ to violence has helped guide me to develop a wider ethical stance against violence when it comes to larger issues. I spent four years in the U.S.A.F. as a crew chief for “buffs”(B-52D Stratofortress). My job was to make sure there was enough baling wire and coathangers on hand to keep it from falling out of the sky. At no time was I required to carry a weapon or to be anywhere near a situation that might require me to carry a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/59 "2013-10-12T01:01:43Z")
Wait, you actually served in the military? Sure, you didn’t carry a weapon, but your job was to help make it possible for a plane to bomb people. If you were a pacifist, you’d be a pretty weak one, but since you’re not a pacifist, I guess it doesn’t matter. I am curious why you characterize yourself as one. I’ve already used the analogy of not being pro-life simply because you don’t want an abortion, but a more apt one here might be calling yourself an anarchist because you don’t like the government and could never run for office yourself. Pacifism is a longstanding and noble (if misguided) philosophical tradition that you seem to stand apart from. So why use the term? Whatever you are (and I don’t see a need for a simple label for it) it isn’t an “-ism.” ---
**Author:** ![Banana\_Pancake\_Flipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce7236/32.png) [@Banana\_Pancake\_Flipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banana_Pancake_Flipper)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/60 "2013-10-12T01:30:39Z")
Are you sure you’re not just a pantywaist? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006.md?page=4)