# Ask the pacifist **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006 "2013-10-11T17:45:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/61 "2013-10-12T01:56:43Z")
Czarcasm, first, I find your unwillingness to hurt other creatures very admirable. More power to you. Having said that, it is impossible to live on earth without hurting and killing other creatures. Every time you walk, drive or just sit, you kill creatures too little to see or hear. Ditto when you drive your car; the carnage could be significant. Oh, you said sentient, I interpret that as “creatures capable of experiencing self-awareness.” Even this is difficult; for example, cell phone towers are known to [harm birds](http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=communication-towers-pluck-birds-13-01-29)significantly. Dont you use a mobile? If you were to give up anything that might conceivably hurt something, you’d have to be dead. It is impossible to achieve true pacifism in practice. There are religious communities in India (possibly the birth-place of pacifism) that are forbidden to wear footwear, and required to cover their mouths lest insects be drawn into them and be harmed. Even they realize they are still harming other creatures, and so are constantly praying for forgiveness, and lead a monk-lie existence. Not very suited to today’s world, IMO. I would not willingly hurt something that did not first hurt me, but I relax this rule for cockroaches. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/62 "2013-10-12T01:59:29Z")
> [@Banana\_Pancake\_Flipper](#): > > Are you sure you’re not just a pantywaist? Whatever lets you sleep at night. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/63 "2013-10-12T02:24:16Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Czarcasm, first, I find your unwillingness to hurt other creatures very admirable. More power to you. Having said that, it is impossible to live on earth without hurting and killing other creatures. Every time you walk, drive or just sit, you kill creatures too little to see or hear. Ditto when you drive your car; the carnage could be significant. > > Oh, you said sentient, I interpret that as “creatures capable of experiencing self-awareness.” > > Even this is difficult; for example, cell phone towers are known to [harm birds](http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=communication-towers-pluck-birds-13-01-29)significantly. Dont you use a mobile? > > If you were to give up anything that might conceivably hurt something, you’d have to be dead. > > It is impossible to achieve true pacifism in practice. There are religious communities in India (possibly the birth-place of pacifism) that are forbidden to wear footwear, and required to cover their mouths lest insects be drawn into them and be harmed. Even they realize they are still harming other creatures, and so are constantly praying for forgiveness, and lead a monk-lie existence. Not very suited to today’s world, IMO. > > I would not willingly hurt something that did not first hurt me, but I relax this rule for cockroaches. I just try to do the best I can in the world I live in. And I scoop up the cockroach and throw it outside. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/64 "2013-10-12T03:48:41Z")
I may be horribly wrong here but isn’t everyone in the military still required to undergo basic training including using weapons? Were you raised by parents who were of pacifistic opinion or behaviour? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/65 "2013-10-12T04:03:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I may be horribly wrong here but isn’t everyone in the military still required to undergo basic training including using weapons? > > Were you raised by parents who were of pacifistic opinion or behaviour? In U.S.A.F. basic training I spent a couple of hours total shooting at a target with a rifle. I never held a weapon after that while on duty. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/66 "2013-10-12T04:47:01Z")
If you had ever happened upon some psycho doing harm to your child, you would have fucked him up, tout suite. If I’m wrong about that, I don’t wanna be right! ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/67 "2013-10-12T05:08:45Z")
I blocked a wild swing once and broke the guys wrist. Blocking can hurt, would that bother you over much? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/68 "2013-10-12T06:38:20Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > If you had ever happened upon some psycho doing harm to your child, you would have fucked him up, tout suite. If I’m wrong about that, I don’t wanna be right! What an incredible ability you have, to know me better than I know myself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/69 "2013-10-12T06:39:23Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > I blocked a wild swing once and broke the guys wrist. Blocking can hurt, would that bother you over much? I think it would, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/70 "2013-10-12T08:22:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I would say that my innate _inability_ to violence has helped guide me to develop a wider ethical stance against violence when it comes to larger issues. I spent four years in the U.S.A.F. as a crew chief for “buffs”(B-52D Stratofortress). My job was to make sure there was enough baling wire and coathangers on hand to keep it from falling out of the sky. At no time was I required to carry a weapon or to be anywhere near a situation that might require me to carry a weapon. I find it pretty incredible that someone who would describe themselves as a pacifist actually served in the military. You may not have been participating in active duties but you were facilitating the actual or potential bombing of other people. And if that version of the B-52 is nuclear capable then that’s a _lot_ of people. I think Alan Smithee is right, you’re mischaracterising the word pacifist. I’m not a pacifist, I’m perfectly willing and capable of using violence to defend myself or others. For a long time I considered joining the RAF but for various reasons I didn’t. On graduation I was offered a job with the military mapping section of the Ministry of Defence, no one was more surprised than myself when due to a crisis of conscience I turned the position down. If I’m going to be inflicting violence I’ll do it directly, not at second-hand. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/71 "2013-10-12T09:06:40Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I am curious why you characterize yourself as one. I’ve already used the analogy of not being pro-life simply because you don’t want an abortion, but a more apt one here might be calling yourself an anarchist because you don’t like the government and could never run for office yourself. Pacifism is a longstanding and noble (if misguided) philosophical tradition that you seem to stand apart from. So why use the term? Whatever you are (and I don’t see a need for a simple label for it) it isn’t an “-ism.” I think this is the closest to my thoughts. My take of pacifism is a moral code (which I believe is naive) but whatever you are, it’s not what you are saying you are. And I say this as someone who never got into fights as a kid, and only ever hit someone when I was drunk. Obviously my squeamishness isn’t innate. But I would use force to defend either myself or my family, or someone else if needed, so it’s not absolute. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/72 "2013-10-12T10:22:45Z")
Do you think that being a pacifist, by your own definition, is a moral/right/good position under any given circumstance? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/73 "2013-10-12T12:58:32Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do you think that being a pacifist, by your own definition, is a moral/right/good position under any given circumstance? I think it is a moral/right/good position for me. The inability to do violence towards others has been with me my entire life, but extending that into a life of all-around pacifism is something that has developed over time. I served in the military over 35 years ago, and at that time I didn’t think of what I was doing as violent in nature because those old bombers were being phased out…but over the years my mindset has changed, and I wouldn’t do that job today for any amount of money. I believe that I am a pacifist not because of what I did or didn’t do in the past, but because of what I have become. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/74 "2013-10-12T13:29:32Z")
Fair enough. I don’t think you’re a pacifist now, as I understand the term, but I certainly understand that whatever you call yourself now needn’t be the same as what you were then. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/75 "2013-10-12T13:36:34Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Fair enough. I don’t think you’re a pacifist now, as I understand the term, but I certainly understand that whatever you call yourself now needn’t be the same as what you were then. In what way am I not a pacifist the way you define it? I seem to be one the way dictionaries define the term. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/76 "2013-10-12T13:42:32Z")
Can you answer Little Nemo’s question in post #37? “Are you a vegetarian?” My question: Would you say your face is skinnier than average or wider than average? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/77 "2013-10-12T13:47:16Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Can you answer Little Nemo’s question in post #37? > > “Are you a vegetarian?” Already answered: No. > [@Kable](#): > > My question: Would you say your face is skinnier than average or wider than average? How is this on-topic? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/78 "2013-10-12T14:00:01Z")
How do you justify eating meat? > [@](#): > > How is this on-topic? > **[In your face: facial metrics predict aggressive behaviour in the laboratory...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18713717/)** > > Facial characteristics are an important basis for judgements about gender, emotion, personality, motivational states and behavioural dispositions. Based on a recent finding of a sexual dimorphism in facial metrics that is independent of body size, we... So wider face or skinnier? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/79 "2013-10-12T14:09:21Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > How do you justify eating meat? > > [In your face: facial metrics predict aggressive behaviour in the laboratory and in varsity and professional hockey players - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18713717) > > So wider face or skinnier? [What do _you_ think?](http://www.flickr.com/photos/27795669@N06/3065771890/) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006/80 "2013-10-12T14:11:13Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > How do you justify eating meat? It tastes good? I can’t seem to find any dictionary definition “pacifist” that includes “vegetarian”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pacifist/671006.md?page=5)